GDT: All Encompassing 4 Nations Discussion.

[Mike Liut]

Marner might had made a nice pass to set up the game winner, but I’m not that impressed with him in these type of games. Same with Mathews. I’d want no part of either with those upcoming contracts.

 

[LogosBlue]

I made a prediction a few months ago, Binnington leads Canada to gold here and gets dealt before the deadline.

If I'm Doug Armstrong, I'm burning up the phone because Binny's stock is never going to be higher. Unfortunately I don't see another playoff run in this team while he's still here.

This was exactly what i was thinking too to the T. I didn't predict it months ago but during this tournament that was my overall thought.

 

[LogosBlue]

The Olympics are the only 1s I personally care about. I thought this was going to just be a gimmick money maker tourney. And to be fair it was but still provided great playoff like hockey.

I 100% expect the league to run it into the ground now like they have done with the winter classic.

1000 X better than the all star "gimmick" they had been running lately. I used to be excited for the all star skills competition/game but for the last 5-10 (Kane era) years i didn't even tune in. Much better all around hockey with this 4 nations format.

 

[TheDizee]

Marner might had made a nice pass to set up the game winner, but I’m not that impressed with him in these type of games. Same with Mathews. I’d want no part of either with those upcoming contracts.

Shame with Matthews. He had a great game until OT.

 

[Mike Liut]

Shame with Matthews. He had a great game until OT.

I’m not a fan of either

 

[Brian39]

Not really. He is a streaky and inconsistent goalie who overall can't consistently give you enough to justify his salary. Mostly he's a dick. He was who he we thought he was this tournament. Over a longer series, his .892 save percentage would have sunk them.

Binner's tournament SV% was .907. You don't get to remove his best game (an elimination game in this tournament and what would have been game 4 in an actual playoff series) from the equation if you want to argue that his SV% would have sunk them in a longer series. Especially since his trend in our Cup run was to keep stepping his game up as our series went deep. Here are his SV% splits in the 2019 Cup run:

Winnipeg: .880 in games 1-3 and then .933 in game 4-6

Dallas: .915 in games 1-3 and then .928 in games 4-7

San Jose: .854 in games 1-3 and then .974 in games 4-6

Boston: .873 in games 1-3 and then .937 in games 4-7

Binner's performance in this tournament was absolutely not support for the argument that he would sink a playoff team. It was exactly in line with the goalie who backstopped our team to a Cup in 2019. He is not the best goalie in the world. Over large samples he is not a top 5 goalie in the world and he goes big stretches where he is outside the top 10. He does have consistency issues and in a 7 game series is very likely to have a clunker or two. But he also has an extremely high top gear and has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to get to that gear when his team most needs it and that is exactly what we saw in this tournament. He is very much a top 10 and arguably a top 5 goalie when he is at his highest gear.

Your insistence in ignoring his strengths completely undercuts the valid criticism you have of Binner. I'm not as big of a Binner fan as the large majority of Blues fans. I very much see an argument to trade him in the next few weeks given the overall state of our franchise, his age, and his contract term. But your level of hatred for him is very much blinding you to his strengths and is reaching the point of absurdity.

Binner was the largest reason Team Canada won last night. Full stop. He outplayed the best goalie in the world and made a number of game-saving stops. He brought his best when it mattered most, which has been exactly what his supporters argue is his biggest strength for years now. You can't just close your eyes and plug your ears to that reality.

 

[Louie the Blue]

Not really. He is a streaky and inconsistent goalie who overall can't consistently give you enough to justify his salary. Mostly he's a dick. He was who he we thought he was this tournament. Over a longer series, his .892 save percentage would have sunk them.

He isn’t a streaky and inconsistent goalie. He’s largely put up fairly consistent average numbers or his numbers have been negatively impacted due to the quality of players in front of him save for 2021-2022 and 2023-2024.

Extrapolating a sample of 3 games to a full series is disingenuous.

