All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

[Richter Scale]

Guess were hearing diff interviews.. hank is fed up with the offensive talent not being able to produce like they should. Hank is fed up with the defensive first system pretty clearly

Maybe so. Seriously - and I'm not trying to be a dick here - because while I've listened to a lot of Hank's post game comments, I know I've missed some. Has he actually specifically been down on the system? Or are you just reading into his comments that he is? Do you have a link to where he says this or what you're basing this off of?

 

[Ail]

Guess were hearing diff interviews.. hank is fed up with the offensive talent not being able to produce like they should. Hank is fed up with the defensive first system pretty clearly

Disagree. He's fed up with goals not going in. He's fed up with poor play in front of him. He's fed up with people not showing up and giving the effort he does nightly. None of that translates to being fed up with Torts. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I'd say you are reading in to it too much.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Names?

If you've been watching the Rangers for any length of time (current coaches tenure) you'll be able to count on one hand the players that had any ability to push the puck up ice.

With all due respect, I prefer not to get into a discussion on players that were/are no longer on the team. I don't have the energy, after watching the brand of boring hockey we play.

 

[Richter Scale]

If you've been watching the Rangers for any length of time (current coaches tenure) you'll be able to count on one hand the players that had any ability to push the puck up ice.

With all due respect, I prefer not to get into a discussion on players that were/are no longer on the team. I don't have the energy, after watching the brand of boring hockey we play.

I agree, this team doesn't have a ton of guys with consistent puck skills. But you seemed to say that they got rid of a ton of puck skill guys because Torts said so...

I've been a fan since the early 90s, and watched religiously starting after 94 -- and no, I have no clue who you're talking about. Which players have been pushed out because of Torts?

The only one that I can think you're possibly referencing is PA Parenteau... and I'll say yea, fine that was a bad call.

But if you're really also alluding to Olli Jokinen, Vinny Prospal, Drury, Avery, Wolski, Lisin, Frolov, or Christensen, then all I can do is laugh at this comment. Are those the players you're really referencing? Because those are the only players (ignoring the FA's this year which are all on Sather) who left this team while Torts was a coach. Do you really think any one of those guys would be a net benefit on this team right now?

 

[SA16]

I think each of jokinen, prospal, avery, and christensen would be helpful. jokinen/prospal/christensen in giving us that semi decent offensive threat from the third line center spot and pushing boyle to the 4th line. avery for his ability to skate, agitate, and actually contribute offensively a little bit from a bottom line role.

 

[NYR Sting]

Would it shock anyone here if Gaborik said he was tuning out Torts? He obviously wouldn't but come on. It's not that difficult to imagine. Tweet or no tweet. Gaborik looks like a shell of himself. He has no heart, no drive, and is playing tentative. What's causing that? Is he still hurt and not telling anyone? I don't think it is an injury. I just think he's had enough trying to play hockey that he is not suited for. I don't blame him.

Henrik however, I do not think he has given up on Torts yet. There is little to no indication of that.

Here's the thing. I don't think either of these players are guys who are particularly big on being coached, but for very different reason.

I imagine Gaborik tunes most coach's out. The biggest problem for Gaborik is still that he isn't playing with anyone that is capable of setting him up. Granted, he's doing nothing to help that himself, but I think he's just frustrated by that fact.

Lundqvist I don't think cares about tuning out a coach, because he gets himself up for games. He's a winner, and he cares about winning.

I'm not so sure Gaborik does.

 

[Richter Scale]

I think each of jokinen, prospal, avery, and christensen would be helpful. jokinen/prospal/christensen in giving us that semi decent offensive threat from the third line center spot and pushing boyle to the 4th line. avery for his ability to skate, agitate, and actually contribute offensively a little bit from a bottom line role.

Avery: I can see your point, but don't mind him being off the team. Not a huge fan of his game. He is a completely unnecessary distraction both on the ice and in the locker room.

Jokinen: Tell me how we fit a $4.5 million cap hit on the third line of this team.

Prospal: I'd agree that he improves the third line. But again - he has a cap hit of $2.5 million; that doesn't leave a ton of - if any - room. And regardless, he's 38. That makes this team older - and while it maybe helps for a year or two, its not the direction I'd really like to see the team head.

Christensen: Meh. He was fine in his role, but there are plenty of other players out there I'd rather see Sather pursue for a 3C role.

