Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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mas0764

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My position has been that Laf's value on the trade market today is far greater than his value will be to the team at his peak.

This season's performance doesn't change my mind.

Completely separate discussion.

Perhaps.

I'd listen at this point, for example, to like Laf + Chytil + 1st to the Canucks for Elias Pettersson.

But I've heard people suggest, like, Laf for Connor Garland. GTFO with that nonsense.
 
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bhamill

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I don't understand. I mean, we don't want to see him fail. We criticize him when he stinks. We give him props when he has a good game. What we want is consistently. We don't want to see his feet stop working when he gets the puck. It's simple. Continue moving your feet. This was never a top speed issue.
Well I think that what you said above is true of you and many others. But when I see people who say they aren’t rooting against him, or want him to succeed, say he was “just a passenger” on “Fil and Pan’s great game”, it kind of contradicts that. Begrudged acknowledgement with a side of minimizing isn’t exactly rooting for success… Again, I’m not saying that’s you, but you can read through the last few pages and see it on display.
 
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Rangers in 7

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Well I think that what you said above is true of you and many others. But when I see people who say they aren’t rooting against him, or want him to succeed, say he was “just a passenger” on “Fil and Pan’s great game”, it kind of contradicts that. Begrudged acknowledgement with a side of minimizing isn’t exactly rooting for success… Again, I’m not saying that’s you, but you can read through the last few pages and see it on display.
It’s a double edged sword, that these same posters are praising fil, then turning around and criticizing laf. If fil finished laf breakaway pass then what?

He can’t simultaneously be a passenger but also setting up players for excellent scoring opportunities.

The way I see it….people just hate him because he’s not Jack Hughes. They are mad that he’s not Connor mcdavid or bedard. That thinking is pathetic and close minded.
 
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LokiDog

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I can't say I'd make that trade. That's a lot to give up and a lot to give up on. I'm not ready to ship Lafreniere across the country just yet.

For a 100+ point center who got Selke votes last year and is turning 25 in a few days? If we knew we could fit the next contract, I would. But Pettersson is likely a top 20-30 or so asset in the league. Like Fil is 10 months younger and 332 NHL games he has 40 more points than Pettersson had in 80 games last year alone, while being one of the most complete two way centers in the league.
 

bhamill

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My position has been that Laf's value on the trade market today is far greater than his value will be to the team at his peak.

This season's performance doesn't change my mind.
This may or may not be true. However the risk in trading him and having him break out, with the flashes he’s been showing, his improvement so far this year, means he’s probably going nowhere any time soon.
Personally I’m not adverse to trading him for VALUE. The thing is that perceived value, on my end and seemingly that of management, is far from what you may think his value is.

For a 100+ point center who got Selke votes last year and is turning 25 in a few days? If we knew we could fit the next contract, I would. But Pettersson is likely a top 20-30 or so asset in the league.
Petterson is just getting to his prime as well. I think he may actually be UNDERRATED...
 

haohmaru

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For a 100+ point center who got Selke votes last year and is turning 25 in a few days? If we knew we could fit the next contract, I would. But Pettersson is likely a top 20-30 or so asset in the league. Like Fil is 10 months younger and 332 NHL games he has 40 more points than Pettersson had in 80 games last year alone, while being one of the most complete two way centers in the league.

It's a lot. I mean, Chytil playing with Panarin might put up 70 points this year. Laf might put up 50. And a 1st. That's a lot of your future going the wrong direction and god forbid that Laf figures things out and actually becomes a legit 1OA player?

I can't give up on the guy. Not yet. I think this season has to come and go before I entertain thoughts of anything other than him being a Ranger.
 
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Priorae

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I can't say I'd make that trade. That's a lot to give up and a lot to give up on. I'm not ready to ship Lafreniere across the country just yet.
That's a really interesting trade. Definitely an upgrade for the Rangers now Chytil "might" end up being the most valuable guy in the deal long term, and there's a lot of contract flexibility that the Rangers would be giving up (Chytil's 4.25 is going to look ridiculous in 3 years). You'd have to lock Elias at like 9M+, so he basically ties your team up with another long term, high price player.

I think in the end I'd pass too (really nothing to do with Lafreniere and more to do with money).
 
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Priorae

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We haven't seen a real blockbuster trade in a while. I'd love to see a true massive trade that makes sense for both sides...like a Panarin / Lafreniere for Marner / Knies. Something built more on change and positioning and age.
 

TGWL

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For a 100+ point center who got Selke votes last year and is turning 25 in a few days? If we knew we could fit the next contract, I would. But Pettersson is likely a top 20-30 or so asset in the league. Like Fil is 10 months younger and 332 NHL games he has 40 more points than Pettersson had in 80 games last year alone, while being one of the most complete two way centers in the league.
Yeah, I'm with you. Even if Chytil and Laf reach another gear, what we're getting back right now in a 25 year old who will still be on the right side of 30 when our other prospects join the team is too good to pass up. Even if things go south, I can't see this being a lottery team with Pettersson this season, with potential to lose out on that pick. He's just sooo damn good. The clear issue is money, not the pieces involved. Can't see Vancouver doing that even with a contract negotiation issue, considering he's still an RFA.
 

