Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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Friendly reminder that game cards kinda suck and they’re just a lazy way for people to confirm their priors after watching a game.
They're useful for time-frames and not so much for individual games. But friendly reminder that when you see Ryan Lindgren at the bottom 66 times a season, Ryan Lindgren kinda' sucks and you can't blame the game card.
 
People keep saying he looks better, but his TOI has been getting lower. Cuylle has played more than him 3 games in a row now.
 
People keep saying he looks better, but his TOI has been getting lower. Cuylle has played more than him 3 games in a row now.

This team has held him back from the beginning.

I would have much rather thrown him opposite Panarin from Day 1 and let him sink or swim. Top PP unit, the whole 9 yards.

If you play young players as third line grinders and 2nd line depth scoring, don't be surprised when they turn into third line grinders and 2nd line depth scoring.

Best case scenario at this point, unless there are massive changes in how he's used and he lights a fire under his own ass this offseason, is likely that he follows the Kreider trajectory - hit a peak 10 years into his career when he's already being paid top line money.

Hardly the stuff #1 pick dreams are made out of.

I hate this organization's refusal to develop forward scoring prospects the way that literally every other NHL team does.

But, hey, at least Brennan Othmann's in the bottom 6. /sarcasm
 
This team has held him back from the beginning.

I would have much rather thrown him opposite Panarin from Day 1 and let him sink or swim. Top PP unit, the whole 9 yards.

If you play young players as third line grinders and 2nd line depth scoring, don't be surprised when they turn into third line grinders and 2nd line depth scoring.

Best case scenario at this point, unless there are massive changes in how he's used and he lights a fire under his own ass this offseason, is likely that he follows the Kreider trajectory - hit a peak 10 years into his career when he's already being paid top line money.

Hardly the stuff #1 pick dreams are made out of.

I hate this organization's refusal to develop forward scoring prospects the way that literally every other NHL team does.

But, hey, at least Brennan Othmann's in the bottom 6. /sarcasm
At some point we need to start blaming Lafreniere and his refusal to move his feet.
 
Maybe this was mentioned already, but did we lose the "player discussion" thread tag in the HFBoards update?

We lost data from the last year. Username changes, Stickied threads, likes, thread tags, and if you registered the last year, had to re-register.

Word is we may be getting live threads back once they can fix the glitches. We shall see.
 
We lost data from the last year. Username changes, Stickied threads, likes, thread tags, and if you registered the last year, had to re-register.

Word is we may be getting live threads back once they can fix the glitches. We shall see.
Any word on ignored threads?
 
At some point we need to start blaming Lafreniere and his refusal to move his feet.

And Kakko. And Kravtsov. And Chytil. And Lias. And JT Miller before we traded him. And Korpikoski, Jessiman, Lundmark, Brendl, Malhotra, Sundstom, Kovalev, and so on.

I can't think of one top forward prospect that was ever thrust into a top line role and given responsibility. Nope. Gotta play the vets. Gotta earn their dues. Gotta respect seniority. Gotta play the big contract.

But that's okay. I'm sure Othmann and Perreault will be totally different. I'm sure they'll immediately walk into a spot on the top PP unit and in the top 6 with talented linemates where they're expected to score, and not a checking role where thy're paired with uncreative grinders.
 
And Kakko. And Kravtsov. And Chytil. And Lias. And JT Miller before we traded him. And Korpikoski, Jessiman, Lundmark, Brendl, Malhotra, Sundstom, Kovalev, and so on.

I can't think of one top forward prospect that was ever thrust into a top line role and given responsibility. Nope. Gotta play the vets. Gotta earn their dues. Gotta respect seniority. Gotta play the big contract.

But that's okay. I'm sure Othmann and Perreault will be totally different. I'm sure they'll immediately walk into a spot on the top PP unit and in the top 6 with talented linemates where they're expected to score, and not a checking role where thy're paired with uncreative grinders.
Don't forget Marc Savard
 
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This team has held him back from the beginning.

I would have much rather thrown him opposite Panarin from Day 1 and let him sink or swim. Top PP unit, the whole 9 yards.

If you play young players as third line grinders and 2nd line depth scoring, don't be surprised when they turn into third line grinders and 2nd line depth scoring.

Best case scenario at this point, unless there are massive changes in how he's used and he lights a fire under his own ass this offseason, is likely that he follows the Kreider trajectory - hit a peak 10 years into his career when he's already being paid top line money.

