Speculation: All-encompassing Draft Thread

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[Peat]

Aka the "What's the best value trade bait we can pick/best overagers we can pick later on" thread

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Aka the "What's the best value trade bait we can pick/best overagers we can pick later on" thread

If we lose against the Habs, I hope it becomes the "OMG OMG OMG WE GOT LAFFY!" thread.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

If we lose against the Habs, I hope it becomes the "OMG OMG OMG WE GOT LAFFY!" thread.

But we already have Laffy.





Byfield or Cup!

 

[Peat]

If we lose against the Habs, I hope it becomes the "OMG OMG OMG WE GOT LAFFY!" thread.

Well, yeah. Probably one in a hundred odds even if we lose, but damn it'd be fun to see.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

But we already have Laffy.





Byfield or Cup!

Ok, ok

"OMG OMG OMG, WE GOT A BRAND NEW FRENCH CANADIAN HERO... someone please check on SdeJ"

 

[Gurglesons]

Byfield would make this team so god damn good.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Byfield would make this team so god damn good.

How so? He is very raw. A Joe Thornton type of rookie season is very likely. By the time Byfield's game grow enough to be a superstar, Sid and Geno will be out.

And, where do you play him? 3C? With next to no prime offensive time?

 

[Peat]

How so? He is very raw. A Joe Thornton type of rookie season is very likely. By the time Byfield's grow enough to be a superstar, Sid and Geno will be out.

And, where do you play him? 3C? With next to no prime offensive time?

My guess is Pixies would suggest using Sid to take match up duty to create soft assignments for him.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

My guess is Pixies would suggest using Sid to take match up duty to create soft assignments for him.

Sure, but you do that to exploit weaker match ups with Geno.

Byfield would not get offensive wingers while Sid and Geno are there.

 

[The Old Master]

How so? He is very raw.

upside, upside. and more upside

 

[Scandale du Jour]

upside, upside. and more upside

Yeah, but lower floor. High bust potential (for a top 5 pick, not more likely to fail than succeed).

He has huge upside (if the mental side of his game improves, with the raw skills he has, watch out), but I do not see him as an immediate contributor. Not as bad as Kotkaniemi, but in the same mold. Younger player (he does not turn 18 until August), big, fast, good hands, raw game.

He might need some seasoning in the minors. Problem is, he is a CHLer, so it is CHL or NHL for him. If we were rebuilding, sure, play him in the NHL and let him have growing pains. But for us? If we were to miraculously get the 2nd overall pick, I'd pick someone else or find someone who REALLY wants him and move down a few spot and still grab a player with similar value.

If we get 1st overall though... Lafrenière all the way. Plug and play player. One of the oldest in the draft class. Very mature game. Super high hockey IQ. Uses his teammates well. Gets open. Uses angles to create space for other players. Strong down low. Sid would LOVE playing with him. Hossa-like player.

Lafrenière - Sid - Whoever can carry a stick
Jake - Geno - Rust

Now, that's top 6

But, hey, we aren't getting either so!

 

[Peat]

Sure, but you do that to exploit weaker match ups with Geno.

Byfield would not get offensive wingers while Sid and Geno are there.

I think there's enough ice time to go around to give that to both Geno and Byfield if desired, although I'd also argue that Geno responds best to getting tough match-ups and hard assignments himself.

The issue about the wingers is a bigger one. I guess you could have one of Jake, Rust and Zucker on each line, but then we do have the complimentary wingers needed?

In this incredibly speculative scenario, I think I'd stick Jake with Byfield. Zucker-Crosby and Malkin-Rust both seem to function well (at least in good form) without him, and his IQ makes him the ideal guy to guide around a not completely high IQ rookie. If everything was working perfectly that'd be a hell of a unit, but I think it's a little too dependent on everything going right. Not to mention that doesn't just seem to be the desired way anymore.

 

[The Old Master]

Yeah, but lower floor. High bust potential (for a top 5 pick, not more likely to fail than succeed).

He has huge upside (if the mental side of his game improves, with the raw skills he has, watch out), but I do not see him as an immediate contributor. Not as bad as Kotkaniemi, but in the same mold. Younger player (he does not turn 18 until August), big, fast, good hands, raw game.

He might need some seasoning in the minors. Problem is, he is a CHLer, so it is CHL or NHL for him. If we were rebuilding, sure, play him in the NHL and let him have growing pains. But for us? If we were to miraculously get the 2nd overall pick, I'd pick someone else or find someone who REALLY wants him and move down a few spot and still grab a player with similar value.