 

[Majorityof1]

Binner's tournament SV% was .907. You don't get to remove his best game (an elimination game in this tournament and what would have been game 4 in an actual playoff series) from the equation if you want to argue that his SV% would have sunk them in a longer series. Especially since his trend in our Cup run was to keep stepping his game up as our series went deep. Here are his SV% splits in the 2019 Cup run:

Winnipeg: .880 in games 1-3 and then .933 in game 4-6

Dallas: .915 in games 1-3 and then .928 in games 4-7

San Jose: .854 in games 1-3 and then .974 in games 4-6

Boston: .873 in games 1-3 and then .937 in games 4-7

Binner's performance in this tournament was absolutely not support for the argument that he would sink a playoff team. It was exactly in line with the goalie who backstopped our team to a Cup in 2019. He is not the best goalie in the world. Over large samples he is not a top 5 goalie in the world and he goes big stretches where he is outside the top 10. He does have consistency issues and in a 7 game series is very likely to have a clunker or two. But he also has an extremely high top gear and has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to get to that gear when his team most needs it and that is exactly what we saw in this tournament. He is very much a top 10 and arguably a top 5 goalie when he is at his highest gear.

Your insistence in ignoring his strengths completely undercuts the valid criticism you have of Binner. I'm not as big of a Binner fan as the large majority of Blues fans. I very much see an argument to trade him in the next few weeks given the overall state of our franchise, his age, and his contract term. But your level of hatred for him is very much blinding you to his strengths and is reaching the point of absurdity.

Binner was the largest reason Team Canada won last night. Full stop. He outplayed the best goalie in the world and made a number of game-saving stops. He brought his best when it mattered most, which has been exactly what his supporters argue is his biggest strength for years now. You can't just close your eyes and plug your ears to that reality.

I did not intend to remove a game. I pulled the stats from a website after the game, and the site had not updated yet.

I don't ignore his strengths. I have said multiple times he is a good goalie who can rise to the occasion. When he is on, he is a top 5 goalie in the world. Last year he should have gotten a Vezina nom or been in the conversation at least. That competitive fire and chip on his shoulder that lets him rise to the occasion is a double-edged sword. And when he is not totally locked in, he has large swaths of sub-par play. Likewise, when he gets too fired up, he goes on tilt and plays terribly. He has to maintain a razors edge. He would be a great goalie for a strong team who can get him into those big games consistently. That's not us right now and probably is not over the rest of his contract.

Also, I don't think that justifies a $6M price tag. I don't like spending big on goalies. I think you are better served with a slightly above average goalie at slightly above league average pay, then a great goalie at top end goalie pay scale. I think the ROI on cap is higher on skaters than goalies. This last 4-nations game illustrates that. The team with the worse goalie won, because they had the better skaters. Hellebuyck, Shesterkin, Lundqvist, Price, these guys have never lifted the cup.

People ignore the acknowledgement of I give Binnington's strength because my opinions of him as a human are so inflammatory and I am one of the few on here willing to critique his playing. I am not inflammatory to get a rise out of posters (most of the time). I just actually think he is a horrible person, and it pisses me off that he is on my favorite team in all of sports. You are right, though, it does a disservice to my argument. Here's the thing though. I don't care. I'm not going to convince people, so why should I temper my dislike?

 

[Brian39]

I did not intend to remove a game. I pulled the stats from a website after the game, and the site had not updated yet.

I don't ignore his strengths. I have said multiple times he is a good goalie who can rise to the occasion. When he is on, he is a top 5 goalie in the world. Last year he should have gotten a Vezina nom or been in the conversation at least. That competitive fire and chip on his shoulder that lets him rise to the occasion is a double-edged sword. And when he is not totally locked in, he has large swaths of sub-par play. Likewise, when he gets too fired up, he goes on tilt and plays terribly. He has to maintain a razors edge. He would be a great goalie for a strong team who can get him into those big games consistently. That's not us right now and probably is not over the rest of his contract.

