Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Siddi]

You think Zibs picking up more than 30% of his points on the powerplay doesn’t make for apples to oranges? Good luck.

Mika had less than 30% of his production coming from the PP.

Also, you got taken to the shed for this argument in the other thread which you still havent replied to.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I couldn't stomach the "shift young player x to center" idea, from the get go.

One of the most ridiculous narratives on the board, and every season more people cone up with the same ludicrous idea over and over again.

smh

Why? It happens enough where it’s not a huge rarity. Mainly with better young players. Not saying Laf should be moved, but we definitely have one top prospect that I could see getting looks at center because he’s a very good defensive player and great passer.

 

[bhamill]

Despite Mika having almost 30% of his points on the PP, he still had a better TOI/P ratio at ES than Laf. He even had a better ration at ES+SH than Laf did at ES+PP. Or to make it even more damning: Mika needed just around 27 minutes per shorthanded point, while Laf needed around 32 minutes per point on the power play.

And it's great that he's disappointed and acknowledges his bad play, but I don't care much about words. I care more about play. And that's the thing: Mika was a disappointment this season no doubt, but yet Laf was an even bigger one. And that's worrying. This ain't no sophomore slump either, this was his 5th season in the NHL. To me this continued lack of progression is far more disappointing than an older player like Mika declining.

I gave you clear reasons WHY Mika was a bigger disappointment to me. I don't care if you have a different opinion, I'm not trying to convince you. You are comparing the veteran "leader" making 8.5 million to the 23 year old making 2.3 million. And their stats are close enough that perspective is the only thing that separates one from the other. Which of them actually earned their pay this year? Mika sure didn't, and took zero responsibility. Laf's EV scoring was well worth his AAV. Next year Laf's salary jumps. If he doesn't step it up he WILL be approaching Mika disappointment territory... But this past season? Please.
Feel free to feel how you feel, but objectively Mika was a worse value and a bigger disappointment.

 

[jniklast]

I gave you clear reasons WHY Mika was a bigger disappointment to me. I don't care if you have a different opinion, I'm not trying to convince you. You are comparing the veteran "leader" making 8.5 million to the 23 year old making 2.3 million. And their stats are close enough that perspective is the only thing that separates one from the other. Which of them actually earned their pay this year? Mika sure didn't, and took zero responsibility. Laf's EV scoring was well worth his AAV. Next year Laf's salary jumps. If he doesn't step it up he WILL be approaching Mika disappointment territory... But this past season? Please.
Feel free to feel how you feel, but objectively Mika was a worse value and a bigger disappointment.

Sure, regarding their respective paychecks for the season, I fully agree with you. But it's the future that is concerning me. If Laf does not - finally - take a big step forward, his contract will be just as bad as Zibs - not to mention that he will be an almost total failure of a #1 pick.

 

[bhamill]

Mika had less than 30% of his production coming from the PP.

Also, you got taken to the shed for this argument in the other thread which you still havent replied to.

He actually had just OVER 30% of his scoring on the powerplay. 19 points on the powerplay 62 points total. 19/62=0.30645161 which is slightly OVER 30%. Your love of the player doesn't alter mathematics.
And dude, I have a life. I don't live it on these boards. I was out at a show yesterday. Even though I probably still spend too much time on this board, sometimes I go days without being on here. Imagine if this was one of those times... Brother, if this is how tightly wound you are waiting for a message board response I suggest you get out a bit as well. Hahahaha.

At this point I'm bowing out as far as this conversation goes, because neither of us will be changing each other's minds. And I personally have no need or desire to do so. You'll continue to defend Zibs and I will continue to say he's a big f***ing disappointment. And the world will keep spinning just fine!

 

[bhamill]

Sure, regarding their respective paychecks for the season, I fully agree with you. But it's the future that is concerning me. If Laf does not - finally - take a big step forward, his contract will be just as bad as Zibs - not to mention that he will be an almost total failure of a #1 pick.

We agree there. Laf NEEDS to step it up. If he does not he will be a really bad value.
And he's never going to REALLY live up to his 1OA hype. In that way, yes he's already a disappointment. I've already disregarded his pedigree personally and just look at him as a 23 year old NHLer. I guess that is a real level of disappointment as well.

 

[bhamill]

Funny thing is If Zibanijad had just looked in the mirror and took agency for his shit last two seasons I'd be cutting him a lot more slack. But his bullshit about "not knowing what was going on" just put me off. For me it was the nail in the coffin for his season and maybe his career here. If a player cant just take responsibility for his play, I don't see much to hope for that player going forward.
Everyone who LOVES Zibs and wants to defend him, feel free, die on that hill even, but I won't be fighting with you there. I'm not having the argument with you. I'm sure he's a wonderful human, I just personally don't need him on my hockey team.