Hardly the stuff #1 pick dreams are made out of.

I hate this organization's refusal to develop forward scoring prospects the way that literally every other NHL team does.

But, hey, at least Brennan Othmann's in the bottom 6. /sarcasm

I understand your point and agree with the premise. But at what point is anything actually on the player?

Laf has played with Panarin this season and last and has regressed this season. This season, he’s in a scoring race with Cuylle (who has 200 fewer career games of experience, has gotten less ice time, and has played with lesser players). Cuylle is earning more time and responsibility, while Laf this season looks like a shell of the player he was last playoffs.

At what point do we put a little onus on adults for their own effort and success?

I look at guys like Laf and Cuylle and it draws me back to an old George Bernard Shaw line: “People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them.”
 
I understand your point and agree with the premise. But at what point is anything actually on the player?

Laf has played with Panarin this season and last and has regressed this season. This season, he’s in a scoring race with Cuylle (who has 200 fewer career games of experience, has gotten less ice time, and has played with lesser players). Cuylle is earning more time and responsibility, while Laf this season looks like a shell of the player he was last playoffs.

At what point do we put a little onus on adults for their own effort and success?

I look at guys like Laf and Cuylle and it draws me back to an old George Bernard Shaw line: “People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them.”

Honestly, at this point, this organization doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore in my eyes. At all.

Maybe when they prove that, for once, they can actually draft and develop top flight forward talent, in house, they'd deserve that again.

Cuylle can and should be top 6 this year, you'll get no argument from me on that. Kreider and Zibanejad should have been dropped down in the lineup a long time ago, and the Reilly Smith move never made sense.

As someone who's sick of wishful thinking and naive optimism ("we just have to get into the playoffs and then anything can happen teehee" kind of thinking), I want to see this team build a legitimate contender. The kind they would have been in 2014 and 2015 if Torts hadn't insisted on trading Gaborik (rather than phasing him down into a support role) and holding back guys like Kreider and Zuccarello before he left, and AV hadn't compounded things by obsessing over plugs like Tanner Glass and overestimating what he had in Staal/Girardi.

This organization has been in the same endlessly stupid cycle of "Rebuilding" and then immediately reneging on that the second is collectively prematurely ejaculates over the next big UFA or name on the trading block, only to mire the kids down on the depth chart until they're well into their 20s.

Lafreniere is young and might still figure it out. He's 23. But at this point, so what? You don't win Cups playing FMV for players - you need bargains and steals, and you need players who are worth the money too. Lafreniere wasn't drafted to be a third liner. Neither was Gabe Perreault, and neither is Brennan Othmann. Yet every time a young player comes up in this organization, that's exactly where they find themselves, stuck in this idiotic trade union mentality of incrementally earning dues with seniority...toiling away on the third line, forgetting how to work a powerplay for multiple seasons, just magically hoping the offense that has been there at every step of a player's career will magically reappear when it's time to pay them.

I'm sick of blaming players and coaches for an organization that seems to stand alone in futility in this regard. Seemingly every other team shows itself capable of developing top flight talent at least enough that you can make a compelling case the busts are the player's faults.

No Ranger forward has ever been drafted and developed within the organization and scored 100 points or 50 goals. No homegrown Rangers forward in the draft era is in the Hall of Fame. That's a remarkable streak of futility.

This fish is rotten from the head, and fans like me are sick of buying are way into an ECF appearance every few years with mercenaries and TDL acquisitions, while largely relying on goaltending and puckluck.

I want to f***ing dominate. I want to have the best line in the entire NHL. I want multiple 100 point scorers on the same line. I want an offense that can score off the rush and the cycle. I want to win a Stanley Cup instead of pretending all playoff berths are equally created lottery tickets and we should just be happy to be there. I want a homegrown guy with a cap hit under 3M vying for the league lead in scoring and posterizing NHL defenders nightly. I don't want to be arguing about ice time for top prospects who've produced at every single level until coming to this team, to this organization, because some lazy, allergic to contact vet somehow merits a season and a half of leash to "figure themselves out" and the blue chip prospect gets benched for every meaningless turnover in an October game.
 
No Ranger forward has ever been drafted and developed within the organization and scored 100 points or 50 goals. No homegrown Rangers forward in the draft era is in the Hall of Fame. That's a remarkable streak of futility.
Kreider did.

(reply will be....okay...only one in like forever...)

But I see you're on a roll....please continue.
 

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