Well back then there was actual defense instead of Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar and Lane Hutson on every pairing and Zach Benson, Nick Robertson and Alex Newhook on every 3rd line. Only 3 players were able to score 96 points in a season, Crosby Malkin and Ovechkin. All 3 stopped being able to do it really quickly too. 96 points was 10th in 2019. Getzlaf was 2nd in 2014 with 87, which is the 2019 equivalent of 116, and 8th in PPG from 2008-2018. They both played PK including on cup winning runs where Getzlaf played 3:36 of PK per game as a sophomore(probably the 2024 equivalent of like 2:30 or something like that). Personally, I think it makes no difference. Both are big elite scorers who played PK. I'm picking Barkov because he's much better at faceoffs. If Getzlaf was at 56% faceoffs he'd probably have a selke too. It's voted on so it doesn't take much more than a good defensive team, PK time, high point totals and good faceoff % from which Getzlaf was only missing the faceoffs.
Aleksander Barkov Or Ryan Getzlaf?
- Thread starter DitchMarner
- Start date
ZegrassyKnoll
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2016
- 963
- 1,590
Anybody who says Barkov easily is crazy.
The argument could absolutely be made for Sasha but Getz was an elite player for many years
The argument could absolutely be made for Sasha but Getz was an elite player for many years
- Oct 10, 2007
- 26,926
- 14,675
ZegrassyKnoll
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2016
- 963
- 1,590
A bunch of people were reacting with laughing emojis when I made a comment about Getzlaf being a top 3-5 center in the league during his best couple of years. Appearently it's a laughable opinion even though Getzlaf has a #2 finish for the Hart Trophy, which isn't even a trophy for centers only, but for all players across the board.
In other words, lots of people on HFboards nowadays must either be too young to remember Getzlaf in his prime, or have just forgotten how good he was because of some mediocre seasons at the end of his career.
Not saying he was better than Barkov. When it's all said and done, I'm sure Barkov will come out with the better career. But Getzlaf can absolutely match his peak.
ZegrassyKnoll
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2016
- 963
- 1,590
Yeah there’s just not many players who could completely control a game like Getz could.
And that list gets even smaller when you consider how many players on that list would also be willing to drop the gloves for their teammates any night of the week
Like was said earlier in the thread I think a lot of the top centers after Crosby and Malkin in the late 2000s-mid 2010s are probably starting to be underrated due to the lower scoring era and how much scoring has exploded recently. Getz would have paced for over 100 at least a few times in this era.
Yes, that also. I am too lazy to compare with the scoring inflation, but today the treshold for a forward being elite, seems to be 100 points scored. The treshold used to be scoring a point per game.
HFpapi
Registered User
I personally think the answer is Barkov for both but in Getzlaf's defense, people really need to stop prioritising raw point totals over scoring finishes when evaluating cross-era.
And yes, Getzlaf and Barkov played in different eras despite being so close in time. Getzlaf peaked at a time where 87 points won you the scoring title and Barkov is peaking at a time when 100 assists doesn't even give you the outright league lead.
While 96 > 91, 2nd place in league scoring >> 10th
And yes, Getzlaf and Barkov played in different eras despite being so close in time. Getzlaf peaked at a time where 87 points won you the scoring title and Barkov is peaking at a time when 100 assists doesn't even give you the outright league lead.
While 96 > 91, 2nd place in league scoring >> 10th
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
- Jan 16, 2005
- 9,556
- 16,041
I don't understand how Barkov is leading in terms of who had the better career, especially by this wide of a margin. (As of now more than 76% of people said that Barkov had the better career).
The difference in their offensive production is massive. Looking at where they ranked in the scoring race (which we need to do, because Barkov peaked when the league was higher scoring), Getzlaf has four of the five best seasons (2nd, T-6th, T-10th and T-11th, vs 10th for Barkov). From 2008 to 2017 (a full decade), Getzlaf was 8th in scoring and T-8th in PPG (min 300 GP). If I use a shorter period (2008 to 2015), Getzlaf looks even better - 7th in scoring, T-5th in PPG. I can't find any similar timeframe for Barkov.