 

[TGWL]

Mika had less than 30% of his production coming from the PP.

Also, you got taken to the shed for this argument in the other thread which you still havent replied to.

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[NickyFotiu]

Funny thing is If Zibanijad had just looked in the mirror and took agency for his shit last two seasons I'd be cutting him a lot more slack. But his bullshit about "not knowing what was going on" just put me off. For me it was the nail in the coffin for his season and maybe his career here. If a player cant just take responsibility for his play, I don't see much to hope for that player going forward.
Everyone who LOVES Zibs and wants to defend him, feel free, die on that hill even, but I won't be fighting with you there. I'm not having the argument with you. I'm sure he's a wonderful human, I just personally don't need him on my hockey team.

Totally agree about personal responsibility for our players. Their jobs are to give everything they can on the ice. Nobody asked the players to be the GM. Even of we did ask them to be the GM that wouldn't be an excuse not to give everything they could during the games. They are paid to play.

 

[bhamill]

Totally agree about personal responsibility for our players. Their jobs are to give everything they can on the ice. Nobody asked the players to be the GM. Even of we did ask them to be the GM that wouldn't be an excuse not to give everything they could during the games. They are paid to play.

Exactly, bud.

 

[Siddi]

He actually had just OVER 30% of his scoring on the powerplay. 19 points on the powerplay 62 points total. 19/62=0.30645161 which is slightly OVER 30%. Your love of the player doesn't alter mathematics.
And dude, I have a life. I don't live it on these boards. I was out at a show yesterday. Even though I probably still spend too much time on this board, sometimes I go days without being on here. Imagine if this was one of those times... Brother, if this is how tightly wound you are waiting for a message board response I suggest you get out a bit as well. Hahahaha.

At this point I'm bowing out as far as this conversation goes, because neither of us will be changing each other's minds. And I personally have no need or desire to do so. You'll continue to defend Zibs and I will continue to say he's a big f***ing disappointment. And the world will keep spinning just fine!

Welcome - Learning Everyday Math Video Tutorial | LinkedIn Learning, formerly Lynda.com

Join Vince Kotchian for an in-depth discussion in this video, Welcome, part of Learning Everyday Math.

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I was wrong on the math. My bad.

 

[bhamill]

I was wrong on the math. My bad.

It happens.

 

[TomBlizzy12]

Peak: Physical playmaker with great puck movement and sneaky hard shot (potentially 80-85 pts/season)

Floor: This season

 

[Crease]

With Laf I've always felt the blame goes both ways. Management failed to set him up for success. But he also lacks the drive to be the best circumstances be damned.

 

[Fitzy]

With Laf I've always felt the blame goes both ways. Management failed to set him up for success. But he also lacks the drive to be the best circumstances be damned.

He's always going to be a complimentary top 6 player, not a line driver.

Don't get me wrong- there's a use for that. Laf playing with Panarin and Tro will score a lot more than Colin Blackwell under the exact same conditions. But, it doesn't make him a prize piece- it does make him eminently replaceable if the right deal comes around.

 

[bleedblue94]

After years of discrediting plus minus in the stall Girardi days it's beyond amusing to see people arguing about who had the less bad plus minus this season to try to justify an argument.

Welcome to the off-season...

 

[Cusedog2]

Totally agree about personal responsibility for our players. Their jobs are to give everything they can on the ice. Nobody asked the players to be the GM. Even of we did ask them to be the GM that wouldn't be an excuse not to give everything they could during the games. They are paid to play.

This

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Why? It happens enough where it’s not a huge rarity.

Cap. Don't see it, not even remotely.

Mainly with better young players.

Ahhh, there's the reason we wont see it happening here alright.

Not saying Laf should be moved, but we definitely have one top prospect that I could see getting looks at center because he’s a very good defensive player and great passer.

Imo, Laf has to be dealt. Don't think he'll live up to the contract. Deal him to MTL for a haul.

I guess you're talking about Gabe? Dunno man, great passer he is ... but he lacks speed and certainly the strength to play center and proper defense (at the moment).

 

[NYRFANMANI]

But he also lacks the drive to be the best circumstances be damned.

We were also debating, whether or not the team/management/front office/culture (of the team, and city maybe?) imposes such a culture onto young players. Taking away their drive, imo the biggest factor, getting guys motivated.

That wouldn't absolute the kid, because he could have also imposed his culture of work ethic and drive onto the team. Something a 1OA kinda supposed to bring with him. But he doesn't have that, so it didn't happen, bummer.

