Proposal: All Bruins trade rumors/proposals: 16/17 Part VIII

[neelyforpresident]

Sakic dealt Ryan really out of town and gave soderberg and iginla huge long term deals... is he the talent expert you trust the most?

I mean he's sure done a bang up job putting Colorado into the cup hunt loading up his team with tons of hog draft picks and surrounding them with solid veteran support

Personally I don't see it... Colorado feels like a hot trashfire to me. I bet it sucks for a vet like iginla to be promised a chance to contribute to a winner... and see this mess. I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to the youngest captain as everyone expects him to put this mess on his own shoulders

Is landeskog the reason Colorado sucks... or a victim? And does it matter? Perhaps he has been ruined

But this is second pick in his draft class... highest scorer in his draft class... this is a plus 42 player in his career playing for this crap team when linemates like duschene are approaching triple figures negative

Being the kid plugging the leaking duke with your finger... isn't easy at all.

Has landeskog peaked at age 24? Power forwards going back to the days of Frank maholovitch and cam neely were considered busts early in their careers... or at least under achievers. We got Mike Kimble here to be a 4th liner after he struggle his early career

Montreal gave up on John leclair

Boston gave up on Glen Murray

New Jersey thought Bill Guerin had peaked

Its a cautionary tale to give up on highly skill power forwards who demonstrate they can play

Kids like Sandy monger and landon Wilson never proved they can play.

Even a kid like Mark messier took his game to another level after 24... old man strength kicks in... these guys learn the dirty tricks that let then take advantage of their strength

Trying to say landeskog has peaked has very little historical or logically support. Between being young... having to captain through that mess... getting a coach that doesn't employ a system like roy... and now being in constant trade rumors... Its far more likely the best is yet to come.

And remember when you are second overall pick expectations are high... potential is high. Everyone always new landeskog has more to give if he can find the right situation

Well said. Aside from skill and potential, he has...wait for it...intangibles. Captain at 19. Kind of person who you want in the locker room.

 

[cobrak]

Sakic dealt Ryan really out of town and gave soderberg and iginla huge long term deals... is he the talent expert you trust the most?

I mean he's sure done a bang up job putting Colorado into the cup hunt loading up his team with tons of hog draft picks and surrounding them with solid veteran support

Personally I don't see it... Colorado feels like a hot trashfire to me. I bet it sucks for a vet like iginla to be promised a chance to contribute to a winner... and see this mess. I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to the youngest captain as everyone expects him to put this mess on his own shoulders

Is landeskog the reason Colorado sucks... or a victim? And does it matter? Perhaps he has been ruined

But this is second pick in his draft class... highest scorer in his draft class... this is a plus 42 player in his career playing for this crap team when linemates like duschene are approaching triple figures negative

Being the kid plugging the leaking duke with your finger... isn't easy at all.

Has landeskog peaked at age 24? Power forwards going back to the days of Frank maholovitch and cam neely were considered busts early in their careers... or at least under achievers. We got Mike Kimble here to be a 4th liner after he struggle his early career

Montreal gave up on John leclair

Boston gave up on Glen Murray

New Jersey thought Bill Guerin had peaked

Its a cautionary tale to give up on highly skill power forwards who demonstrate they can play

Kids like Sandy monger and landon Wilson never proved they can play.

Even a kid like Mark messier took his game to another level after 24... old man strength kicks in... these guys learn the dirty tricks that let then take advantage of their strength

Trying to say landeskog has peaked has very little historical or logically support. Between being young... having to captain through that mess... getting a coach that doesn't employ a system like roy... and now being in constant trade rumors... Its far more likely the best is yet to come.

And remember when you are second overall pick expectations are high... potential is high. Everyone always new landeskog has more to give if he can find the right situation

Excellent analysis.

 

[NeelyDan]

When exactly did Brandon Carlo turn into Larry Robinson?

hahah seriously, it gets beyond obscene in here

 

[BruinDust]

When exactly did Brandon Carlo turn into Larry Robinson?

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me when Gabriel Landeskog became Jamie Benn.

Or if were going retro, when he became Keith Tkachuk circa 1996.