If we get 1st overall though... Lafrenière all the way. Plug and play player. One of the oldest in the draft class. Very mature game. Super high hockey IQ. Uses his teammates well. Gets open. Uses angles to create space for other players. Strong down low. Sid would LOVE playing with him. Hossa-like player.

Lafrenière - Sid - Whoever can carry a stick
Jake - Geno - Rust

Now, that's top 6

But, hey, we aren't getting either so!

there are always risks...you do need to try to lessen them as much as possible. as for getting one of them, ya, we have a much better chance at getting the cup.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I think there's enough ice time to go around to give that to both Geno and Byfield if desired, although I'd also argue that Geno responds best to getting tough match-ups and hard assignments himself.

The issue about the wingers is a bigger one. I guess you could have one of Jake, Rust and Zucker on each line, but then we do have the complimentary wingers needed?

In this incredibly speculative scenario, I think I'd stick Jake with Byfield. Zucker-Crosby and Malkin-Rust both seem to function well (at least in good form) without him, and his IQ makes him the ideal guy to guide around a not completely high IQ rookie. If everything was working perfectly that'd be a hell of a unit, but I think it's a little too dependent on everything going right. Not to mention that doesn't just seem to be the desired way anymore.

I mean, that's not a bad take at all. Makes sense.

However, I'd say my bigger issue is role.

Byfield is a raw player, cannot expect him to play the PK at 18 (a very young 18). So how do you get his minutes up? He clearly won't have PP1 time with Sid and Geno on the team. PP2, cool. Maybe even the ES minutes between Sid, Geno and him. Sid and Geno are old after all.

I mean, it COULD work. And it might be the best situation (room-wise) for a guy like Byfield to develop in. Sheltered minutes, great leaders around him, guys that have won. So yeah, maybe the risk is not that high. But, I dunno. I'd prefer a Drysdale.

 

[The Old Master]

I mean, that's not a bad take at all. Makes sense.

However, I'd say my bigger issue is role.

Byfield is a raw player, cannot expect him to play the PK at 18 (a very young 18). So how do you get his minutes up? He clearly won't have PP1 time with Sid and Geno on the team. PP2, cool. Maybe even the ES minutes between Sid, Geno and him. Sid and Geno are old after all.

I mean, it COULD work. And it might be the best situation (room-wise) for a guy like Byfield to develop in. Sheltered minutes, great leaders around him, guys that have won. So yeah, maybe the risk is not that high. But, I dunno. I'd prefer a Drysdale.

not a bad choice either

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just from what little I've seen from Byfield and Stutzle (WJC and draft videos), I'd probably go with Stutzle if we somehow ended up with the #2 pick.

Byfield has the size, tools, and age, but Stutzle seems lot more dynamic. Plus Stutzle seems to kill it from the left half boards on the PP despite being a LH shot. Looks very comfortable there.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, but lower floor. High bust potential (for a top 5 pick, not more likely to fail than succeed).

He has huge upside (if the mental side of his game improves, with the raw skills he has, watch out), but I do not see him as an immediate contributor. Not as bad as Kotkaniemi, but in the same mold. Younger player (he does not turn 18 until August), big, fast, good hands, raw game.

He might need some seasoning in the minors. Problem is, he is a CHLer, so it is CHL or NHL for him. If we were rebuilding, sure, play him in the NHL and let him have growing pains. But for us? If we were to miraculously get the 2nd overall pick, I'd pick someone else or find someone who REALLY wants him and move down a few spot and still grab a player with similar value.

If we get 1st overall though... Lafrenière all the way. Plug and play player. One of the oldest in the draft class. Very mature game. Super high hockey IQ. Uses his teammates well. Gets open. Uses angles to create space for other players. Strong down low. Sid would LOVE playing with him. Hossa-like player.

Lafrenière - Sid - Whoever can carry a stick
Jake - Geno - Rust

Now, that's top 6

But, hey, we aren't getting either so!

I mean, Byfield would be a long term thing for sure. But, Crosby and Malkin for the next two years would be fine and then you'd have a franchise center to insert as Malkin and Sid start to age out. It'd be insane to not take him tbh if we have the second overall.

And as @Peat always points out, if he isn't hitting the areas we want him to, he'd be an asset.

 

[Peat]

Gotta say that in terms of the next 2-3 years, trading down from 2 if we somehow landed there, or taking a guy who can definitely play W and maybe play C (i.e. Stutzle), is probably the smarter move. Byfield would work and make us stronger, but I think the other options have the edge.

The Byfield appeal comes after that when you start thinking about the post-Crosby/Malkin age.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I mean, Byfield would be a long term thing for sure. But, Crosby and Malkin for the next two years would be fine and then you'd have a franchise center to insert as Malkin and Sid start to age out. It'd be insane to not take him tbh if we have the second overall.