 

[nyr2k2]

No reason to trade Laf now. See who they bring in to coach. Most guys sucked last year, see if he can turn it around with the new staff. If he does, wonderful. If not, you can still find a way to move him. 24 year old former first round pick who is good for 45-50 points. That will intrigue someone even if you have to eat some money.

I was fully in favor of trading Kakko and still am, but if he blows up and Lafreniere blows up, it's really setting the franchise back. I'm only moving him unless the franchise is sure that he has peaked, and I'm not sure I trust the franchise to make that call.

 

[bhamill]

No reason to trade Laf now. See who they bring in to coach. Most guys sucked last year, see if he can turn it around with the new staff. If he does, wonderful. If not, you can still find a way to move him. 24 year old former first round pick who is good for 45-50 points. That will intrigue someone even if you have to eat some money.

I was fully in favor of trading Kakko and still am, but if he blows up and Lafreniere blows up, it's really setting the franchise back. I'm only moving him unless the franchise is sure that he has peaked, and I'm not sure I trust the franchise to make that call.

It would be highly unusual for a player to have peaked at 22, when Laf had his best season so far.

 

[TGWL]

Lafreniere was playing find at age 23, which he turned as the season started. Then December was around the corner and Dunkin Donuts just released their holiday Peppermint Mocha with whip, bundled with a Christmas frosted donut.

Back to being more serious (I was a little serious above), this is a big offseason for him. Sometimes players need it and can't properly train with a shorten off-season due to a long playoff run. We got bounced by NJ, Laf had a good season after training his ass off, and after the long playoff run we had reaching the ECF, he probably relaxed a lot more last summer. He needs to go through it again and come into next season moving his feet, or it's going to be another disappointing season.

"
We analyzed every aspect of his skating abilities," Dubé explained. "We have videos from lots of angles on that, and so we could see where Laffy could improve. The one thing that we knew he had to improve was to have a full stride, and he was limited in his full stride because his hips were not mobile enough."

Hip mobility became the theme of the summer, and with the Rangers getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs, the duo had more time than expected to devote to achieving that end.

"We were going to take full advantage of all these extra weeks that we had," Dubé said. "Laffy took 10 days off last year, then he said, 'Let's get back at it right now.' And we used the full summer. ... All the exercises were (designed) to make sure that his skating stride would be longer, stronger, more powerful."

Through an intense regime of weight training, power skating, stretching and healthy diet, they measured a strength increase of "close to 30%" in Lafrenière's quads from the beginning of the offseason until the time he left for Rangers' training camp."

 

[bhamill]

Lafreniere was playing find at age 23, which he turned as the season started. Then December was around the corner and Dunkin Donuts just released their holiday Peppermint Mocha with whip, bundled with a Christmas frosted donut.

Back to being more serious (I was a little serious above), this is a big offseason for him. Sometimes players need it and can't properly train with a shorten off-season due to a long playoff run. We got bounced by NJ, Laf had a good season after training his ass off, and after the long playoff run we had reaching the ECF, he probably relaxed a lot more last summer. He needs to go through it again and come into next season moving his feet, or it's going to be another disappointing season.

"
We analyzed every aspect of his skating abilities," Dubé explained. "We have videos from lots of angles on that, and so we could see where Laffy could improve. The one thing that we knew he had to improve was to have a full stride, and he was limited in his full stride because his hips were not mobile enough."

Hip mobility became the theme of the summer, and with the Rangers getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs, the duo had more time than expected to devote to achieving that end.

"We were going to take full advantage of all these extra weeks that we had," Dubé said. "Laffy took 10 days off last year, then he said, 'Let's get back at it right now.' And we used the full summer. ... All the exercises were (designed) to make sure that his skating stride would be longer, stronger, more powerful."

Through an intense regime of weight training, power skating, stretching and healthy diet, they measured a strength increase of "close to 30%" in Lafrenière's quads from the beginning of the offseason until the time he left for Rangers' training camp."

His next season may not be make or break, but it very well may determine if he remains a NYR or not...
Hope he understands that.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Bedard turned down WC invite. His reasoning was,

I don't think I'm slow but probably kind of average speed, Bedard said about his game. I'm not ever going to be MacKinnon or McDavid or anyone like that, but if I can gain another step, it puts guys on their heels a little more and with the way I think the game, that could be a huge plus for me and help me create more. Said Bedard

 

[will1066]

Bedard turned down WC invite. His reasoning was,

I don't think I'm slow but probably kind of average speed, Bedard said about his game. I'm not ever going to be MacKinnon or McDavid or anyone like that, but if I can gain another step, it puts guys on their heels a little more and with the way I think the game, that could be a huge plus for me and help me create more. Said Bedard

Refreshingly honest.

Mika first half of 2024-25: I think I've been playing well.