 

[Blowfish]

Gabriel Landeskog Nathan Mackinnon Mikko Rantanen

So this is Landeskog's line. That's pretty darn good. So why the low numbers?

btw I want Tyson Barrie. Only dude creating chances. Duchesne looking dangerous too.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Gabriel Landeskog Nathan Mackinnon Mikko Rantanen

So this is Landeskog's line. That's pretty darn good. So why the low numbers?

btw I want Tyson Barrie. Only dude creating chances. Duchesne looking dangerous too.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bruins aren't targeting Barrie.

 

[ranold26]

btw I want Tyson Barrie. Only dude creating chances.

...in his own net.

 

[DKH]

Sakic dealt Ryan really out of town and gave soderberg and iginla huge long term deals... is he the talent expert you trust the most?

I mean he's sure done a bang up job putting Colorado into the cup hunt loading up his team with tons of hog draft picks and surrounding them with solid veteran support

Personally I don't see it... Colorado feels like a hot trashfire to me. I bet it sucks for a vet like iginla to be promised a chance to contribute to a winner... and see this mess. I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to the youngest captain as everyone expects him to put this mess on his own shoulders

Is landeskog the reason Colorado sucks... or a victim? And does it matter? Perhaps he has been ruined

But this is second pick in his draft class... highest scorer in his draft class... this is a plus 42 player in his career playing for this crap team when linemates like duschene are approaching triple figures negative

Being the kid plugging the leaking duke with your finger... isn't easy at all.

Has landeskog peaked at age 24? Power forwards going back to the days of Frank maholovitch and cam neely were considered busts early in their careers... or at least under achievers. We got Mike Kimble here to be a 4th liner after he struggle his early career

Montreal gave up on John leclair

Boston gave up on Glen Murray

New Jersey thought Bill Guerin had peaked

Its a cautionary tale to give up on highly skill power forwards who demonstrate they can play

Kids like Sandy monger and landon Wilson never proved they can play.

Even a kid like Mark messier took his game to another level after 24... old man strength kicks in... these guys learn the dirty tricks that let then take advantage of their strength

Trying to say landeskog has peaked has very little historical or logically support. Between being young... having to captain through that mess... getting a coach that doesn't employ a system like roy... and now being in constant trade rumors... Its far more likely the best is yet to come.

And remember when you are second overall pick expectations are high... potential is high. Everyone always new landeskog has more to give if he can find the right situation

Good stuff Mike

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

hahah seriously, it gets beyond obscene in here

Even Larry Robinson didn't turn into Larry Robinson until he was 23 and playing his 3rd nhl season

Luckily Montreal held onto him... but they could afford to hold onto him. They had a safe environment to give him sheltered mins

If we are planning to throw Carlo to the wolves, history shows us young dmen get eaten alive

I remember the classic case where Toronto brought up Jim benning, Gary nylund, Frank boimstruct... there 3 can't miss kids... but they all missed

I remember Hartford fans getting impatient with a young Chris pronger.

Sometimes a trade helps a kid develop... Sometimes it doesnt. Aki berg didn't get better. Luke schenn didn't get better...

But sometimes staying put just doesn't lead to improving either. Chris Phillips always was rather average. Nick boynton didn't become special.

I bring up these names and these history lessons to show us Carlo isn't unique. We can learn caution if we remember history. The amount of defense only dmen who ever had hof careers is almost non existent in the past 50 years. To be an impact dman you must have offense in your game. Everyone on draft day knew Carlo could play defense. I think we are surprised he did it so soon. But he dropped because we all think he can't contribute offense.

Nothing in his rookie year changes that

Larry Robinson was always expected to have offense. So was Chris pronger.

I don't favor trading Carlo for landeskog but my reasons are team needs and cap. Not overvaluing or undervaluing the players to make an agenda work

Its ok to be against this trade simply because it's not what we need

 

[RockLobster]

Gabriel Landeskog Nathan Mackinnon Mikko Rantanen

So this is Landeskog's line. That's pretty darn good. So why the low numbers?

btw I want Tyson Barrie. Only dude creating chances. Duchesne looking dangerous too.

I'm making it my goal to never comment on the proposals being thrown around in here, as it's not my board, it's your guys' board.