Also, I don't think that justifies a $6M price tag. I don't like spending big on goalies. I think you are better served with a slightly above average goalie at slightly above league average pay, then a great goalie at top end goalie pay scale. I think the ROI on cap is higher on skaters than goalies. This last 4-nations game illustrates that. The team with the worse goalie won, because they had the better skaters. Hellebuyck, Shesterkin, Lundqvist, Price, these guys have never lifted the cup.

People ignore the acknowledgement of I give Binnington's strength because my opinions of him as a human are so inflammatory and I am one of the few on here willing to critique his playing. I am not inflammatory to get a rise out of posters (most of the time). I just actually think he is a horrible person, and it pisses me off that he is on my favorite team in all of sports. You are right, though, it does a disservice to my argument. Here's the thing though. I don't care. I'm not going to convince people, so why should I temper my dislike?

I don't think his overall play (good and bad) justified his price tag early in the deal. He was either the 6th or 7th highest paid goalie in the league for the first 3 years of the deal. In each of those seasons there were only 3 guys making more than $7M and 10 or fewer guys making $5.5M. So $6M put him in a tier where he had to be a clear top 10 goalie (and pushing toward top 5) to justify the AAV. But this year he is 9th in AAV and there are 6 guys making $8M+. There are currently 11 goalies set to have a higher AAV than him next season with 9 guys making $8M+. 14 guys are currently set to make $5.5M+ and there are 19 guys making $5M+.

We have reached the point where Binner's $6M is significantly closer to slightly above average pay than it is to the top end of the goalie pay scale.

I also think it is well worth noting that Bob and Vasi are the 2 highest paid active goalies in the league and have won 3 of the last 4 Cups. And while Helly is a better goalie overall, Binner was the better goalie last night. You can never predict with certainty which goalie will play better in any given game, but Binner's ability to be the better goalie in the games that matter most is exactly why people argue that he deserves the contract despite other guys being the better goalie more often.

I think we have reached a point where being a "money" goalie in big games while being inconsistent throughout a season is worth $6M against the cap. Maybe not for our team who needs more to make the playoffs, but I think it is absolutely worth it for a team constructed well enough to make the team.

 

[Jetland162702]

I dont know if USA saw the same post game interview with Binnington as we saw in Canada but I suspect you did. He was humble and appreciative of being given the opportunity and even though he was asked some provocative questions, he did not take the bait.

And yes, he should have been Canada's player of the game without a doubt.

 

[Drubilly]

I don't think his overall play (good and bad) justified his price tag early in the deal. He was either the 6th or 7th highest paid goalie in the league for the first 3 years of the deal. In each of those seasons there were only 3 guys making more than $7M and 10 or fewer guys making $5.5M. So $6M put him in a tier where he had to be a clear top 10 goalie (and pushing toward top 5) to justify the AAV. But this year he is 9th in AAV and there are 6 guys making $8M+. There are currently 11 goalies set to have a higher AAV than him next season with 9 guys making $8M+. 14 guys are currently set to make $5.5M+ and there are 19 guys making $5M+.

We have reached the point where Binner's $6M is significantly closer to slightly above average pay than it is to the top end of the goalie pay scale.

I also think it is well worth noting that Bob and Vasi are the 2 highest paid active goalies in the league and have won 3 of the last 4 Cups. And while Helly is a better goalie overall, Binner was the better goalie last night. You can never predict with certainty which goalie will play better in any given game, but Binner's ability to be the better goalie in the games that matter most is exactly why people argue that he deserves the contract despite other guys being the better goalie more often.

I think we have reached a point where being a "money" goalie in big games while being inconsistent throughout a season is worth $6M against the cap. Maybe not for our team who needs more to make the playoffs, but I think it is absolutely worth it for a team constructed well enough to make the team.

But he’s a dick Brian.

 

[ds774622]

But he’s a dick Brian.

