Albany says no to ECHL

[CrazyEddie20]

Pretty interesting write up:
http://thehockeywriters.com/ahl-return-to-albany-in-2018-19/

More unsourced garbage written by a pie-in-the-sky fanboi.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

More unsourced garbage written by a pie-in-the-sky fanboi.

Big name corporate sources have proved the last year and a half that they are a joke and aren't real media. They are fake news.

 

[ckg927]

Big name corporate sources have proved the last year and a half that they are a joke and aren't real media. They are fake news.

Please....let's not bring politics & news, etc here. We like to use sports as an ESCAPE from news.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Please....let's not bring politics & news, etc here. We like to use sports as an ESCAPE from news.

Local media operations are no different. They have to find some backing to stay afloat because most of them in today's world can't turn a profit because the masses are not interested in buying a paper and the TV operations are no different. They are almost never locally owned and they are corporate, that is the overall point. If the national media outlets can be a joke why can't these local ones on stories like this? Politics isn't even a thing for the record. But the sheep are too stupid to understand this. Its a bunch of rich criminals who hate the rest of humanity, unfortunately. Politics is the old mafia on steroids. Its a divide and conquer concept. It is interesting you say ESCAPE which is like DISTRACT. This is why we have sports and Hollywood and the idiot box so people have no idea what's going on. Its why common sense no longer exists!

So why can't this article be right or have some legs to it? I'm just curious.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Local media operations are no different. They have to find some backing to stay afloat because most of them in today's world can't turn a profit because the masses are not interested in buying a paper and the TV operations are no different. They are almost never locally owned and they are corporate, that is the overall point. If the national media outlets can be a joke why can't these local ones on stories like this? Politics isn't even a thing for the record. But the sheep are too stupid to understand this. Its a bunch of rich criminals who hate the rest of humanity, unfortunately. Politics is the old mafia on steroids. Its a divide and conquer concept. It is interesting you say ESCAPE which is like DISTRACT. This is why we have sports and Hollywood and the idiot box so people have no idea what's going on. Its why common sense no longer exists!

So why can't this article be right or have some legs to it? I'm just curious.

Phase one: Unions ruined hockey!

Phase two: ???

Phase three: Vote Trump!

 

[RowdyFan42]

When it comes to minor pro, I'd agree...BUT the Tri-City Valley Cats of the New York-Penn League has done very well nearly every summer. They have NEVER drawn fewer than 100K since they've been in the NYPL.

Single-A short season. Literally just above rookie ball. Barely professional. Trust me, fans aren't coming for the baseball (though the team tends to do fairly well in the standings), they're coming for the giveaways and the mascot races and the fireworks. They're coming for a dirt-cheap fun night out. And because it's short-season, you don't have those pesky early spring and early fall games dragging attendance down.

Not necessarily, I think fans there just know when they are getting a solid bang for their buck. The AFL Firebirds drew VERY well, they averaged 10,000 or more fans per game. The greedy owners thought they could do better in Indianapolis and sold the Firebirds which backfired few years later. He used the excuse the AFL had outgrown small markets like Albany. Fans refused to support the low level AFL2 product called the Conquest, then rebranded as Firebirds again. The Devils have lousy promotions, barely broadcast any games on radio, lousy logo and identity, and its costs well over $100.00 for a family of four to go to a game in Albany. The Valleycats entertain people, giveaway promotions, fireworks, clean ballpark, and even compete with nearby Saratoga Springs horse racing in August which is basically major league horse racing.