But let me just comment on this particular thing here.

The entire Avalanche team is a dumpster fire. The whole team. I figured they'd be a PO bubble team this year, but they are approaching historical levels of bad. SOME of the players aren't bad (MacKinnon, Rantanen, Duchene, and Landeskog all have a serious amount of talent and skill up front).

There's a lot of reasons why they're bad, personally, I believe a lot of it starts with their head coach, Jared Bednar. I cannot stress enough how much he just looks overwhelmed and in over his head. I'm not a "systems expert" by any means, but in reality, there's not a lot of variety among systems in the NHL, and once tape got out on his, it was figured out, and he's just not making the adjustments needed to help his team. On top of that, he has just not shown the coaching ability to do what he can to help get the most out of his players.

For instance--Carl Soderberg. He posted a career high in points last year, this year he looks like a completely different person. I'm not saying he should be pacing for career highs every year, but there's no reason for him to be THIS BAD. Bednar just doesn't even try to help jumpstart him and put him in position to help turn things around. That's just one example.

I'm not going to lay all of the Avs' struggles at Bednar's feet, because that wouldn't be accurate. The truth is, it's just a bad season. However, one bad season doesn't negate the pretty remarkable consistency with which he's played before this year.

It's a bad year, the team is epic levels of bad, the team is badly constructed, badly coached, and they're just playing badly. Us Avs fans are just hoping that next year isn't as bad (but I, for one, believe it will still be a rough year).

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me when Gabriel Landeskog became Jamie Benn.

Or if were going retro, when he became Keith Tkachuk circa 1996.

Ohoh you won't be happy now

Jamie Benn turned 24 on in 2013... the same year he scored 12 goals and had 33 points

I am sure you didn't want to make this comparison

 

[Chief Nine]

There's a lot of reasons why they're bad, personally, I believe a lot of it starts with their head coach, Jared Bednar. I cannot stress enough how much he just looks overwhelmed and in over his head

How much do you think getting the late start with Patrick Roy screwing them by leaving so late in the summer has contributed to this?

 

[bruinmann77]

Carlo has a few years to reach landeskog age and production

 

[Mad Dr Pepper]

Ohoh you won't be happy now

Jamie Benn turned 24 on in 2013... the same year he scored 12 goals and had 33 points

I am sure you didn't want to make this comparison

Well... 33 points in... 41 games...

 

[RockLobster]

How much do you think getting the late start with Patrick Roy screwing them by leaving so late in the summer has contributed to this?

I think that "explanation" is blown a bit out of proportion...of course, I was one of few people who thought that while Roy needed to improve in certain areas, he wasn't as big a problem as some of the "louder voices" made him out to be. And when it comes to Roy, he got a lot out of a very similar roster (they were in the hunt for a PO spot with 10 games left last year).

Bednar already had an Assistant Coach on staff that he had spent the previous 2 years with, including winning the Calder Cup (Nolan Pratt), and the Avs relegated Dave Farrish to basically an off-ice role. Tim Army is someone who I expect will be replaced after this year, but even he has received acclaim from players on the Avs for his 1-on-1 work with them...but the fact remains that it is time for him to go (he doesn't really make it up anywhere else).

The more Bednar has been around the team, the worse they've performed.

So, I don't really place much stock into that, plus, Roy's voice in the Front Office had actually been diminishing ever since Chris MacFarland came aboard (which we can see was something that concerned him--there were moves he wanted to make but didn't feel like his voice was being heard).

Bednar had time to install his game plan and system, but once tape was out on it, it had become easy for teams to come up with a counter attack, and Bednar has, thus far, proven incapable of making the requisite adjustments.

 

[Chief Nine]

I think that "explanation" is blown a bit out of proportion...of course, I was one of few people who thought that while Roy needed to improve in certain areas, he wasn't as big a problem as some of the "louder voices" made him out to be. And when it comes to Roy, he got a lot out of a very similar roster (they were in the hunt for a PO spot with 10 games left last year).

