Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[Leonardo87]

Hey Folks,

I decided to start up a new Laf thread. With some understanding with the discussion.... By all means criticize him or applaud him, but please refrain from the personal attacks towards members or the community in general.

Also, the hate trolling needs to come down like several notches. Criticism is one thing, but overkill attacking the player repeatedly on the same thing, is trolling.

Thanks!

Previous thread:
Player Discussion - Alexis Lafreniere

Click to read more...

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

I'm really liking Laffy's game this season besides that one in Nashville where every player on the Rangers looked like Jovo's drunk uncle (no offense).

The line of Chytil, Panarin, and Laffy have been the Rangers most dangerous line thus far.

 

[Machinehead]

Hey Folks,

I decided to start up a new Laf thread. With some understanding with the discussion.... By all means criticize him or applaud him, but please refrain from the personal attacks towards members or the community in general.

Also, the hate trolling needs to come down like several notches. Criticism is one thing, but overkill attacking the player repeatedly on the same thing, is trolling.

Thanks!

Previous thread:
Player Discussion - Alexis Lafreniere

To add: let's keep the tribalism to a minimum. We don't need a victory lap against the "Laf haters" every time he scores or a dunk session on the "Laf defenders" every time he has a bad game.

We root for the same team.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Overall on Lafs game we've gone from being majorly disappointed/underwhelmed/depressed with his camp to cautiously optimistic with his start to the season thus far.

Lets hope this continues.

He's not driving play (not sure if he ever will) but he's not out of place in the top 6 either.

I think a big key is for him to do enough consistently to stick with this line and an obvious piece to the puzzle is Chytil staying healthy.

 

[Machinehead]

Overall on Lafs game we've gone from being majorly disappointed/underwhelmed/depressed with his camp to cautiously optimistic with his start to the season thus far.

Lets hope this continues.

He's not driving play (not sure if he ever will) but he's not out of place in the top 6 either.

I think a big key is for him to do enough consistently to stick with this line and an obvious piece to the puzzle is Chytil staying healthy.

To be fair, it's hard to stand out as driving play on a team that's had the puck the whole season.

Which is nice to say. We usually have the opposite problem.

 

[Kupo]

 

[duhmetreE]

Let’s unite against the mods!

I’ve said it a couple times… his game needs to evolve somewhere in between Bennett and Tkachuk.

He’s not a flashy player like Zegras or Hughes. I still don’t know why that’s even an expectation

 

[Row I Goon]

Let’s untie against the mods!

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

NickyFotiu to answer your question from the previous thread, of course it’s disappointing that in years 4/5 the best thing we can say about lottery picks is that they’re nice complements. It’s beyond disappointing, it’s pathetic and frustrating. I just wish that fans would direct more of this frustration at the coaching and management than the players. A lot of fans would rather carry the water for the organization and call the players lazy, divas, etc.
It’s not making excuses to contextualize their production, yet it’s often met with resistance on here

 

[haohmaru]

NickyFotiu to answer your question from the previous thread, of course it’s disappointing that in years 4/5 the best thing we can say about lottery picks is that they’re nice complements. It’s beyond disappointing, it’s pathetic and frustrating. I just wish that fans would direct more of this frustration at the coaching and management than the players. A lot of fans would rather carry the water for the organization and call the players lazy, divas, etc.
It’s not making excuses to contextualize their production, yet it’s often met with resistance on here

Well, this is the year then. These two guys are obviously getting a nice long look with some of the NHL's best players (Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin) for the first time, really, without having to look over their shoulders.

Honestly, if Lafreniere is on Panarin's line all year and Kakko with Zib/Kreider, there's not reason to believe that both of them won't be 50+ point players.

If Chytil is paired with Panarin throughout the year there's no reason to believe that he won't be a ~70 point player.

And this is why none of these three pieces should be moved this year unless it's a total collapse and we're out of the playoff chase in March. Then, all bets are off.

 

[GAGLine]

Well, this is the year then. These two guys are obviously getting a nice long look with some of the NHL's best players (Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin) for the first time, really, without having to look over their shoulders.

Honestly, if Lafreniere is on Panarin's line all year and Kakko with Zib/Kreider, there's not reason to believe that both of them won't be 50+ point players.

If Chytil is paired with Panarin throughout the year there's no reason to believe that he won't be a ~70 point player.

And this is why none of these three pieces should be moved this year unless it's a total collapse and we're out of the playoff chase in March. Then, all bets are off.

I wouldn't count on that as long as he isn't getting PP1 time.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I wouldn't count on that as long as he isn't getting PP1 time.

Yeah the ceiling is going to be capped for everyone not on PP1, at least until they show any interest in optimizing PP2 instead of just haphazardly throwing a shambles unit together. 50+ should be doable for all of them. People need to properly calibrate themselves to what good even strength production looks like in the absence of meaningful power play time.