Points of order:

• You're calling the owner of the Firebirds "greedy"? The team allegedly lost money in all but one of its 11 seasons in Albany. Maybe major-league sports franchises are mere playthings of the rich these days, but not so much in the minors. You can't expect people to willingly lose money for your amusement. These people aren't running charities here.
• It wasn't an excuse, it was the truth. The league was growing fast; it had always been a mix of major league markets and mid-size cities like Albany, but they were quickly expanding into more big cities and gaining national exposure, and the cost of business was going up. Albany simply didn't have the corporate base necessary to support a growing league. Eventually the AFL got too big for its britches and collapsed under its own weight.
• The Conquest probably would have done better if they had been the Firebirds from the start. Alas, the "original" 'Birds were still in existence when af2 came to Albany, so that road was closed. Also, they were co-owned with the River Rats, so that should give you an idea of what the financial situation was like.
• You keep bringing up the cost of Devils tickets. People around here don't want to hear the simple fact that those prices are fairly reasonable compared to the rest of the league. If that really is the sticking point you make it out to be (and I tend to believe it is), the AHL will never again be successful in Albany. Nor will the ECHL, for that matter. The local skinflints can enjoy their college hockey and their Rangers games on MSG.

 

[Nightsquad]

Single-A short season. Literally just above rookie ball. Barely professional. Trust me, fans aren't coming for the baseball (though the team tends to do fairly well in the standings), they're coming for the giveaways and the mascot races and the fireworks. They're coming for a dirt-cheap fun night out. And because it's short-season, you don't have those pesky early spring and early fall games dragging attendance down.



Points of order:

• You're calling the owner of the Firebirds "greedy"? The team allegedly lost money in all but one of its 11 seasons in Albany. Maybe major-league sports franchises are mere playthings of the rich these days, but not so much in the minors. You can't expect people to willingly lose money for your amusement. These people aren't running charities here.
• It wasn't an excuse, it was the truth. The league was growing fast; it had always been a mix of major league markets and mid-size cities like Albany, but they were quickly expanding into more big cities and gaining national exposure, and the cost of business was going up. Albany simply didn't have the corporate base necessary to support a growing league. Eventually the AFL got too big for its britches and collapsed under its own weight.
• The Conquest probably would have done better if they had been the Firebirds from the start. Alas, the "original" 'Birds were still in existence when af2 came to Albany, so that road was closed. Also, they were co-owned with the River Rats, so that should give you an idea of what the financial situation was like.
• You keep bringing up the cost of Devils tickets. People around here don't want to hear the simple fact that those prices are fairly reasonable compared to the rest of the league. If that really is the sticking point you make it out to be (and I tend to believe it is), the AHL will never again be successful in Albany. Nor will the ECHL, for that matter. The local skinflints can enjoy their college hockey and their Rangers games on MSG.

Dude I was sticking up for you fans from Smallbany, I could care less either way to be quite frank. Everyone else is declaring Albany dead. I can see the NHL, AHL and ECHL all within an hour. As someone in the sports entertainment business I can tell you the Firebirds did well many years, not all but 11. In fact Albany did better then most major markets in the AFL. My relatives up that way can take the train from Albany and enjoy the Rangers then take the last train home after the game. They can go to Glens Falls and catch the ECHL, a family of four going to games in Glens Falls for about three quarters of the cost in Albany. Your a local skinflint that will be enjoying nothing lol.

 

[RowdyFan42]

Dude I was sticking up for you fans from Smallbany, I could care less either way to be quite frank. Everyone else is declaring Albany dead. I can see the NHL, AHL and ECHL all within an hour. As someone in the sports entertainment business I can tell you the Firebirds did well many years, not all but 11. In fact Albany did better then most major markets in the AFL. My relatives up that way can take the train from Albany and enjoy the Rangers then take the last train home after the game. They can go to Glens Falls and catch the ECHL, a family of four going to games in Glens Falls for about three quarters of the cost in Albany. Your a local skinflint that will be enjoying nothing lol.

I get what you were going for, and yes, the fans always showed up in droves to see the Firebirds. My point was, in sticking up for the fans, you pointed the finger in the wrong direction. The owner wasn't the bad guy; he tried to keep the team in town, but much like the AHL, the AFL grew out of its smaller markets, and Albany was left behind. The tremendous fan support was not enough to offset the fact that Albany did not have -- and probably still does not have -- a sufficiently sized corporate base from which to draw upon for advertising revenue.

However, all of that is slightly different from the situation today. I specifically mentioned the fact that ticket prices to see the Devils are comparable to most other teams in the AHL, even when you cherry-pick the most expensive seats in the house at walk-up prices, no discounts or promotions, no nothing. As we both know, the locals seem to have a problem with paying those prices. My point is, if that continues, any new team that comes in isn't going to last long.

