All Encompassing Rebuild/Tanking Thread/Tankers GDT #8

[Cor]

Last Thread Full.

No games tonight affect us, or the tank.

Just, maybe a trade happens or something

Click to read more...

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sink or swim with the kids next year...

JVR Kadri Kessel
Strome Nylander Brown
Komarov Holland Leivo
Panik Gauthier Clarkson

Rielly ______
Gardiner Granberg
Percy Holzer
Loov

Bernier
Reimer

Bozak Lupul Frason Phaneuf Santoreli Winnik Booth Polak Robidas out by the offseason! I wish Clarkson but as the saying goes "wish in one hand and **** in the other, and see which one fills up first!"

 

[Warden of the North]

Sink or swim with the kids next year...

JVR Kadri Kessel
Strome Nylander Brown
Komarov Holland Leivo
Panik Gauthier Clarkson

Rielly ______
Gardiner Granberg
Percy Holzer
Loov

Bernier
Reimer

Bozak Lupul Frason Phaneuf Santoreli Winnik Booth Polak Robidas out!

Were going to acquire some players in trades, if only to even out salary

 

[Caesium]

I'm going with Vancouver, Detroit, and Washington to win tonight so that the other teams feel more inclined to add players to help their team.

 

[Cor]

Get ready for the Auston Matthews sweepstakes. He's by far and away the best prospect heading into the 2016 draft. Played great as a 17 year old for the US at this year's WJHC. He's a C too. I really expect the Leafs to be right there as a contender for him next year.

I really like Jakob Chychrun too.

I'm thinking Sean Day will get his name back into the race next season also.

 

[613Leafer]

Obviously we'd prefer to get McEichel, Hanifan, or one of Marner/Strome. But I'll still be happy with one of Barzal/Provorov/Werenski/Kylington/etc, as long as we're adding a substantial number of picks in the top 60 via other moves.

Franson should definitely get us a 2nd rounder+ at minimum, maybe a late 1st. Santorelli can probably get us a 2nd. Both Phaneuf and Kessel should be able to get us 1st rounders as part of larger packages. Bozak should be able to get us a 2nd rounder+ (his value is dropping, he could have gotten us a 1st a month or so ago IMO), and Lupul might be able to get us a 2nd rounder+ if we took back some salary.

Theoretically, we could add ~six picks in the first two rounds, along with some other pieces in Kessel/Phaneuf packages, while also shedding a crap ton of salary. Ideally we could get a top 3-5 pick while doing that, I just don't want to see us draft ~7th OA and then hold onto the majority of this core, followed by yet another half-hearted retool of the depth positions.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Again, why do people think Kessel will be on this team next season? We need a culture change.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Again, why do people think Kessel will be on this team next season? We need a culture change.

Bozak Lupul Franson Phaneuf isnt enough?

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

I really like Jakob Chychrun too.

I'm thinking Sean Day will get his name back into the race next season also.

Yup. He's the guy that the Leafs should pick.. big potential as an elite D man.

 

[Tak7]

Again, why do people think Kessel will be on this team next season? We need a culture change.

Why do people think Kessel isn't going to be here?

You can change a culture of the dressing room without getting rid of one of the league's elite talents. If this team is serious about a change, there are a number of other players that can, and will, be moved before Kessel.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Bozak Lupul Franson Phaneuf isnt enough?

The core needs to be dismantled. Period. He needs to go, as well.

 

[Leafidelity]

I was inspired to make this after last night

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Hahaha. The guy tells like it is.

 

[613Leafer]

Why do people think Kessel isn't going to be here?

You can change a culture of the dressing room without getting rid of one of the league's elite talents. If this team is serious about a change, there are a number of other players that can, and will, be moved before Kessel.

Teams often take on the same philosophy of their best players. Kessel is a floater that doesn't fight for loose pucks, doesn't backcheck regularly, cherry picks to escape our zone way earlier than he should be to receive a risky outlet pass from his linemates, doesn't skate hard in the defensive zone, etc.

The Leafs need a major retool. Even if we held onto Kessel, and traded Phaneuf/JVR/Bozak and our pending UFAs, we'd probably be several years away from pushing for the playoffs again. I don't think there's much point in holding onto Kessel through that, as he'll be ~30+ at the time.

Especially given that he literally does none of the little things or good work habits that you want your young players to start adapting into their games. His skill level is absolutely elite, but that's all he has to his game.

 

[GoonieFace]

Why do people think Kessel isn't going to be here?

You can change a culture of the dressing room without getting rid of one of the league's elite talents. If this team is serious about a change, there are a number of other players that can, and will, be moved before Kessel.

