Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[SA16]

A whole month at the very start of his career? Amazing.

And it's funny you reference the Kings and Byfield, who for the majority of his career people have felt is underachieving as well.

Edit: I'm not trying to exonerate Lafreniere entirely. If he wanted to be the guy he could definitely be showing and doing a LOT more. But our coaching and deployment during his time here has done him zero favors.

It's really not true that most 1/2 overall forwards start out in some huge L1/PP1 role. You just think that because there are some real elite players that have. Since 2005, those players averaged 16.4 mins/game in their first season as a regular and 11/31 got under 15 minutes/game. Crosby is the only one to have averaged 20 minutes and he/celebrini/bedard/eichel are the only ones to hit 19 minutes. It is true that most of them got more PP time though and got moved up in their second seasons before Laf though. Many of them played on the third line to start.

 

[zlev]

Laf will probably be an 80 point guy with PP time and top line minutes. You know, what every other #1 pick gets to start their career. He's far from the worst of the bunch or main culprit. Panarin taught him to be a soft, lazy perimeter player.

have you seen him on the PP? lol

 

[ReddestRum]

Laf will probably be an 80 point guy with PP time and top line minutes. You know, what every other #1 pick gets to start their career. He's far from the worst of the bunch or main culprit. Panarin taught him to be a soft, lazy perimeter player.

No disrespect here Mc, but lol. I swear I've heard this every year since even before his draft year. We're coming full circle again with Laf. Just not quite sure which stage of grief we're in currently with Laf.

 

[bouds]

If he was playing well given how this season went down he’d find his ass on the PP1, if he can’t get on it this year then when. I’m sure it’s Panarin’s fault though.

 

[markymarc1215]

Kovalev was never on the top line as a Ranger, nor the top PP unit, except for late in his first stint when the team was so bad they stuck him on the right point as a defenseman for his shot, which in spite of the offensive futility of the 97-98 season, allowed him to finish with totals in line with his average Rangers season despite the team being a complete dumpster aside from Gretzky and the last gasp of Pat LaFontaine's career before the last concussion.

Who could forget such luminaries on the wing as late career Kevin Stevens, Tim Sweeney, Mike Keane, Bill Berg, and Johan Lindbom?

The second time Kovalev was brought back, he scored 10 goals in 24 games (not terrible), but the rest of the team was a disaster so he only had 3 assists. The 2003-04 team was horrific, hoping that Messier at 43 and...Bobby Holik...could somehow carry the offense in the wake of Pavel Bure's knee injury, another Lindros concussion, reuniting the Czechmates without Radek Dvorak, and sprinkling in a bunch of spare parts.

Ironically, as bad as those 2002-03 and 2003-04 teams were... the one guy they could never find ice time for was Jaime Lundmark. Yeah, yeah, he was a bust and all, but somehow the team considered it a valid development strategy to throw him on lines with guys like Dan LaCouture and Jed Ortmeyer for 10 minutes a night.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

These are all very valid points and fully accurate. Kovalev had a few cups of coffee on the Messier line but was never the regular 1RW. The one line he really clicked with was the Robitaille-Ferraro line in 95-96, which was IMO his best regular season as a Ranger. Kovalev probably wasn't the best guy to play with North-South players like Graves and Messier. He needed to be the driver on a line and not a complement.

I also think if Kovalev was drafted by the Pens, they win the Cup in 95-96, he easily has several 100+ points seasons with that stacked Power Play, and the Rangers likely do not win the Cup in 93-94.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

have you seen him on the PP? lol

I feel like he’d be fine filling the role that Vilardi and Stone do on their units. There’s also no chance he’s not one of the 4 best options on the team right now although obviously that’s a very low bar to clear. It really seems like most people on here have no concept of how cooked Kreider and Zibanejad are offensively just from a point production standpoint. It’s low key one of the craziest things happening right now that Kreider is on their top unit. He has ZERO primary assists this year and a lower 5v5 point rate than Ross Johnston and is on the top unit in do or die games

 

[McRanger92]

No disrespect here Mc, but lol. I swear I've heard this every year since even before his draft year. We're coming full circle again with Laf. Just not quite sure which stage of grief we're in currently with Laf.