But he's our dick...I mean, I love his clutchness so he's my dick...well, you know what I mean

 

[WeWantTacos]

All of the yapping from the media before the game about Hellebuyck being the best goaltender in the world, but he wilts again when it matters most.

To be the man, you gotta beat the man.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

But he's our dick...I mean, I love his clutchness so he's my dick...well, you know what I mean

You like to clutch your dick?

 

[ahmedou]

 

[BadgersandBlues]

I loved that shot of Cooper headlocking Binny after the win and yappin in his ear. I don't know what he said but I'd like to think it was something along the lines of, "NEVER LET THEM TELL YOU SHIT! NEVER! YOU'VE NEVER CRUMBLED! f*** ALL THE HATERS!"

You could tell Cooper just 100% wanted Binny to know he thought the world of him and he was so happy he'd f***ing silenced everyone.

 

[westc2]

People seem to forget that this was a best on best tournament with the best shooters in the world....and they complain about a ~.900 save %.

Binnington stole the championship for Canada last night...and they didn't even give him the "player of the game"?....even the Canadian players disrespected Binnington by waiting a long time before handing him the cup in their celebration...they do not deserve him.

Unfortunately Binnington has gained a lot of haters over the years because of his personality...but he's gotta be one of the most clutch goalies in the league.

Shame with Matthews. He had a great game until OT.

Yeah Matthews was awesome up until that final play where he chased after Marner in the corner when we already had a D-man pressuring him, and left McDavid wide open 10 feet in front of the goalie.

 

[BlueSeal]

This series proved that if Binny hadn't gotten injured, we would have walked the Avs on their Cup Run. His stats are deceptive AF; he shows up when you need him the most and you can't buy, trade or train that. Our #1 asset.

Assemble a team around him and go for it. Cut the crap. We're not going to see another goaltender like this for at least 20-40 years if we're lucky and that would have the added benefit of ending up doing an honest rebuild. We're too good to suck bad enough to tank. So build up.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Yeah Matthews was awesome up until that final play where he chased after Marner in the corner when we already had a D-man pressuring him, and left McDavid wide open 10 feet in front of the goalie.

This made me mad just reading it. Such a terrible hockey play. Inexcusable in a game like that.

 

[TheOrganist]

This series proved that if Binny hadn't gotten injured, we would have walked the Avs on their Cup Run. His stats are deceptive AF; he shows up when you need him the most and you can't buy, trade or train that. Our #1 asset.

Assemble a team around him and go for it. Cut the crap. We're not going to see another goaltender like this for at least 20-40 years if we're lucky and that would have the added benefit of ending up doing an honest rebuild. We're too good to suck bad enough to tank. So build up.

Whether or not we would have “walked the Avs” the fact that Colorado fans refused to acknowledge that the series changed the second that assf*** Kadri ran him over is what made the whole thing infuriating. He was in the zone and we’ve seen what happens when Binner gets dialed in.

 

[TheDizee]

This series proved that if Binny hadn't gotten injured, we would have walked the Avs on their Cup Run. His stats are deceptive AF; he shows up when you need him the most and you can't buy, trade or train that. Our #1 asset.

Assemble a team around him and go for it. Cut the crap. We're not going to see another goaltender like this for at least 20-40 years if we're lucky and that would have the added benefit of ending up doing an honest rebuild. We're too good to suck bad enough to tank. So build up.

The Avs were dead to rights in that series and even their braindead homer fans know it. The only thing I did not like was how easily they crumbled after Kadri ran him over. Took alot of dumb penalties and chased hits after that. Buch was also abysmal during that postseason. If the Blues had half a pulse in game 1, they would have stolen that game as well.

With that said, Binner is not the type of goalie who can handle a high workload. Keeping Hofer needs to be a top priority.

 

[StlBigFly]

Binnington gonna get standing ovations every single game in Canada for the rest of his life.

People seem to forget that this was a best on best tournament with the best shooters in the world....and they complain about a ~.900 save %.