Now, maybe you're right in that ECHL ticket prices are low enough for the price-conscious Albany consumer even when you take into account the tradeoff in quality of play. Me, I doubt it. Maybe someday we'll get to find out.

 

[Nightsquad]

I get what you were going for, and yes, the fans always showed up in droves to see the Firebirds. My point was, in sticking up for the fans, you pointed the finger in the wrong direction. The owner wasn't the bad guy; he tried to keep the team in town, but much like the AHL, the AFL grew out of its smaller markets, and Albany was left behind. The tremendous fan support was not enough to offset the fact that Albany did not have -- and probably still does not have -- a sufficiently sized corporate base from which to draw upon for advertising revenue.

However, all of that is slightly different from the situation today. I specifically mentioned the fact that ticket prices to see the Devils are comparable to most other teams in the AHL, even when you cherry-pick the most expensive seats in the house at walk-up prices, no discounts or promotions, no nothing. As we both know, the locals seem to have a problem with paying those prices. My point is, if that continues, any new team that comes in isn't going to last long.

Now, maybe you're right in that ECHL ticket prices are low enough for the price-conscious Albany consumer even when you take into account the tradeoff in quality of play. Me, I doubt it. Maybe someday we'll get to find out.

I guess the theory on the AFL is pointless anyway. The league has imploded anyway, the compensation model which they are launching to try and rebuild the league. Gone likely are the days of the Kurt Warner and Eddie "Touchdown" Brown. The newer model will be more like the older AFL2.

As for the drop off from AHL to ECHL in Albany I don't think that will measure success. The fans are looking for a good hockey product and decent prices. Albany consumers know they can attend games at Union or RPI for $12.00 or so. Teams that make the respective playoffs which the Devils often fail to do. The Devils been in Albany going on seven years, made the playoffs twice. The growing success of the Adirondack Thunder is showing signs fans are warming up to the ECHL product, especially with the price adjustments. The Thunder are now locally owned, games start at 7pm, killing it in group sales, and they have a solid broadcaster and radio coverage of all games. They are doing everything the Devils refused to do, and they are the ones still standing. As far as Albany goes there are simply too many other "affordable" sports entertainment options. If Albany can lower their costs to attend, they have more seats to sell, their margins are much different from smaller arenas who dont have that advantage. A group wanted to launch an ECHL franchise in Albany under the River Rats identity, I think it was wrong for the powers that be to write it off suggesting they would rather host arena football or box lacrosse. Both the Rangers and Buffalo want to keep an ECHL club nearby Hartford or Rochester. Albany has options but nobody is capable of doing what is right in that city. The Devils didn't care, they didn't want to put in the effort of growing a Albany franchise, it was all about development only.

 

[ALP21]

I guess the theory on the AFL is pointless anyway. The league has imploded anyway, the compensation model which they are launching to try and rebuild the league. Gone likely are the days of the Kurt Warner and Eddie "Touchdown" Brown. The newer model will be more like the older AFL2.

As for the drop off from AHL to ECHL in Albany I don't think that will measure success. The fans are looking for a good hockey product and decent prices. Albany consumers know they can attend games at Union or RPI for $12.00 or so. Teams that make the respective playoffs which the Devils often fail to do. The Devils been in Albany going on seven years, made the playoffs twice. The growing success of the Adirondack Thunder is showing signs fans are warming up to the ECHL product, especially with the price adjustments. The Thunder are now locally owned, games start at 7pm, killing it in group sales, and they have a solid broadcaster and radio coverage of all games. They are doing everything the Devils refused to do, and they are the ones still standing. As far as Albany goes there are simply too many other "affordable" sports entertainment options. If Albany can lower their costs to attend, they have more seats to sell, their margins are much different from smaller arenas who dont have that advantage. A group wanted to launch an ECHL franchise in Albany under the River Rats identity, I think it was wrong for the powers that be to write it off suggesting they would rather host arena football or box lacrosse. Both the Rangers and Buffalo want to keep an ECHL club nearby Hartford or Rochester. Albany has options but nobody is capable of doing what is right in that city. The Devils didn't care, they didn't want to put in the effort of growing a Albany franchise, it was all about development only.