And as @Peat always points out, if he isn't hitting the areas we want him to, he'd be an asset.

I agree with the analysis, disagree with the conclusion. My conclusion is similar to:

Gotta say that in terms of the next 2-3 years, trading down from 2 if we somehow landed there, or taking a guy who can definitely play W and maybe play C (i.e. Stutzle), is probably the smarter move. Byfield would work and make us stronger, but I think the other options have the edge.

The Byfield appeal comes after that when you start thinking about the post-Crosby/Malkin age.

This is what I think. Move done a few spots, get a better fit + other assets. Lafrenière is the clear cut #1. After that, it becomes less clear. Byfield used to be the consensus #2, but he seems to be sliding a little.

Great prospect, but his red flags are a little bigger than other people's (rumored laziness, raw game, dominates because he is a man in a boys league). At #2, you would as close a "ready to contribute now" player as possible. As I pointed out already, I am a huge Drysdale fan and think he could play the third pair right away and be our Letang replacement pretty quickly. Then again, he would likely be available at 5. So you move down and get more assets.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Hypothetically if the Pens drafted Byfield, I'd let him marinate in the OHL for the 20-21 season (if it exists) -- unless he forces his hand into the NHL. Then, if he's able to play in WBS in 21-22 (I forget the rule and his age), have him there. And reward him with a few NHL games here and there. Perhaps even have him try out some wing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Given our window, I'd go Lafrenière, if we got him. But if we make it into the playoffs, what picks do we have (since the 1st would be gone)?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Hypothetically if the Pens drafted Byfield, I'd let him marinate in the OHL for the 20-21 season (if it exists) -- unless he forces his hand into the NHL. Then, if he's able to play in WBS in 21-22 (I forget the rule and his age), have him there. And reward him with a few NHL games here and there. Perhaps even have him try out some wing.

He was atrocious on the wing during the WJC. But he is 17 and it is a very difficult tournament to dominate at such a young age. Even Crosby and McDavid did not DOMINATE at that age. Bergeron and Domi were the guys who were dominant when Sid and Connor won gold. Lafrenière was dominant this year, but he turned 18 in October. He is nearly a FULL year older than Byfield. At that stage of their development, it counts.

Byfield would only be eligible to play in the AHL once his 21-22 OHL season is over. They need to change that rule. A player like Byfield would waste his time in juniors and, yet, him playing the NHL right away might not be the best solution. I guess a shitty team that won't compete does not really care if it has to develop him at the NHL level, but even then, it is not optimal. A culture of losing is a tough thing to overcome...

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Given our window, I'd go Lafrenière, if we got him. But if we make it into the playoffs, what picks do we have (since the 1st would be gone)?

Window or not, if we have the 1st pick, there is no debate. Lafrenière is the clear-cut #1.

Very high upside, VERY high floor. Two-way playmaking winger with some grit (think Hossa) who can also score. Basically, a center who plays the wing.

Of course, a big strong center like Byfield is difficult to ignore. But he is way too raw and as a much lower floor.

In the 1990s, Byfield would probably go first. Now, with the cap and the way the game is played, you need immediate production from your ELC guys. Especially teams like us that are contending, especially if by some miracle we get a high pick. We need to be able to plug cheap young players in the lineup and have them contribute. Lafrenière would be the perfect player for our forward needs. He is the quintessential Sid player... with way more skills. Sid could win another Richard playing with a guy like Lafrenière. Lafrenière opens SO much space for his linemates. The way he creates passing lane by moving his body is very impressive. Not many players do it... especially not at 18. Sid would LOVE him.

Lafrenière - Crosby - Guy who is good in the corners and plays good defense (match up line)
Guentzel - Geno - Rust (feast on L2s and second pairings)

That's like 2 top 10 lines in the league.

But, hey, that's a pipe dream, we ain't getting Laffy

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree with the analysis, disagree with the conclusion. My conclusion is similar to:



This is what I think. Move done a few spots, get a better fit + other assets. Lafrenière is the clear cut #1. After that, it becomes less clear. Byfield used to be the consensus #2, but he seems to be sliding a little.

Great prospect, but his red flags are a little bigger than other people's (rumored laziness, raw game, dominates because he is a man in a boys league). At #2, you would as close a "ready to contribute now" player as possible. As I pointed out already, I am a huge Drysdale fan and think he could play the third pair right away and be our Letang replacement pretty quickly. Then again, he would likely be available at 5. So you move down and get more assets.

I haven’t seen any of these criticisms and most I’ve listened to say Byfield has potential to be better than Lafreniere.

The rumored laziness / attitude BS also comes off as coy racism from scouts tbh.