Binnington stole the championship for Canada last night...and they didn't even give him the "player of the game"?....even the Canadian players disrespected Binnington by waiting a long time before handing him the cup in their celebration...they do not deserve him.

Unfortunately Binnington has gained a lot of haters over the years because of his personality...but he's gotta be one of the most clutch goalies in the league.


Yeah Matthews was awesome up until that final play where he chased after Marner in the corner when we already had a D-man pressuring him, and left McDavid wide open 10 feet in front of the goalie.

I didnt watch the cup passing but every time I’ve watched it they go by seniority. Captain then guy who played the most games, then second most, and so on. I can’t recall a cup passing that was different, although I don’t know for sure that they’re hyper strict in the moment - the assistant captains and stuff sometimes just go. I wouldn’t automatically think the Canada team passed him the cup any later or sooner than was his turn. Especially since it was a short tournament I’d confidently guess they stuck by a seniority order even without seeing it.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Binnington gonna get standing ovations every single game in Canada for the rest of his life.


I didnt watch the cup passing but every time I’ve watched it they go by seniority. Captain then guy who played the most games, then second most, and so on. I can’t recall a cup passing that was different, although I don’t know for sure that they’re hyper strict in the moment - the assistant captains and stuff sometimes just go. I wouldn’t automatically think the Canada team passed him the cup any later or sooner than was his turn. Especially since it was a short tournament I’d confidently guess they stuck by a seniority order even without seeing it.

Dude, Thorburn was like 3rd in line!

 

[Reality Czech]

I did not intend to remove a game. I pulled the stats from a website after the game, and the site had not updated yet.

I don't ignore his strengths. I have said multiple times he is a good goalie who can rise to the occasion. When he is on, he is a top 5 goalie in the world. Last year he should have gotten a Vezina nom or been in the conversation at least. That competitive fire and chip on his shoulder that lets him rise to the occasion is a double-edged sword. And when he is not totally locked in, he has large swaths of sub-par play. Likewise, when he gets too fired up, he goes on tilt and plays terribly. He has to maintain a razors edge. He would be a great goalie for a strong team who can get him into those big games consistently. That's not us right now and probably is not over the rest of his contract.

Also, I don't think that justifies a $6M price tag. I don't like spending big on goalies. I think you are better served with a slightly above average goalie at slightly above league average pay, then a great goalie at top end goalie pay scale. I think the ROI on cap is higher on skaters than goalies. This last 4-nations game illustrates that. The team with the worse goalie won, because they had the better skaters. Hellebuyck, Shesterkin, Lundqvist, Price, these guys have never lifted the cup.

People ignore the acknowledgement of I give Binnington's strength because my opinions of him as a human are so inflammatory and I am one of the few on here willing to critique his playing. I am not inflammatory to get a rise out of posters (most of the time). I just actually think he is a horrible person, and it pisses me off that he is on my favorite team in all of sports. You are right, though, it does a disservice to my argument. Here's the thing though. I don't care. I'm not going to convince people, so why should I temper my dislike?

A horrible person? What an absurd overreaction. No wonder few people take you seriously.

Cooper took a risk by playing him through the whole tournament, but I'm guessing he knows something most fans don't. He didn't base his decision on Binner's sv% over the first 3 games.

 

[brentashton]

St Louis Blues Fans

Always thought Jordan B was an ok goalie at best, but definitely not elite. I thought he was “lucky” in 2019, for no reason other than I just wasn’t in his corner. The on ice theatrics, often absurd just added to it.

Apologies.

I was not expecting a win on Thursday. If not for Jordan Binnington that game is a win for USA (which I’m assuming would have been ok for most of you folks).

I’m from Saskatchewan, so STL has always had a soft spot for me, from Barry Gibbs, Blair Chapman, Federko, Chaser (who I watched in junior a lot), Schenn etc.. I’m glad Saskatoon never got the Blues back in 1983. I dislike franchise relocations.

Thank you Binnington for being there on Thursday. Good luck in the playoff chase.