 

[Peltz]

I have no complaints so far into the season. But... it's a long season lol

 

[Kupo]

I just wish that fans would direct more of this frustration at the coaching and management than the players.

Did you miss all the Quinn threads? Or the Gallant threads? LOL, there's been plenty of bitching about the coaches.

I'm curious though, what difference does it make where people bitch? It's not going to change anything.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

For reference and context - Take a look at last seasons EVP list

Panarin had 56 EVP, Mika 50.

Kakko and Laf had 37 & 35, respectively. They only had 3 or 4 PP points each.

Recalibration is correct.

If they are both sniffing 50-55 EVP this year with no PP1 time (which almost everyone on the list above has) you are looking at them both becoming top 40 even strength players in the NHL.

Thats on par with players like Panarin, Brady Tkachuk, Bratt, Kopitar, Giroux, Gaudreau, Guentzal, Hintz, Ovy, Stamkos, Pavelski, etc.

For this to happen they would need to improve by 13-20 more ES points over last season. On their new lines - its not a gimme, but certainly within grasp.

The funny thing is if they get to that level - score say 53 points, mainly ES. No one will put them in the conversation of the players above. It may be noted that they "broke out", but a 50 point total isn't elite or higher echelon by any standards, yet some of those names they would be on par with or eclipsing are in the conversation.

Even if they had a more modest uptick of 10 more EVP this season - they would be on par with players (who all played a full season) like Cozens, Larkin, RNH, Malkin, Beniers, Suzuki, Scheifle, Couture, Hagel and yes, Trevor Zegras - who we all love to use as a comparison.

 

[haohmaru]

I wouldn't count on that as long as he isn't getting PP1 time.

He's getting PP2 time, he's playing with Panarin, he's playing with Chytil, he's getting primarily offensive zone starts (he's at 66%, Chytil @ 72.4% and Panarin a whopping 83.3%). If he's going to prove anything NOW is the time and 50 points is certainly doable with that LW and ^ those oZS%.

View attachment 757072

For reference - Last seasons EVP list

Panarin had 56 EVP, Mika 50.

Kakko and Laf had 37 & 35, respectively. They only had 3 or 4 PP points each.

Recalibration is correct.

If they are both sniffing 50-55 EVP this year with no PP1 time (which almost everyone on the list above has) you are looking at top 40 even strength players in the NHL. Thats on par with players like Panarin, Brady Tkachuk, Bratt, Kopitar, Giroux, Gaudreau, Guentzal, Hintz, Ovy, Stamkos, Pavelski, etc.

For this to happen they would need to improve by 13-20 more ES points over last season. On their new lines - that's certainly within grasp.

The funny thing is if they get to that level - score say 53 points, mainly ES. No one will put them in the conversation of the players above. It may be noted that they "broke out", but 50 points isnt elite by any standards, yet some of those names they would be on par with or eclipsing are in the conversation.

Man, Clayton Keller would've been great on this team. He's a player.

 

[romba]

Writing in colored font does actually make one more powerful!

BOW TO ME HEATHENS


Laf's decision making with the puck on his stick are light years better so far this year. Last year, if he's given space he still passes it off ASAP in the name of 'playing fast'. This year he hangs onto the puck if that's what he's afforded, and passes it off quickly when that's the option.

Does he create his own offense? No, not yet (same for KK), but seeing him do it a few times gives me hope he might still have that in him.

 

[GAGLine]

He's getting PP2 time, he's playing with Panarin, he's playing with Chytil, he's getting primarily offensive zone starts (he's at 66%, Chytil @ 72.4% and Panarin a whopping 83.3%). If he's going to prove anything NOW is the time and 50 points is certainly doable with that LW and ^ those oZS%.

50 is absolutely doable. It was the 70 number for Chytil that I was arguing against.

 

[haohmaru]

50 is absolutely doable. It was the 70 number for Chytil that I was arguing against.

Ah, "he" I thought was referencing the guy in the thread title.

We'll see. I think he gets close to that playing with Panarin and PP2.

(Edit) - this is assuming this line stays together and doesn't go Gallant.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

View attachment 757072

For reference and context - Take a look at last seasons EVP list

Panarin had 56 EVP, Mika 50.

Kakko and Laf had 37 & 35, respectively. They only had 3 or 4 PP points each.

Recalibration is correct.

If they are both sniffing 50-55 EVP this year with no PP1 time (which almost everyone on the list above has) you are looking at them both becoming top 40 even strength players in the NHL.

Thats on par with players like Panarin, Brady Tkachuk, Bratt, Kopitar, Giroux, Gaudreau, Guentzal, Hintz, Ovy, Stamkos, Pavelski, etc.

