Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Profet]

If he’s not going to be a premier scorer, I’d move him to C and force him to play a two-way game.

A center who can't bother to back check?

That will end well.

 

[noncents]

Laf + Lindgren for Guhle + Newhook

who says no

 

[Daves a mess]

I’d trade Laf + for Dach or Newhook.

Anybody do Laf for Zegras and a 2nd? Headcase for misplaced ego.

I cant stand K Miller, he's a bonehead, but he's at least been playing hard lately.

I've been really salty about Laf since the first week, post contract signing. One thing trying to make plays and being off, a whole other thing when you do everything in your power to not do anything at all.

Laf has cheesecake running through his veins

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I’d trade Laf + for Dach or Newhook.

ok come on thats just dumb

 

[NickyFotiu]

I mean "yeah" to all of this

The problem is and always has been the player here.

Yeah we can say development & point to others as well but when is it HIS fault?

It is RIGHT f***ING NOW his goddamn fault for sure.

He's not a f***ING KID ANYMORE

I'm curious what all the development folks think happens with NHL coaches during an NHL season. Do they think younger players on other teams get called in to daily/weekly on ice skills improvement sessions with a head coach or assistant coaches? There may be a bit of specialized extra sessions here and there to help a young guy but I do not think it is anything like they have in their minds during a regular season. The closest thing I saw to this was Jamie Ludmark. He was sent down to the AHL. I saw him staying after a normal practice shooting on a goalie with somebody feeding him for about a half hour.

Around a week ago I saw a former Ranger look pretty awkward trying to skate backwards. It reminded me of being a little kid in a hockey clinic having to do backward crossovers and seeing how awkward some kids looked. I was surprised at how a NHL pro would look awkward doing that. 50 years ago maybe for some forwards but today? Seemed unusual.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

dach and newhook are actual busts laf is more of a disappointment

he’s still a top-6 winger

 

[Profet]

I'm curious what all the development folks think happens with NHL coaches during an NHL season.

Accountability. That's what happens.

Right now the only players who are held accountable are the younger players.

Vets can literally do no wrong.

This creates a culture of kids afraid to make mistakes, a culture of kids who follow the lead of lazy vets.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Accountability. That's what happens.

Right now the only players who are held accountable are the younger players.

Vets can literally do no wrong.

This creates a culture of kids afraid to make mistakes, a culture of kids who follow the lead of lazy vets.

I think proven gets more of a leash than unproven for most teams in most sports but we have seen CK have a healthy scratch this year while Laf has not. Vesey obviously gets scratched often. Brodz as well. They are not top 6 guys but they are vets. You may have a point regarding the amount of scratches though. Only problem is it kind of contradicts your other point. If the kids are afraid to make mistakes then why would they follow lazy vets. Laziness would get you benched just as fast if not faster than a mistake. I see many fans on all forums saying the same things. Which I find humorous because it would mean every coach and every organization does the same things. Teams love for their young guys to play well but just like most jobs there is a learning curve in the NHL. I do not think its about age as much as experience.

 

[Profet]

I think proven gets more of a leash than unproven for most teams in most sports but we have seen CK have a healthy scratch this year while Laf has not. Vesey obviously gets scratched often. Brodz as well. They are not top 6 guys but they are vets. You may have a point regarding the amount of scratches though. Only problem is it kind of contradicts your other point. If the kids are afraid to make mistakes then why would they follow lazy vets. Laziness would get you benched just as fast if not faster than a mistake. I see many fans on all forums saying the same things. Which I find humorous because it would mean every coach and every organization does the same things. Teams love for their young guys to play well but just like most jobs there is a learning curve in the NHL. I do not think its about age as much as experience.

I disagree.

Most star youngsters get thrown into high usage roles out of necessity. They know they aren't losing their spots. They are given a much longer leash then our players who know they will lose their spots at the first mistake.

