Value of: Alex Vlasic in a trade

[HawksDub89]

Lafreniere and Schneider being waved off.

Vlasic is a better and more valuable player. Hope this helps.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That's fine, but it's like people are acting like that is a pittance for Vlasic.

I assume the alleged analytic impacts are fair overvaluing what the player would return in a trade.

He's a good young player, but in reality he's more of a luxury than a foundational piece.

Doesn't make any sense for the Hawks to trade and I understand that.

What more does he need to show to be considered a foundational piece in your eyes? He's a 23 y/o 6'6 dman who faces arguably the most difficult deployments in the league with a terrible supporting cast.

In terms of QoC and QoC_def, he faced the 8th hardest assignments of any dman, and is the only one in the top 10 that actually has negative QoT metrics.

And he has 5 years left at $4.6M, which is an absolute steal for a top pairing shut down defenseman who can skate and make plays like he can. A player like that is worth $8M+ all day long in today's NHL.

He's an incredibly valuable asset.

 

[Gurglesons]

What more does he need to show to be considered a foundational piece in your eyes? He's a 23 y/o 6'6 dman who faces arguably the most difficult deployments in the league with a terrible supporting cast.

In terms of QoC and QoC_def, he faced the 8th hardest assignments of any dman, and is the only one in the top 10 that actually has negative QoT metrics.

And he has 5 years left at $4.6M, which is an absolute steal for a top pairing shut down defenseman who can skate and make plays like he can. A player like that is worth $8M+ all day long in today's NHL.

He's an incredibly valuable asset.

Aren't you a John Marino fan too?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Aren't you a John Marino fan too?

Let's try to stay focused on the topic.

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's try to stay focused on the topic.

I heard the same arguments for John Marino for years. Great contract, amazing defensive player according to the analytics.

He's returned a 3rd and Ty Smith and two 2nds.

And he has the added benefit of being a RHD.

 

[Chainshot]

I heard the same arguments for John Marino for years. Great contract, amazing defensive player according to the analytics.

He's returned a 3rd and Ty Smith and two 2nds.

And he has the added benefit of being a RHD.

I missed where Marino grew five inches and added 30 lbs.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Really not a big fan of Lafreniere. He's been on the verge of breaking out for 3 seasons and regressed this year. Now he has a big contract kicking in next year ($2.85 million more than Vlasic). He needs to prove he's worth that contract before I'd consider him a guy worth trading real assets for. If NYR wants to pure cap dump him (Lafreniere for nothing) then cool, but Vlasic is a non-starter.

 

[Gurglesons]

I missed where Marino grew five inches and added 30 lbs.

I just don't see Vlasic returning much besides a 1st and a prospect similar to what Jake Muzzin got.

He's a great player, but defensive minded D just don't return a lot in trades especially LHD.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I heard the same arguments for John Marino for years. Great contract, amazing defensive player according to the analytics.

He's returned a 3rd and Ty Smith and two 2nds.

And he has the added benefit of being a RHD.

Let's stay on topic. I'll repeat the question:

What more does Vlasic need to show to be considered a foundational piece in your eyes?

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's stay on topic. I'll repeat the question:

What more does Vlasic need to show to be considered a foundational piece in your eyes?

Be a foundational player?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Be a foundational player?

So what specifically does he need to do in order to reach that level - what is he lacking?

 

[Gurglesons]

So what specifically does he need to do in order to reach that level - what is he lacking?

Teams don't build their bluelines around Alex Vlasics.

Jake Muzzin, Brian Dumoulin, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Dennis Seidenberg, Erik Cernak.

These are players that are on championship teams, but aren't core.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Teams don't build their bluelines around Alex Vlasics.

Why not? 6'6 mobile shutdown dman seems like a pretty good place to start.

Jake Muzzin, Brian Dumoulin, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Dennis Seidenberg, Erik Cernak.

You don't think Hjalmarsson was core to the Hawks 2013 and 2015 cups? The guy who averaged 23 and 26 mins per game?

Lol okay.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I just don't see Vlasic returning much besides a 1st and a prospect similar to what Jake Muzzin got.

He's a great player, but defensive minded D just don't return a lot in trades especially LHD.

Vlasic quietly had a nice year on the powerplay.

13/99 amongst all Defenseman with at least 25 powerplay minutes on the season in terms of Powerplay Points per 60.

Something to keep an eye on moving forward if that became an element of his game. It's crowded with young guys that will get powerplay chances at least but if Vlasic proves better, he'd get the spot longterm all the same.