For this to happen they would need to improve by 13-20 more ES points over last season. On their new lines - its not a gimme, but certainly within grasp.

The funny thing is if they get to that level - score say 53 points, mainly ES. No one will put them in the conversation of the players above. It may be noted that they "broke out", but a 50 point total isn't elite or higher echelon by any standards, yet some of those names they would be on par with or eclipsing are in the conversation.

Even if they had a more modest uptick of 10 more EVP this season - they would be on par with players (who all played a full season) like Cozens, Larkin, RNH, Malkin, Beniers, Suzuki, Scheifle, Couture, Hagel and yes, Trevor Zegras - who we all love to use as a comparison.

Great post. I think their even strength production the last two years already is insanely impressive. Bottom 6 was an awful offensive environment for point production on NYR both Gallant years. The 5v5 offense splits without Fox were insane. Kids got a steady dose of Harpur/Nemeth/Trouba/Schneider and still managed to put up respectable numbers. I think it’s fair to expect a significant point increase with more playing time with better players, and the addition of Gustafson to push an anchor out of the lineup and mitigate the Schneider effect. Although I’m not sure if their overall ice time will change much this year, or if they’ll even stick with these lines.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

50 is absolutely doable. It was the 70 number for Chytil that I was arguing against.

Chytil getting 70 points with probably only 5-7 PPP because hes on the second unit puts him in Draisatl, Ratanen, Crosby, Petterson level 5 on 5.

See whats going on here?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Chytil getting 70 points with probably only 5-7 PPP because hes on the second unit puts him in Draisatl, Ratanen, Crosby, Petterson level 5 on 5.

See whats going on here?

Funny thing is Chytil actually was up there with those guys in primary point rate for 2/3 of the season until he cooled off. Not that he is that caliber player but it’s interesting to think about what he could do with a full season of Panarin. Then again there’s a lot of interesting prospect questions that NYR have refused to answer in the name of letting 4 line bums cook

 

[haohmaru]

Chytil getting 70 points with probably only 5-7 PPP because hes on the second unit puts him in Draisatl, Ratanen, Crosby, Petterson level 5 on 5.

See whats going on here?

I see someone pulling 5-7 PPP out of their ass and making an assumption based on that. Let's see how that shakes out over the course of a season which will include possible PP changes, injuries, etc...

Is Zach Hyman getting 57 ES points because he's Zach Hyman or because of who he's playing with?

 

[SA16]

Funny thing is Chytil actually was up there with those guys in primary point rate for 2/3 of the season until he cooled off. Not that he is that caliber player but it’s interesting to think about what he could do with a full season of Panarin. Then again there’s a lot of interesting prospect questions that NYR have refused to answer in the name of letting 4 line bums cook

Yea, cause it was a fluke. Plenty of people put up high scoring percentages in smaller samples (yes, even including a full season) largely due to shooting luck.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Funny thing is Chytil actually was up there with those guys in primary point rate for 2/3 of the season until he cooled off. Not that he is that caliber player but it’s interesting to think about what he could do with a full season of Panarin. Then again there’s a lot of interesting prospect questions that NYR have refused to answer in the name of letting 4 line bums cook

Chytil showed promise with Panarin in very limited action like 4 seasons ago too. I wanted to see those two together all last year when Coach Dingus insisted on pounding the square Vincent Trocheck peg into the round center for Panarin's line hole. I'm glad that line is playing a lot better, and Chytil/Panarin are getting an extended look. I'm fine with Laf benefitting from that, and hopeful that it will take some pressure off him as a driver so that he can just work on the basics, get his confidence back, and eventually start to try more things.

My biggest complaint with how all the kids have been handled remains PP1. I really do not think Trocheck fits at all on that unit, and would be much better in the Kreider role on PP2 as well as taking faceoffs. Given position and progress thus far, I think Kakko has earned an extended look on the RW half wall on the PP1 and to be a counter to Mika so they can both one time from the circle which prevents teams from overloading/favoring on Mika's side.

For Lafreniere specifically, I'd like to see PP2 become much more than an afterthought. I was thrilled Laf got 3PPG last season, narrowly avoiding becoming the first 1OA forward in NHL draft history to never score a PPG in his first 3 seasons. But I'd like to see that second unit be much, much more, and for Laf an Chytil to take lead on that. Committing to Gustafsson, Laf, Chytil, Trocheck, and another forward (or extended Fox) would be a positive development for that unit.

PP scoring hasn't been there for Laf or Chytil, but we'd be kidding ourselves if we said we're happy with how they play the man advantage. They need more urgency and aggressive creativity, and for that they need more reps, and more attention on their PP play in practice. It can't all be PP1 and whatever the cat dragged in but maybe some kidz on PP2.