The kids follow the lazy vets because that's who they are told to follow. Panarin does dumb shit and isn't held accountable... Laf does the same dumb shit and also isn't held accountable.

Kakko made his own mistakes. Not following the lead of Kreider, Zib, Panarin, and he sat.

I don't think my points are contradictory. Players aren't held accountable and they aren't held accountable in a variety of ways.

 

[CasusBelli]

jesus christ

I'm down on Laf but Dach and Newhook are shit. and you'd add to Laf?

You’re right; I overreacted. But a young third line center at this point solves a need and gets rid of what will be a dreadful contract if he stays with us.

 

[its not that serious]

I disagree.

Most star youngsters get thrown into high usage roles out of necessity. They know they aren't losing their spots. They are given a much longer leash then our players who know they will lose their spots at the first mistake.

The kids follow the lazy vets because that's who they are told to follow. Panarin does dumb shit and isn't held accountable... Laf does the same dumb shit and also isn't held accountable.

Kakko made his own mistakes. Not following the lead of Kreider, Zib, Panarin, and he sat.

I don't think my points are contradictory. Players aren't held accountable and they aren't held accountable in a variety of ways.

There is accountability for both veterans and younger players. Zibanejad and Kreider both lost ice time and got bumped down the depth chart. Technically Kreider was scratched as much as Kakko. Even Vesey, he averaged over 10 minutes a game in 80 games last year, and has been scratched just about all year. Cuylle and Chytil were given a more ice time as they earned it. Edstrom made the team, Rempe made it, had a stint in Hartford and came back better for it. Berard got a look, but he'll be better off in the AHL for awhile too.

Returning veteran forwards and younger guys have all been shuffled based on performance. Except for Trocheck, Panarin and Lafreniere.

I don't see much reason for Panarin or Trocheck to lose ice time, they're too important. Panarin turns the puck over but he has 20 points more than any other forward on the team (excluding JT Miller). If he executes some of his passes better he likely has fewer turnovers and an even bigger lead in points. Trocheck is possibly the best faceoff guy in the league, and led the forwards in ice time last year. So even though they're noticeably not at least year's level, the team's chances of winning lessen if they play less. But if Lafreniere sits a few shifts because he doesn't want to backcheck that wouldn't do any harm.

Lafreniere certainly hasn't "lost his spot at the first mistake," he's made many, all year. In my view Lafreniere has been held less accountable than all forwards this season. The rest have been held accountable, at least somewhat, but Lafreniere not at all. He's the best example of someone who hasn't had a message sent to him yet, for the mistakes he's made. It's been worse lately, so maybe soon.

And I agree with @NickyFotiu ... If hypothetically, the bad habits of the vets are rubbing off, and the young guys were doing whatever the older guys were doing wrong, then there would be no point in rewarding them more ice time anyway would there? And even if the vets weren't being punished for the same mistakes, but the younger players were, by being benched or scratched, couldn't that maybe teach them to stop making those mistakes while they're still developing and before they became habits?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Get him off Panarins line, replace Zibanejad on the pp with him. I'm doubtful there's any 1st over all picks in this league that are on pp2, you can't build confidence without being counted on for the pp. Are we seriously sitting him for Kreider and Zib on pp1 at this point??? Cmon those guys had all year to prove they deserved their ice.

He has been off Breads line for much of the time since the JT Miller trade. I think guys have to take personal responsibility. When looking at that Bread line I see all 3 guys giving less effort than last season not 1 nor 2. I'm sure you heard the say that a guy shot his XXXX. I said this last season. I think our team played way over their heads last year and saw it still was not enough. Then several of them mailed in the effort this season. The effort stuff did not start this season. It just accelerated. We depended on goaltending and PP. Once those declined all our other 5 on 5 issues including age/skating speed/physicality got even worse.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Guess we're back to trading Lafreniere for scraps again eh while ignoring the organizations failing with young players. Let's just keep doing this over and over again, Perrault will make a nice 3rd line pp2 guy in a few years if we don't fix this shit.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

He has been off Breads line for much of the time since the JT Miller trade. I think guys have to take personal responsibility. When looking at that Bread line I see all 3 guys giving less effort than last season not 1 nor 2. I'm sure you heard the say that a guy shot his XXXX. I said this last season. I think our team played way over their heads last year and saw it still was not enough. Then several of them mailed in the effort this season. The effort stuff did not start this season. It just accelerated. We depended on goaltending and PP. Once those declined all our other 5 on 5 issues including age/skating speed/physicality got even worse.