 

[BBKers]

Yabadabadoo. Talked to a real hockey insider today that simply said that NYR have the talent but not the coaching to be a real SC threat. The locker room is not merry. Stunning news. Let the apologists now tell me how their perfect world ofJAM somehow offsets this mind frame of reality within the real hockey world. Hank will ask for a trade sooner than later I think if this Damned caveman is still in charge... And pity on our distant cousin The Neanderthal for the comparison...

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Yabadabadoo. Talked to a real hockey insider today that simply said that NYR have the talent but not the coaching to be a real SC threat. The locker room is not merry. Stunning news. Let the apologists now tell me how their perfect world ofJAM somehow offsets this mind frame of reality within the real hockey world. Hank will ask for a trade sooner than later I think if this Damned caveman is still in charge... And pity on our distant cousin The Neanderthal for the comparison...

He's lost his team alone is reason for him to go

 

[frankthefrowner]

Realized this might be better here:

The problem with torts right now is he treats some players differently than others..

JT miller constantly does dumb stuff with the puck, throwing it up the middle, blind passes.. But never gets benched... Kreider looks at the puck the wrong way and hes riding the pine.

Richards has been brutal and he does everything he can to get him going, meanwhile Gaborik who has been crap no doubt but has been better than richie gets benched all the time.

You cant have one set of rules for some players and not for others, it causes you to lose a locker room and IMO it already has the room divided.

 

[fishman40]

Torts has to go. If simply for a coaching change to jump start the team. This team needs a spark and Torts's lighter is out of fuel.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Realized this might be better here:

The problem with torts right now is he treats some players differently than others..

JT miller constantly does dumb stuff with the puck, throwing it up the middle, blind passes.. But never gets benched... Kreider looks at the puck the wrong way and hes riding the pine.

Richards has been brutal and he does everything he can to get him going, meanwhile Gaborik who has been crap no doubt but has been better than richie gets benched all the time.

You cant have one set of rules for some players and not for others, it causes you to lose a locker room and IMO it already has the room divided.

So you mean players with a track record of success get more leeway with a coach? What a concept!?

What is your point, exactly? You want Kreider to play 20 minutes a night? Thats ****ing lunacy.

 

[JohnC]

So you mean players with a track record of success get more leeway with a coach? What a concept!?

What is your point, exactly? You want Kreider to play 20 minutes a night? Thats ****ing lunacy.

To be fair, he had no business benching Kreider over Miller last night

 

[Ail]

Here's the thing. I don't think either of these players are guys who are particularly big on being coached, but for very different reason.

I imagine Gaborik tunes most coach's out. The biggest problem for Gaborik is still that he isn't playing with anyone that is capable of setting him up. Granted, he's doing nothing to help that himself, but I think he's just frustrated by that fact.

Lundqvist I don't think cares about tuning out a coach, because he gets himself up for games. He's a winner, and he cares about winning.

I'm not so sure Gaborik does.

Agree on both accounts. Especially with Henrik.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

To be fair, he had no business benching Kreider over Miller last night

Who the **** cares? These are the small, mundane things I see every...single....day on this board like it makes some sort of difference between why this team won and why they lost. Its ridiculous.

Both those guys should be in the AHL.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Who the **** cares? These are the small, mundane things I see every...single....day on this board like it makes some sort of difference between why this team won and why they lost. Its ridiculous.

Both those guys should be in the AHL.

Kreider has been very good since he's called up, he looks like he belongs up here.

Also, people care because it was completely unfounded and he was easily the best player on the ice last night. Not really hard to understand.

 

[JohnC]

Who the **** cares? These are the small, mundane things I see every...single....day on this board like it makes some sort of difference between why this team won and why they lost. Its ridiculous.

Both those guys should be in the AHL.

We're talking the kid who registered the most shots on goal I believe vs. the kid who I'm pretty sure was responsible for one of the goals last night

I don't see why Kreider got 5 less minutes than JT.

I've wanted JT sent down for some time now but Kreider looks exponentially better since he's been back and if he keeps it up he deserves to stay

 

[Heyoooo*]

I find it odd that people are questioning Gaborik's drive and heart considering what he has done here as a player the last 3 1/2 years under Tortorella. He has done virtually everything you can think of to prove otherwise, so honestly, its 110% mind boggling to me. Flat out.

Hes hardly a Kostitsyn brother or Radulov.