Speaking from personal experience (as someone who has worked for 2 different teams [both now defunct] in the modern AFL) I can tell you that it is already quite like the old AF2 in terms of compensation structure. The only guys making any real money are getting paid under the table or to "work" for companies owned by the owners of the teams.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

Has interest in lacrosse boomed in Albany since the Attack were there? Attendance was ridiculously low in Albany. They held the smallest Champions Cup Final in NLL history, I believe they had a shade over 3,000 for it. The NLL is also trying to find NHL or NBA ownership for any new expansion teams.

Also, I think the league is looking for lightning in a bottle again. The Edmonton Rush moved to Saskatoon for the 2016 season and it has been a huge success. In Edmonton, the team drew an average of 7,000 per game. In Saskatoon, they are selling out SaskTel Centre with a shade over 15,000. I have been a season ticket holder these last two seasons. Last year, they had maybe 500 season tickets sold and a huge walk up crowd. This year they had to cap season tickets at 9,000 and created a waiting list for them. This is what the NLL is looking for in any new market. I just don't think Albany is suited for the new version NLL.

 

[RowdyFan42]

A group wanted to launch an ECHL franchise in Albany under the River Rats identity, I think it was wrong for the powers that be to write it off suggesting they would rather host arena football or box lacrosse. Both the Rangers and Buffalo want to keep an ECHL club nearby Hartford or Rochester. Albany has options but nobody is capable of doing what is right in that city. The Devils didn't care, they didn't want to put in the effort of growing a Albany franchise, it was all about development only.

Kinda contradicted yourself there, didn't you? Remember, Albany can't bring in an ECHL club this fall, not if they want to stay in the running for the Rangers AHL club next year. If Albany fails to lure the AHL back, they just might respond by pursuing the ECHL after all.

 

[RowdyFan42]

Has interest in lacrosse boomed in Albany since the Attack were there? Attendance was ridiculously low in Albany. They held the smallest Champions Cup Final in NLL history, I believe they had a shade over 3,000 for it. The NLL is also trying to find NHL or NBA ownership for any new expansion teams.

No, that Final had almost 10,000 people in attendance. The season average was only about 3500, though.

I agree, though, that Albany probably isn't a good fit for the NLL. Interest in lacrosse has risen somewhat -- the UAlbany lacrosse team receives a fair amount of media coverage -- but I don't think it's enough to translate into significant support for a professional team.

 

[JungleJON]

Hopefully the ECHL Thunder puts together a good ticket package to try and get the hockey fans in Albany to travel north. Weekend games they could get a local hotel to join in and offer a nights stay plus tickets to the games and a nice dinner for a reasonalbe price.
Wonder if they will aks for the names of the season ticket holders to try and do a mass mailing to them and offer a nice 10 or 20-game package.
There is a lot that they could do, the question is will they.

 

[Nightsquad]

Kinda contradicted yourself there, didn't you? Remember, Albany can't bring in an ECHL club this fall, not if they want to stay in the running for the Rangers AHL club next year. If Albany fails to lure the AHL back, they just might respond by pursuing the ECHL after all.

They are definitely in the "running" to try for the Rangers, whether they are taken seriously will depend on the inept liberal politicians up that way. Smallbany is not known for getting done what needs to be done. KeyBank left Albany to locate their corporate headquarters in Cleveland back in the 1980s because Albany political leaders stalled in upgrading the airport and get space available downtown for a new headquarters. Arena management and politicians who sadly control everything in the city and county don't seem to get the pieces of the puzzle in place. The ECHL could work, an affiliation with Rangers, Bruins, Islanders, or even Buffalo but what will drive success is giving the casual walkups a good time, at affordable prices. Albany is not an ECHL priority. Stabilizing Adirondack, Manchester, getting Worcester off and running and keeping their northeast footprint secure is a priority.