ReddestRum

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I mean you realize Laf created the turnover and got the puck to Chytil who got it back to him after he got himself in position? Right? You’re not at all trying to minimize Laf’s play for the sake of a narrative, are you?

Minimizing what? Laf put his stick in the way of a bad pass off the boards, passes it to Chytil who dekes past two defenders right on him for a pass to Laf.

Laf did a hockey play. He stuck his stick out and passed to the open man and if this is how we're going to be all season when Laf makes a hockey play and scores a point every three or four games only only for you guys to turn around with "I told you so" posts like he's suddenly on track to be an 80 point player, then it's going to be a long season for the Laf club. Lol. No narratives here man. Laf had a good game but the Laf stans are asking for 100% fellate per good hockey play and one point games.

:laugh:
 

NickyFotiu

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Yes, everyone who said he's not good at anything and should be traded away for peanuts was wrong.

There is plenty to criticize and his positive performance so far this season doesn't change a lot of those valid criticisms.

But the hyperbole was always ridiculous and yeah you are one of the ones who is kinda guilty of it.

You are erecting a straw man.

What I said was "the people who said he's not good at anything are wrong."
I'm not bashing Laf. I'm not saying he is not good at anything as some posters may or may not have said but as a NYR fan I am curious what things do you think he is good to elite at? I'm hoping to see these things myself because I want him to become a great player.
 

mas0764

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I'm not bashing Laf. I'm not saying he is not good at anything as some posters may or may not have said but as a NYR fan I am curious what things do you think he is good to elite at? I'm hoping to see these things myself because I want him to become a great player.
I am not saying he’s “elite” at anything. But he has a knack for chipping in dirty goals. When he’s engaged, he’s a positive physical presence. And I do think he’s a plus passer.

His weakness is that he’s been completely lost out on the ice, he’s overthinking everything and it slows down literally all his other skills. As he has gotten more comfortable, as you’ve seen this season, some of those skills start to look not so sub-NHL level.

I think there is a path to a scrappy, physical type player who can be a 60 point guy as a secondary player on a line, for sure. Whether he can be more than that becomes farther fetched by the day but would require improvement we haven’t seen yet.
 

NickyFotiu

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I am not saying he’s “elite” at anything. But he has a knack for chipping in dirty goals. When he’s engaged, he’s a positive physical presence. And I do think he’s a plus passer.

His weakness is that he’s been completely lost out on the ice, he’s overthinking everything and it slows down literally all his other skills. As he has gotten more comfortable, as you’ve seen this season, some of those skills start to look not so sub-NHL level.

I think there is a path to a scrappy, physical type player who can be a 60 point guy as a secondary player on a line, for sure. Whether he can be more than that becomes farther fetched by the day but would require improvement we haven’t seen yet.
That is fair. I agree he is solid to good in front of the net and is a physical presence. Also has a good backhand in close. I have not seen enough good passes so far in his career to say I think he has been a good passer yet.
 

Mandar

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Question - how difficult would it be to replace what Laf is right now to the team? I’m not talking about the “potential”, because I’m curious about what is actually happening.

i know there’s a lot of concern of what he may become, and we could miss out on it. But right now, for what he has actually done, how difficult would it be to replace that? Could anyone else playing in the same circumstances produce that amazing “5 on 5” production, and any other perceived positives that he brings?
 

LokiDog

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Really? We have a guy that was a Hart trophy candidate a few years ago and has scored more points in his first 4 years with the team than any other player.

Why can’t both be true? Pettersson is absurdly good, has a career high at 24 years old that’s higher than Panarin has ever posted, is a center, which is the premium position in the league and got serious Selke consideration as a complete two way force before 25. Why can’t we have a Hart nominee elite winger and still admit Pettersson would be the best prime offensive player this team has had in forever? It doesn’t make Bread less good. It just means Pettersson is that good.
 

mas0764

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Minimizing what? Laf put his stick in the way of a bad pass off the boards, passes it to Chytil who dekes past two defenders right on him for a pass to Laf.

Laf did a hockey play. He stuck his stick out and passed to the open man and if this is how we're going to be all season when Laf makes a hockey play and scores a point every three or four games only only for you guys to turn around with "I told you so" posts like he's suddenly on track to be an 80 point player, then it's going to be a long season for the Laf club. Lol. No narratives here man. Laf had a good game but the Laf stans are asking for 100% fellate per good hockey play and one point games.

:laugh:

I haven’t seen even one person fellating him or acting like he’s gonna be an 80 point player. Just saying there’s a decent top 6 player in there, perhaps. And it’s wrong to act like he’s a total bust.
 

mas0764

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Question - how difficult would it be to replace what Laf is right now to the team? I’m not talking about the “potential”, because I’m curious about what is actually happening.

i know there’s a lot of concern of what he may become, and we could miss out on it. But right now, for what he has actually done, how difficult would it be to replace that? Could anyone else playing in the same circumstances produce that amazing “5 on 5” production, and any other perceived positives that he brings?

Well his metrics are pretty good right now, so you tell us.
 
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