He's only 23 and signed for 7 more seasons, what would you recommend be the course of action here? Give up on him and trade him at his lowest value? maybe, just maybe, we should try to put him in a role he can actually produce points. I just dont get why on a team that needs top tier talent they wouldnt just see if their #1 overall pick from 3 years ago could actually be part of the solution. Imo when Lafreniere is actually controlling and owning the puck he plays with much more confidence. That's never happening when he plays on a line with panarin, who is the puckhog king for better or worse.

 

[McRanger92]

If he was playing well given how this season went down he’d find his ass on the PP1, if he can’t get on it this year then when. I’m sure it’s Panarin’s fault though.

With Laviolette making the decisions, are you sure about that? As @80shockeywasbuns pointed out, Kreider is on PP1 with 0 primary assists this year. Are they making the best decisions for the team or are they placating aging veterans?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

have you seen him on the PP? lol

Have you seen the PP?

 

[zlev]

Have you seen the PP?

ok, you got me there

 

[8899]

View attachment 924426



Previous thread...

Confirmed with Link: - Alexis Lafreniere Signs Extension [7Y/7.45M AAV]​

Lafreniere is one of the great talents the Rangers had.

Damn if the Rangers replace Lafreniere.

Lafreniere to stay until he retires sounds more credible.



As long as.

or



or

 

[its not that serious]

With this coaching staff, the powerplay unit has been based mostly on who fills certain complimentary roles with one another. Getting powerplay time is not a reward, and not getting powerplay time isn't a punishment. He's not being kept off the powerplay because he is lazy, nor is he being excluded because despite points at even strength.

Lafreniere doesn't fill certain roles on the powerplay. He's not there because he is not going to be a puck mover with Panarin and Fox on that group, he's not going to take faceoffs, he's not a puck retrieval guy, he's not the shooter, he's not a net front guy. Broadly, those are the pieces the team wanted together... last year it worked very well, and they've insisted on it all year because Laviolette is stubbornly loyal, and maybe he should've been fired for that kind of refusal to change a few months ago when it was obvious so much didn't work. Chytil, Cuylle and Lafreniere each had brief chances. But that's all they were ever getting until they overhaul the entire unit (maybe the roster in general), the group is obviously staying unchanged.

Next season, change the strategy altogether.... put him in the bumper position, put JT where he was with the Canucks, get a unit of five players who stay in motion. He can be an asset in a different scheme. He isn't right now.

As bad as his season was in many ways, I firmly believe he's going to turn things around.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Honestly thought we’d be seeing shit like this from him by now

 

[8899]

Lafreniere doesn't fill certain roles on the powerplay.

Next season, change the strategy altogether.... put him in the bumper position, put JT where he was with the Canucks, get a unit of five players who stay in motion. He can be an asset in a different scheme. He isn't right now.

As bad as his season was in many ways, I firmly believe he's going to turn things around.

Lafreniere did stuff on the powerplay.

Excellent player on my prediction next world-class player.

 

[bhamill]

Wait a minute, that can’t be true. I was told he never played with a good player in his career up until last season. The same good player who is a bad influence on him and the reason he’s a huge disappointment.

Who told you he never played with a good player? That person must’ve been blind, stupid or lying. I want a name! Hahaha. Many of us have said that in his early seasons he was never stapled to a single top line and pp and allowed to make mistakes. Was jerked around from spot to spot instead of being shown consistency and allowed to build some confidence. And three games with one line, four with another and one with a third just reinforces that he was shuffled around instead of that.

 

[bhamill]

So Laf with 5pts in three games, including a beaut of a shot last night. Let’s see if he can build on that in these last 9 games or if he backslides.

 

[Profet]

So Laf with 5pts in three games, including a beaut of a shot last night. Let’s see if he can build on that in these last 9 games or if he backslides.

Are you counting his assists to the other team too?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

7 points in the last 7.

 

[NickyFotiu]

So Laf with 5pts in three games, including a beaut of a shot last night. Let’s see if he can build on that in these last 9 games or if he backslides.

Very few NYR outside of Cuylle has had a strong season but if Laf was putting these numbers (73gp-16g-27a-43p) up on another team some posters would be groaning about how well he was playing elsewhere. I think Laf is really our main hope for a future either by becoming an All Star here or in a major trade. I really hopes he can find a way to reach 20g-50p this season. Just psychologically he could build off that. We need to let him know that to play on the top lines he needs to be the guy we saw last season both physically and production wise. I had hoped he would be a 30 goal scorer this season after scoring 28 last season.