Nope, he needs to go as well. Do you want a chubby, lazy, uninspired loser on a rebuilding team? Nope. By the time they are ready to contend, the chocolate chip cookie and wagon wheel diet will catch up to Phil. Time to trade him now, while his value is still high.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

The whole "Leafs play better without KESSEL" debate... May ring true; after watching last night's game why didn't he show up? That whole line look uninspired. They don't want to be here so let them go.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Why do people think Kessel isn't going to be here?

You can change a culture of the dressing room without getting rid of one of the league's elite talents. If this team is serious about a change, there are a number of other players that can, and will, be moved before Kessel.

No, screw that. Kessel represents everything wrong with this team. He's not held accountable, he's entitled, and he's lazy. He doesn't take fitness seriously, gives no effort on defense and regardless of how poorly he plays he doesn't have to worry about his job or his ice time going down.

We don't need Phil Kessel to be this teams veteran that players look up to. For everything he represents, the Leafs need to cut their losses and trade him. Get good assets back for a rebuild. Yeah he'll score a lot, but he'll be on for far more goals against than he'll be on for.

Kessel would be wasting his prime years on a rebuilding Toronto team, and with his lack of conditioning most likely won't be the player we know today by the time we're ready to compete.

No half-assed measures. Tear it all down. This core needs to be gutted.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I have a feeling that a culture change would never be complete with Kessel still here. He's just a too influential player and I doubt he is going to change.

 

[General Borschevsky]

Interesting story in the Star this morning from Bruce Arthur.

Clarkson was signed the summer after the Leafs lost in seven games to Boston, which some senior members of the organization now openly call “the worst thing to happen to this franchise,†because the playoff loss perpetuated false hope. Now, there is no argument: this will be torn down to the foundation.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/02/10/maple-leafs-finally-coming-down-from-false-hope-arthur.html

Who knows how accurate this is, but this is the clearest indication as to their plans that I've seen.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It is becoming clear to me, the most important person in the Leafs Organization is Mark Hunter.

If Leafs are a rebuild by draft organization now. Then Hunter is the MVP right now of the entire organization.

Is this a bad thing? Not if you look at his drafting history from the Priority drafts in the OHL.

IE he picked Marner as the last pick in the first rd and Werenski in the 2nd rd in the 2013 draft. This indicates to me, he does have a good set of eyes for talent.

Give him more picks, turn this team around in 2 or 3 drafts. If we are truly on the path of patient rebuilding.

 

[Drew311]

Again, why do people think Kessel will be on this team next season? We need a culture change.

Still have to find the right deal. They won't just give Kessel away for a 2nd + prospect because the organization needs a culture change.

I'm sure Shanny is well aware of how gutless Kessel has played this year and would like to move him. Problem is if the Leafs don't get fair value for him the rebuild will be a lot longer and more difficult to turn around.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Interesting story in the Star this morning from Bruce Arthur.



http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/02/10/maple-leafs-finally-coming-down-from-false-hope-arthur.html

Who knows how accurate this is, but this is the clearest indication as to their plans that I've seen.

Oh man, how accurate that quote is. The 48 game season is the worst thing that could've happened to this team. Had it been a full 82 game season, the Leafs probably flop as usual and miss the playoffs, and management has an easier time tearing it down and trading our players, as Kessel and Phaneuf to become UFA's the season after.

Smoke and mirrors man. That was a fun season to watch mind you, but the long term ramifications that have spawned from it really sting. Game 7 is also a memory I wish never happened, to the point I wish we were trounced in 5 instead of going down the way we did. At least that way maybe management doesn't think so highly of this core afterwards.

 

[roosterman]

Sink or swim with the kids next year...

JVR Kadri Kessel
Strome Nylander Brown
Komarov Holland Leivo
Panik Gauthier Clarkson

Rielly ______
Gardiner Granberg
Percy Holzer
Loov

Bernier
Reimer

Bozak Lupul Frason Phaneuf Santoreli Winnik Booth Polak Robidas out by the offseason! I wish Clarkson but as the saying goes "wish in one hand and **** in the other, and see which one fills up first!"

A couple of comments...

1) I hope to god we are rebuilding and part of that is to ensure you do not rush the kids. Strome, Nylander, Gaut, Percy, Loov, Leivo, etc. should not be on this team next year unless they earn it. Let them learn / grow and win for the Marlies. It pains me to even see Reilly answering media questions at the end of each game. After trading Phaneuf, Lupul, Bozak, etc. we need to replace with reasonably priced free agents. Signing the next Santa and Winnik are also good strategies.

2) Kessel needs to go in the summer and hopefully for one blue chip prospect (Jones, etc.)

 

[SprDaVE]

I was inspired to make this after last night

You've won the internet for the day.

 

[Mess]

This team has lost 20 of their last 24 games without roster changes.

These are ideal results for tanking desires with the hopes that weakening the roster by trading your most effective players Santorelli, Winnik, Franson for futures can only help the situation.