Also, Gaborik's actually been skating lately. Someone else said this not long ago. The difference between Gaborik's play now and before is 100% the stat sheet.

Ive followed Gaborik very closely since he came here. Every game, in and out. I watch him more than any other player on this team. He has always floated. Always.

Youre just more fed up with it when hes not scoring because it looks like lazy effort. Its not, its just the way he plays. Hes always done it.

And in the last ~10 games, hes been moving his feet and skating hard.

 

[trilobyte]

It's not rocket surgery, people.

Hank does a great job, and yet between all those players out there, nobody can make the game competitive.

What makes people think that Henrik does not know what we do? That the team is getting a mark in the L column if Henrik lets in 2 goals?
Do you want a goaltender who takes that kind of crap repeatedly and just is happy? I don't want that.

Thanks Henrik for being so classy, but your point is not missed, not missed at all.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Who the **** cares? These are the small, mundane things I see every...single....day on this board like it makes some sort of difference between why this team won and why they lost. Its ridiculous.

Both those guys should be in the AHL.

wait, benching one of your best forwards that night is a small mundane thing when the team is having trouble scoring goals? O...K.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Who the **** cares? These are the small, mundane things I see every...single....day on this board like it makes some sort of difference between why this team won and why they lost. Its ridiculous.

Both those guys should be in the AHL.

The problem is that everyone in the locker room notices it.

A guy like Kreider will look at that and figure, hey, no matter what I do, I'm not going to get ice time until hell freezes over, so why bother?

A guy like Miller, on the other hand, may not improve because he isn't being corrected on his mistakes by continuing to get ice.

The rest of the team looks at the favorable treatment of guys like Richards and Boyle compared to their own situation and it's almost inevitable that dissention will set in. Why bother sticking up for golden boy Richards after he's hit from behind? Why bail out Boyle when he makes a bad decision on the ice? If you leave your position to bail them out and it goes wrong, you'll be the one benched instead of the golden boys. Those are the kind of thoughts that start creeping into the room. In a game where you have to make split-second decisions, that little hesitation is a killer.

Now yes, I agree, veterans in the league who have an established track record do deserve more leeway. However, when that leeway extends over half a season, you're stretching that leash too thin.



As for Gaborik, my gut instincts tell me the aftermath of the playoffs last season is what soured him. That guy was playing in one hell of a lot of pain with his shoulder, and he never complained or used it an excuse. Yet, what does Torts do, but call him out for his below-average play?! Even after the team found out about the extent of the injury, Torts didn't even give they guy any public kudos for playing through that.

Not that players need to be coddled, but it would've gone a long ways with Gabby if Torts would've given him a public pat on the back (in a manner of speaking) for being such a warrior and playing with an injury a lot of guys wouldn't have.

 

[Ail]

The problem is that everyone in the locker room notices it.

A guy like Kreider will look at that and figure, hey, no matter what I do, I'm not going to get ice time until hell freezes over, so why bother?

A guy like Miller, on the other hand, may not improve because he isn't being corrected on his mistakes by continuing to get ice.

I do not think it is as black and white as you are making it here. There are other ways to correct mistakes aside from benchings or lower ice time, even in a Torts system. Some players need "tough love" to get them going versus others who just need a pat on the back and a talking to.

Players don't see things the way fans do.

 

[Broadway Brad]

It's not rocket surgery, people.

Hank does a great job, and yet between all those players out there, nobody can make the game competitive.

What makes people think that Henrik does not know what we do? That the team is getting a mark in the L column if Henrik lets in 2 goals?
Do you want a goaltender who takes that kind of crap repeatedly and just is happy? I don't want that.

Thanks Henrik for being so classy, but your point is not missed, not missed at all.

What in the world is rocket surgery?

 

[Ail]

What in the world is rocket surgery?

Rocket science + brain surgery = ?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I do not think it is as black and white as you are making it here. There are other ways to correct mistakes aside from benchings or lower ice time, even in a Torts system. Some players need "tough love" to get them going versus others who just need a pat on the back and a talking to.

Players don't see things the way fans do.

Not saying it's black and white, but those are the kind of thoughts that tend to creep into a players' mind - especially when things aren't going well. There's a lot of negativity floating around right now, and sometimes those thoughts find a home in the brain and park there a little too long.

Of course, none of us actually know what going on or being said behind closed doors.