 

[ReddestRum]

Very few NYR outside of Cuylle has had a strong season but if Laf was putting these numbers (73gp-16g-27a-43p) up on another team some posters would be groaning about how well he was playing elsewhere. I think Laf is really our main hope for a future either by becoming an All Star here or in a major trade. I really hopes he can find a way to reach 20g-50p this season. Just psychologically he could build off that. We need to let him know that to play on the top lines he needs to be the guy we saw last season both physically and production wise. I had hoped he would be a 30 goal scorer this season after scoring 28 last season.

Unfortunately for Laf, because he has the stigma of 1OA, no one on this planet would say he's playing well. No one. We cheered last year for numbers in his 4th that 18 year old rookies reach in their 1st year on ELC's and literal bottom feeder teams. The fact that he got a 7mil+ promotion for his offensive and defensive regression while looking like half the player Cuylle seems to be turning into is absolutely shocking.

I'm tired of people saying our players are bad because the team is bad, yet, there are players that still rise to the occasion when their team is shit. Laf is hardly one of those players.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Unfortunately for Laf, because he has the stigma of 1OA, no one on this planet would say he's playing well. No one. We cheered last year for numbers in his 4th that 18 year old rookies reach in their 1st year on ELC's and literal bottom feeder teams. The fact that he got a 7mil+ promotion for his offensive and defensive regression while looking like half the player Cuylle seems to be turning into is absolutely shocking.

I'm tired of people saying our players are bad because the team is bad, yet, there are players that still rise to the occasion when their team is shit. Laf is hardly one of those players.

Some players have bigger individual numbers when playing on bad teams in multiple sports. Could be a variety of reasons. Playing for stats not wins. Not caring about defense. Not liking Lafs style this season but I take guys producing increased stats on crap teams with a grain of salt. Laf showed what he could do last season. We need him to get back there and then some. We do need some changes. This NYR window has closed. The coaches will likely be gone. Hopefully Laf and Shesty will be leading our next window in a positive way.

 

[ReddestRum]

Some players have bigger individual numbers when playing on bad teams in multiple sports. Could be a variety of reasons. Playing for stats not wins. Not caring about defense. Not liking Lafs style this season but I take guys producing increased stats on crap teams with a grain of salt. Laf showed what he could do last season. We need him to get back there and then some. We do need some changes. This NYR window has closed. The coaches will likely be gone. Hopefully Laf and Shesty will be leading our next window in a positive way.

I think it's too late for us even when talking about our next window. We have traded away our young players and traded away our picks to sign players past their prime, in their 30s, that are bottom 9 players masquerading as players eating top minutes.

 

[bhamill]

Are you counting his assists to the other team too?

Nope, but you are free to. Good talk. Hahaha.

 

[bhamill]

I think it's too late for us even when talking about our next window. We have traded away our young players and traded away our picks to sign players past their prime, in their 30s, that are bottom 9 players masquerading as players eating top minutes.

Bottom 9 includes second liners. I think what you wrote could be said about 90% of teams. A “2nd liner” playing top line minutes…

I look at our team and don’t see it as QUITE bleak as you. Laf, Cullye, Perrault are all young present and/or future top six players IMO. Othmann may turn out to be as well. Possibly Berard. We definitely need top six centers for the future, but Miller should be a 1C for at least a few more years and Troch is a fine 2C IF he rebounds. If Mika rebounds too we are pretty solid for a few years at center. We have plenty of bottom to middle six forwards in the pipeline. We can probably fill the bottom six easily with homegrown cheap contracts which can allow us to “buy”/acquire some non homegrown top six talent.
I mean, I understand pessimism, but it’s not the only valid outlook.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think it's too late for us even when talking about our next window. We have traded away our young players and traded away our picks to sign players past their prime, in their 30s, that are bottom 9 players masquerading as players eating top minutes.

I understand your outlook but what young players have we traded?
Lias (not in the NHL) for Will (Young)
Krav (not in the NHL but I'd give him another chance) for a 7th
KK for Borgen.
Chytil (injury concerns) for JT

If we could undue all of those trades and you had all 4 of those young players back would you be really optimistic about our future? I think its natural to take a step back when a window closes. Question will be how long and how far the step back will be.