 

[Nightsquad]

Hopefully the ECHL Thunder puts together a good ticket package to try and get the hockey fans in Albany to travel north. Weekend games they could get a local hotel to join in and offer a nights stay plus tickets to the games and a nice dinner for a reasonalbe price.
Wonder if they will aks for the names of the season ticket holders to try and do a mass mailing to them and offer a nice 10 or 20-game package.
There is a lot that they could do, the question is will they.

Actually Albany is just under an hour from the arena up in Glens Falls so not far at all, no need for hotel room unless you have been consuming too much fun stuff lol. In reality years ago a survey was done for Albany's AHL team, what we found out was less then 8% of Albany's AHL fan base actually reside in the city of Albany. Many hail from outlaying areas including many from the northern suburbs of Latham, Clifton Park, Halfmoon, in Saratoga County, and western suburbs of Guilderland, Rotterdam, Niskayuna and other Schenectady county locations. My family lives up in Clifton Park and and Malta areas so they are evenly halfway to either arena.

 

[Nightsquad]

Speaking from personal experience (as someone who has worked for 2 different teams [both now defunct] in the modern AFL) I can tell you that it is already quite like the old AF2 in terms of compensation structure. The only guys making any real money are getting paid under the table or to "work" for companies owned by the owners of the teams.

There is an upstart indoor football team coming to Glens Falls, Rochester, Syracuse, and Burlington VT call the Can-Am Indoor league. Not sure how that may affect any Albany attempts for indoor football. It sounds more of a semi pro indoor league more then anything.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

There is an upstart indoor football team coming to Glens Falls, Rochester, Syracuse, and Burlington VT call the Can-Am Indoor league. Not sure how that may affect any Albany attempts for indoor football. It sounds more of a semi pro indoor league more then anything.

http://canamifl.com/

Interesting

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

They are definitely in the "running" to try for the Rangers, whether they are taken seriously will depend on the inept liberal politicians up that way. Smallbany is not known for getting done what needs to be done. KeyBank left Albany to locate their corporate headquarters in Cleveland back in the 1980s because Albany political leaders stalled in upgrading the airport and get space available downtown for a new headquarters. Arena management and politicians who sadly control everything in the city and county don't seem to get the pieces of the puzzle in place. The ECHL could work, an affiliation with Rangers, Bruins, Islanders, or even Buffalo but what will drive success is giving the casual walkups a good time, at affordable prices. Albany is not an ECHL priority. Stabilizing Adirondack, Manchester, getting Worcester off and running and keeping their northeast footprint secure is a priority.

THEN there's Portland on the horizon, too, NS, IF WHAT'S BEEN REPORTED FOR 2018/19 depending who gets the bid to award that franchise....

Boston isn't leaving Atlanta, at least in the next year +, AND REMEMBER, who owns Hartford now, MSG, not the way it was when Mitchell operated it in Binghamton. Doubtful I see the Rangers move both affiliates without buying Greenville....

 

[Nightsquad]

THEN there's Portland on the horizon, too, NS, IF WHAT'S BEEN REPORTED FOR 2018/19 depending who gets the bid to award that franchise....

Boston isn't leaving Atlanta, at least in the next year +, AND REMEMBER, who owns Hartford now, MSG, not the way it was when Mitchell operated it in Binghamton. Doubtful I see the Rangers move both affiliates without buying Greenville....

Changes for sure....I forgot about Portland, I think once the ECHL establishes that solid New England/Northeast footprint it will be a good the league and former AHL cities fans will warm up.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

There is an upstart indoor football team coming to Glens Falls, Rochester, Syracuse, and Burlington VT call the Can-Am Indoor league. Not sure how that may affect any Albany attempts for indoor football. It sounds more of a semi pro indoor league more then anything.

Sounds interesting. I wish Elmira would get into it now that hockey is gone. Indoor anything is entertaining. Indoor soccer has a good circuit but I'm not sure they have minor leagues, same for lacrosse.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I guess the theory on the AFL is pointless anyway. The league has imploded anyway, the compensation model which they are launching to try and rebuild the league. Gone likely are the days of the Kurt Warner and Eddie "Touchdown" Brown. The newer model will be more like the older AFL2.