I'm not concerned with any of the older guys they can do whatever they want, we're not a cup team but this season should be about getting Lafreniere back on track and imo it's all confidence with him. If this team fails with this player they are the worse franchise in the league. He is an easy fix, all you gotta do is make him feel wanted and not as a 5th wheel of the car. Confidence is huge with him, put him on pp1, feed him 20 mins, bench him for a night, whatever it is that needs to be done but do something, trading for older players to fix problems we created is ridiculous

 

[TGWL]

During last offseason, we probably could have gotten Necas with something involving Laf. At this rate we can't even get Kakko...

 

[TGWL]

Guess we're back to trading Lafreniere for scraps again eh while ignoring the organizations failing with young players. Let's just keep doing this over and over again, Perrault will make a nice 3rd line pp2 guy in a few years if we don't fix this shit.

I think most are kidding with trading Lafreniere for scraps. But at some point you have to stop blaming the organization when you see such laziness from the same player, over and over, and over again. At some point the player needs to take some accountability for the performance and effort shown.

It's unacceptable to quit on plays and it happens way too frequently with him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think most are kidding with trading Lafreniere for scraps. But at some point you have to stop blaming the organization when you see such laziness from the same player, over and over, and over again. At some point the player needs to take some accountability for the performance and effort shown.

It's unacceptable to quit on plays and it happens way too frequently with him.

I played hockey from the time I was around 8 years old. Even as an 8 year old I knew if I hustled I got praise. Later on while playing on teams with more experienced better skilled players than myself I always knew if I hustled more than everyone I got more ice time. Hustle is not some mystery skill that needs to be "developed" imo. You can go watch 10 year old girls playing soccer and hear people yelling "way to hustle".

To Laf's credit he hustled as much (or more) as anyone on our team in last years playoffs. I would show him those tapes and ask him how do we get that guy back.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Those players on the bad teams are handed all the minutes, pp1 included and the confidence of coach and team. At some point this team has to treat this player like a 1st overall pick and play the guts out of him, he will be better for it. It's not like we currently have a ton of better options

I've said this for years.

The Rangers are the only NHL franchise that consistently buries top picks in the depth chart as third liners, incrementally increases their ice time over 5 seasons, and then acts surprised when they peak as second line wingers.

Chris Kreider was an example of successful development by them and it took a DECADE to get him to his peak.

This league is FULL of young, dynamic players who come into this league and within a few seasons are exciting, electric, high energy scorers who are capable of playing first line minutes against the best defenders and scoring over a point per game.

(EDIT: Fixed) The Rangers have had ZERO drafted FORWARDS in the entire history of the NHL draft (so almost 60 years now!) score a 100 point season.

Yes, Leetch, but defenseman are different because you really can't bury defensemen too far down on ice time without compromising the endurance of the top pair in today's game - most of the difference in minutes among D pairings boils down to special teams play, honestly. Plus D still get to play with top forwards even when they are not top pair, and the forwards drive the offensive production much more than the D does.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I've said this for years.

The Rangers are the only NHL franchise that consistently buries top picks in the depth chart as third liners, incrementally increases their ice time over 5 seasons, and then acts surprised when they peak as second line wingers.

Chris Kreider was an example of successful development by them and it took a DECADE to get him to his peak.

This league is FULL of young, dynamic players who come into this league and within a few seasons are exciting, electric, high energy scorers who are capable of playing first line minutes against the best defenders and scoring over a point per game.