It's not just about the stats, it's also about how the players were perceived. Getzlaf has 3 of the top 4 seasons between them in terms of where they ranked in Hart voting (2nd, 6th and 7th vs 6th). Barkov never finished higher than 5th in voting for the year-end all-star team (Getzlaf surpassed that three times).
Getzlaf scored a fair bit more per game in the playoffs, and he did this during a lower-scoring era (so on any type of "adjusted" basis, he'd be even further ahead). Both players were the #1 forward on a Stanley Cup winning team. Granted, Barkov had one more trip to the Stanley Cup finals, but Getzlaf had three trips to the conference finals (one as unquestionably his team's best player, and one more as at least arguably his team's best player).
Obviously, Barkov is better defensively. Two Selke trophies (and one more year as runner-up) is significant. But Getzlaf was quite strong defensively, and he got some fringe support for the Selke in a number of seasons. If you look at the so-called advanced stats, Getzlaf actually does better in terms of relative Corsi and Fenwick (5v5, over the span of their careers - which also includes several of Getzlaf's declining years). Their defensive zone starts are similar (both round to 51% at 5v5). Barkov averages 27 seconds more per game on the PK (which amounts to one extra PK shift per game - which is a positive, but it's not a huge difference either).
I don't understand how Barkov has had the better career, when he's played in almost 400 fewer games, has fared much worse in the scoring race and for the Hart trophy, has fewer deep playoff runs, and scores at a significantly worse rate in the postseason. I think you'd have to put an unreasonably high value on the Selke trophy to conclude, today, that Barkov has had the better career. (I agree there's a good chance he'll eventually surpassed Getzlaf though).
The difference in their offensive production is massive. Looking at where they ranked in the scoring race (which we need to do, because Barkov peaked when the league was higher scoring), Getzlaf has four of the five best seasons (2nd, T-6th, T-10th and T-11th, vs 10th for Barkov). From 2008 to 2017 (a full decade), Getzlaf was 8th in scoring and T-8th in PPG (min 300 GP). If I use a shorter period (2008 to 2015), Getzlaf looks even better - 7th in scoring, T-5th in PPG. I can't find any similar timeframe for Barkov.
It's not just about the stats, it's also about how the players were perceived. Getzlaf has 3 of the top 4 seasons between them in terms of where they ranked in Hart voting (2nd, 6th and 7th vs 6th). Barkov never finished higher than 5th in voting for the year-end all-star team (Getzlaf surpassed that three times).
Getzlaf scored a fair bit more per game in the playoffs, and he did this during a lower-scoring era (so on any type of "adjusted" basis, he'd be even further ahead). Both players were the #1 forward on a Stanley Cup winning team. Granted, Barkov had one more trip to the Stanley Cup finals, but Getzlaf had three trips to the conference finals (one as unquestionably his team's best player, and one more as at least arguably his team's best player).
Obviously, Barkov is better defensively. Two Selke trophies (and one more year as runner-up) is significant. But Getzlaf was quite strong defensively, and he got some fringe support for the Selke in a number of seasons. If you look at the so-called advanced stats, Getzlaf actually does better in terms of relative Corsi and Fenwick (5v5, over the span of their careers - which also includes several of Getzlaf's declining years). Their defensive zone starts are similar (both round to 51% at 5v5). Barkov averages 27 seconds more per game on the PK (which amounts to one extra PK shift per game - which is a positive, but it's not a huge difference either).
I don't understand how Barkov has had the better career, when he's played in almost 400 fewer games, has fared much worse in the scoring race and for the Hart trophy, has fewer deep playoff runs, and scores at a significantly worse rate in the postseason. I think you'd have to put an unreasonably high value on the Selke trophy to conclude, today, that Barkov has had the better career. (I agree there's a good chance he'll eventually surpassed Getzlaf though).