As for the drop off from AHL to ECHL in Albany I don't think that will measure success. The fans are looking for a good hockey product and decent prices. Albany consumers know they can attend games at Union or RPI for $12.00 or so. Teams that make the respective playoffs which the Devils often fail to do. The Devils been in Albany going on seven years, made the playoffs twice. The growing success of the Adirondack Thunder is showing signs fans are warming up to the ECHL product, especially with the price adjustments. The Thunder are now locally owned, games start at 7pm, killing it in group sales, and they have a solid broadcaster and radio coverage of all games. They are doing everything the Devils refused to do, and they are the ones still standing. As far as Albany goes there are simply too many other "affordable" sports entertainment options. If Albany can lower their costs to attend, they have more seats to sell, their margins are much different from smaller arenas who dont have that advantage. A group wanted to launch an ECHL franchise in Albany under the River Rats identity, I think it was wrong for the powers that be to write it off suggesting they would rather host arena football or box lacrosse. Both the Rangers and Buffalo want to keep an ECHL club nearby Hartford or Rochester. Albany has options but nobody is capable of doing what is right in that city. The Devils didn't care, they didn't want to put in the effort of growing a Albany franchise, it was all about development only.

Elmira was affiliated with Buffalo/Rochester. They were useless. Hardly involved to any degree. I don't think they ever really wanted an ECHL affiliation. Rumor is Elmira's new arena owner is discussing with the league about a new franchise(part of the deal was he had to secure a new franchise because the idiots that be last year who made the deal for the local government to run the show until they could find a new owner had to make a deal with another agency for some cash and part of the deal was the arena has to have a hockey team in it for the next 10 years) not sure he will get a new franchise or not but it wouldn't be til 18-19 at the earliest at this point I'm sure.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Phase one: Unions ruined hockey!

Phase two: ???

Phase three: Vote Trump!

Unions ruin everything, teachers would be your prime example. Unions benefit the slackers and screw over the ambitious.

He's not perfect but the "professional" politicians are schmucks with donors who have agendas and expect something in return for their money.

As for phase two....like in all sports these days the money, TV broadcast deals and overpopulation ruined it. These sports leagues are so big that there's not enough quality to fill out across the board.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

They are definitely in the "running" to try for the Rangers, whether they are taken seriously will depend on the inept liberal politicians up that way. Smallbany is not known for getting done what needs to be done. KeyBank left Albany to locate their corporate headquarters in Cleveland back in the 1980s because Albany political leaders stalled in upgrading the airport and get space available downtown for a new headquarters. Arena management and politicians who sadly control everything in the city and county don't seem to get the pieces of the puzzle in place. The ECHL could work, an affiliation with Rangers, Bruins, Islanders, or even Buffalo but what will drive success is giving the casual walkups a good time, at affordable prices. Albany is not an ECHL priority. Stabilizing Adirondack, Manchester, getting Worcester off and running and keeping their northeast footprint secure is a priority.

Its not surprising that the gods that be can't run the local city when that's the capitol and the idiots running the state like Comrade Cuomo can't run the big picture.

Cleveland is an odd choice for an operation relocation though. Hasn't been thriving in years. In fact I was watching 30 for 30 on ESPN yesterday and they said it wasn't even thriving in the 80's. They blamed the long crumbling infrastructure on their decades long "curse" lol

 

[210]

Dude I was sticking up for you fans from Smallbany, I could care less either way to be quite frank. Everyone else is declaring Albany dead. I can see the NHL, AHL and ECHL all within an hour. As someone in the sports entertainment business I can tell you the Firebirds did well many years, not all but 11. In fact Albany did better then most major markets in the AFL. My relatives up that way can take the train from Albany and enjoy the Rangers then take the last train home after the game. They can go to Glens Falls and catch the ECHL, a family of four going to games in Glens Falls for about three quarters of the cost in Albany. Your a local skinflint that will be enjoying nothing lol.

How much less could you care?