The Rangers have only had ONE drafted FORWARD in the entire history of the NHL draft (so almost 60 years now!) score a 100 point season, and that was Mike Rogers.

Yes, Leetch, but defenseman are different because you really can't bury defensemen too far down on ice time without compromising the endurance of the top pair in today's game - most of the difference in minutes among D pairings boils down to special teams play, honestly. Plus D still get to play with top forwards even when they are not top pair, and the forwards drive the offensive production much more than the D does.

Mike Rodgers was not a Rangers draft pick and he scored 100 points twice before he even became a NY Ranger.

 

[ArPanet]

Trade Laf to a real, modern style hockey team and he will probably blow up. Meanwhile, JT Miller is already showing signs of reverting to what we had when he was here. Are the Rangers better at undeveloping players?

 

[noncents]

the reason laf isn't held accountable is because the rangers country club isn't based on veteran status. it's based on cap hit. Laf makes big boy bucks. he's now immune to punitive measures.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Mike Rodgers was not a Rangers draft pick and he scored 100 points twice before he even became a NY Ranger.

Disregard. LOL. Went off memory (that was before I was alive), and somehow had a Mandela moment on that one. IDK why I thought he JT Miller'd (drafted left and came back), but...fixed my original post.

Amazingly this correction makes my point even more salient about how inept this organization has been at developing scoring forwards through the draft.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Disregard. LOL. Went off memory (that was before I was alive), and somehow had a Mandela moment on that one. IDK why I thought he JT Miller'd (drafted left and came back), but...fixed my original post.

Amazingly this correction makes my point even more salient about how inept this organization has been at developing scoring forwards through the draft.

Yeah Im old so I lived through it. Mike Rodgers was one of the cool guys that came to the NHL after it merged with the WHA. I always wanted him and his teammate Blaine Stoughton on the Rangers. I never understood why Hartford gave Rodgers to us so cheaply. I also didn't understand what happened with Stoughton. Blaine was so good for a while then his career crashed. We also got a few other cool WHA guys later on. You may have heard of them. Their names were Robbie Ftorek, Messier, Gartner, and Gretzky.

 

[Larrybiv]

the reason laf isn't held accountable is because the rangers country club isn't based on veteran status. it's based on cap hit. Laf makes big boy bucks. he's now immune to punitive measures.

Yeah, hopefully it's NOT that, but it does seem like the minute he got that contract, then after a few games he literally bcame less effective. Floating around, very similar to Kreider......and therein lies the point.

If I'm Laffy, (or any younger player) that gets repremanded and held accountable......you cannot expect them to NOT feel like, wtf? Why do the vets get all the leniancy? A player is a player is a player. Again, it has less to do with production, but more about giving it 100%.

We, as fans deserve that. Every teams fans deserve that. It's called integrity. So Laffy, now that you got a nice payday, is this what we can expect here on out? And now I ask WHY? Because the other's get away with it? You see......this is the culture that has been going on here for decades.

These are not hockey players, they are "entertainers, movie stars, commercial and advertising stars, it's the NYC way.

I'll never forget when I ran into Rod Gilbert near the Garden outside of McDonalds. so there was a legit star, a great performer, with amazing integrity. Oh, what a nice person. R.I.P. Mr. Gilbert
If he were playing today, he would be shaming his teammates for lack of effort.

 

[TGWL]

Lafreniere isn't blowing up anywhere until he skates. Last season he skated for the first time since he's been in the organization. This season he's back to doing that stupid 1 hop to pretend to try, but then, oh wait, I'm gassed and too tired to skate. You don't get around people being flat-footed or on cruise control.

Maybe you can use the argument that he looks to others on the team to make ozone and dzone plays because he's not viewing himself as the guy to carry the team, but suck it up and skate.

We're passed the mid-way point and even if you double his speed burst over 20mph this season, he doesn't come close to achieving the way he skated last season.