He's a "defensive minded LHD" but he's also huge and skates well. Big defensemen that skate well will never go out of style.

 

[BHFAN92]

Because Korchinski hasn't established himself as a bonafide top-4 dman and therefore teams would not willing to trade the type of player I want the Hawks to acquire. If Korchinski would get Paterka back in trade then I would trade Korchinski rather than Vlasic.

I think I already explained that in the original post ... but whatever.

JJ Peterka is waaaay to light of a return for a #1 Dman who is signed to term and great contract

 

[Gurglesons]

Why not? 6'6 mobile shutdown dman seems like a pretty good place to start.

You don't think Hjalmarsson was core to the Hawks 2013 and 2015 cups? The guy who averaged 23 and 26 mins per game?

Lol okay.

I think that the core to the Hawks dynasty on D was Seabrook and Keith. If you think Vlasic is a Seabrook, then I guess I can see why you'd view him as a foundational / core player.

I think the idea that Vlasic for a player like JJ Peterka or Lafrenière who are top line winger potentials that fit for over 7-8 years with the franchise is "totally light" in terms of a return is frankly ridiculous.

 

[Gurglesons]

Vlasic quietly had a nice year on the powerplay.

13/99 amongst all Defenseman with at least 25 powerplay minutes on the season in terms of Powerplay Points per 60.

Something to keep an eye on moving forward if that became an element of his game. It's crowded with young guys that will get powerplay chances at least but if Vlasic proves better, he'd get the spot longterm all the same.

He's a "defensive minded LHD" but he's also huge and skates well. Big defensemen that skate well will never go out of style.

I agree, which is why I could see them try to cash in on him for a foundational forward up front with Bedard and likely Misa to help accelerate the rebuild.

A # 3 / 4 in the mold of Vlasic is much easier to acquire than a franchise wing. And that isn't a slight to Vlasic.

If you feel that he's a # 1 / 2 on a championship squad, then I guess I can see where you're coming from, but I just don't see it in his game.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I agree, which is why I could see them try to cash in on him for a foundational forward up front with Bedard and likely Misa to help accelerate the rebuild.

If Vlasic is not a cornerstone, then Lafreniere is even further away from foundational forward.

 

[Gurglesons]

If Vlasic is not a cornerstone, then Lafreniere is even further away from foundational forward.

I guess my retort to that would be you aren't getting a peak Lafreniere for a Vlasic level player.

The concept here is you are selling on an asset that has a more consistent floor, but an easier asset to replace for a potential franchise winger in Laf or Peterka.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

Really not a big fan of Lafreniere. He's been on the verge of breaking out for 3 seasons and regressed this year. Now he has a big contract kicking in next year ($2.85 million more than Vlasic). He needs to prove he's worth that contract before I'd consider him a guy worth trading real assets for. If NYR wants to pure cap dump him (Lafreniere for nothing) then cool, but Vlasic is a non-starter.

Honestly I don’t even know that I’d want him for free.

I’d rather save that cap space for a different UFA down the road, I think. Never been a fan of his.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I guess my retort to that would be you aren't getting a peak Lafreniere for a Vlasic level player.

I'm not understanding what this means. They're practically the same age (4 months apart). I guess something about Lafreniere having a theoretical higher ceiling in terms of room to grow, but Lafreniere has been on the verge of a breakout for 3 years that hasn't happened.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not understanding what this means. They're practically the same age (4 months apart). I guess something about Lafreniere having a theoretical higher ceiling in terms of room to grow, but Lafreniere has been on the verge of a breakout for 3 years that hasn't happened.

NHL teams are going to value a franchise level winger over a defensive specialist on D with size.

Maybe Lafreniere is the wrong comparable. Let's use the Peterka argument which a Hawks fan just say is "way too light".

 

[WarriorofTime]

NHL teams are going to value a franchise level winger over a defensive specialist on D with size.

But why project a whole new level for Lafreniere and Vlasic staying stagnant/arguably even regressing a bit

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

NHL teams are going to value a franchise level winger over a defensive specialist on D with size.

Are you implying Lafreniere is or is on the verge of becoming a franchise winger? Not even close.

He produces at the rate of a good third liner so far in his career.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

NHL teams are going to value a franchise level winger over a defensive specialist on D with size.

I don’t agree if you just mean a top line wing. I mean look at how teams draft. Look at how many recent Cup champs had big mobile D.

Franchise level winger? If you mean like Marner, Kucherov - sure. They’re different than Laf/Peterka, at least for now.