Bednar already had an Assistant Coach on staff that he had spent the previous 2 years with, including winning the Calder Cup (Nolan Pratt), and the Avs relegated Dave Farrish to basically an off-ice role. Tim Army is someone who I expect will be replaced after this year, but even he has received acclaim from players on the Avs for his 1-on-1 work with them...but the fact remains that it is time for him to go (he doesn't really make it up anywhere else).

The more Bednar has been around the team, the worse they've performed.

So, I don't really place much stock into that, plus, Roy's voice in the Front Office had actually been diminishing ever since Chris MacFarland came aboard (which we can see was something that concerned him--there were moves he wanted to make but didn't feel like his voice was being heard).

Bednar had time to install his game plan and system, but once tape was out on it, it had become easy for teams to come up with a counter attack, and Bednar has, thus far, proven incapable of making the requisite adjustments.

Thanks for the insight. I don't get to see the Avs all that much and I've always been a bit perplexed why they've seemed to underperform with the talent they have. Even with Roy at the helm.

 

[RockLobster]

Thanks for the insight. I don't get to see the Avs all that much and I've always been a bit perplexed why they've seemed to underperform with the talent they have. Even with Roy at the helm.

The 2013-14 year was both a good and bad thing for this team. I say that because of course no fan is going to be upset that their team is winning, and the Avs won the Division that year (with an incredible amount of luck in things going their way), but it was bad because I do genuinely believe that Roy and Sakic both thought that they were "ready to turn the corner", and they weren't.

Us fans were expecting a "regression", but it was disappointing how much they did regress...that being said, however, even that year they were mathematically in the PO hunt deep into the season. And I've already mentioned the next year, while their total number of points did drop again, the whole of the NHL saw a lower point output when it came to making the PO's, and the Avs were firmly in control of their own destiny when it came, and...I don't know, somehow they just crumbled.

Even as someone who didn't think Roy was a "big problem", he still had areas of opportunity. He had areas that he needed to improve in. But we're seeing a relatively similar roster this year, and they're epic levels bad.

That being said, all I'm going to say is that I don't think one bad season undoes the consistency with which Landeskog had shown in years prior (and, all things being equal, I'm a big fan of his, I'd rather the Avs deal Duchene to find a D-piece they like).

 

[Pia8988]

Ohoh you won't be happy now

Jamie Benn turned 24 on in 2013... the same year he scored 12 goals and had 33 points

I am sure you didn't want to make this comparison

That was the shortened season. that 33 pts in 41 games.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Ohoh you won't be happy now

Jamie Benn turned 24 on in 2013... the same year he scored 12 goals and had 33 points

I am sure you didn't want to make this comparison

The lockout year? Come on

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

The lockout year? Come on

Projects to around 24 goals? Was Jamie Benn all tapped out of potential?

Or did he become a better player after age 24?

Just asking cause I can probably name 100 guys who play power games who all get better after age 24... Its not too hard to find examples.

I'd say landeskog had a better career up to age 24 than Jamie Benn had

 

[22Brad Park]

You guys can all save your breathe cause Don Sweeney does not have it him to pull off a trade of this magnitude.Bruins will add Stempniak types again.lol

 

[bruinmann77]

Rather him stay pat anyway

 

[riverhawkey91]

That being said, all I'm going to say is that I don't think one bad season undoes the consistency with which Landeskog had shown in years prior (and, all things being equal, I'm a big fan of his, I'd rather the Avs deal Duchene to find a D-piece they like).

Out of curiosity if you're still here, as an Avs fan, how do you view Landeskog in terms of future potential? He's consistently put up 20-25G/30-35A among everything else that he brings...do you think that's a comfortable yearly expectation for him going forward, or do you think he has even more in the tank (i.e. 30G/40A) if he gets traded or the Avs improve significantly?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

That was the shortened season. that 33 pts in 41 games.

Benn had a season of 26 goals... 2 with 22... 1 with 12 which projects to be 24

So was Benn a 20 goal scorer when he was 24?

That is the argument against landeskog right? That he only has a few season with 26 or 22 goals? And in 40 games this year he had around 10 goals?

Isn't that the argument?

I think the anti landeskog crowd should not be pushing Jamie Benn as their poster child

 

[Bruinaura]

In regard to the entire avalanche team being bad.... Exhibit A.