Prospect Info: Albany Devils and ECHL talk (2014-15 season) - Part IV

Triumph · Jun 30, 2015

brule2000 said:
Burlon's still signed and will get a look at camp. He continues to improve and a new coach might still see enough to give him a shot. There's a tendency to write players off far too soon; a frame of mind that sees players as fated to be what they'll be and that you should be able to identify them at the draft.

In fact players can continue their development into their late twenties and beyond and many of the Devs' recent problems are due to a sub-par developmental system, not simply poor youth identification.

Almost no players who are average or better NHLers spend time in the AHL in their mid 20s (24 or later). You have the occasional Joel Ward, but Brandon Burlon has been in the minor leagues for 4 seasons. He is probably not an NHL player, or if he is, he's a fringe contributor.

The Devils may have poor developmental ability, but I haven't seen anyone come into their system and 'get ruined' - pretty much everyone who has come into their system has lived up to their potential. The trouble is, that potential as suggested by their numbers before coming into the NJ organization wasn't all that good.

Marshal Rochambeau · Jun 30, 2015

Triumph said:
Almost no players who are average or better NHLers spend time in the AHL in their mid 20s (24 or later). You have the occasional Joel Ward, but Brandon Burlon has been in the minor leagues for 4 seasons. He is probably not an NHL player, or if he is, he's a fringe contributor.

The Devils may have poor developmental ability, but I haven't seen anyone come into their system and 'get ruined' - pretty much everyone who has come into their system has lived up to their potential. The trouble is, that potential as suggested by their numbers before coming into the NJ organization wasn't all that good.

I don't see any reason to lose hope completely he's a good skater and has improved every year.

tr83 · Jun 30, 2015

JimEIV said:
Based on what? You can't make a claim like that and not give some sort of example or back it up at all...That AHL system did produce Parise and Henrique. It looks like it developed Matteau based on what we saw at the end of this season.

I think part of the problem is that the A-Devs rosters was neglected for years. Lou seemed to use it more as a way to keep guys from leaving the team by stocking up on players' brother.

Jordan Parise
Mark and Mike Pandolfo
Kelly/Darcy Zajac (Though I think Kelly is a borderline NHLer)
Stephen Gionta

Or a place to bury guys past their prime that were just good people.

Grant Marshall
Cam Janssen
Scott LaChance
Clemmer
Pascal Rheaume

Or just mistakes

Dan McGillis
Mark Fraser x2

It wasn't until the last year or two that Lou decided that he should put a roster together that can instill a winning culture to the future NHL guys

Timmins
Whitney
Thompson

Maybe it was $, but it helps to have guys around for confidence, cuz it sucks to lose all the time

nugg · Jul 1, 2015

Triumph said:
Almost no players who are average or better NHLers spend time in the AHL in their mid 20s (24 or later). You have the occasional Joel Ward, but Brandon Burlon has been in the minor leagues for 4 seasons. He is probably not an NHL player, or if he is, he's a fringe contributor.

The Devils may have poor developmental ability, but I haven't seen anyone come into their system and 'get ruined' - pretty much everyone who has come into their system has lived up to their potential. The trouble is, that potential as suggested by their numbers before coming into the NJ organization wasn't all that good.

Defenseman is a position that takes time. It's becoming cliche' but it's most often the truth.

Bleedred · Jul 1, 2015

Urbom is almost a year younger than Burlon. Talk about a guy we didn't give a chance or fair shake to.

I've really gotta stop with this Urbom obsession. :laugh:

brule2000 · Jul 1, 2015

JimEIV said:
Based on what? You can't make a claim like that and not give some sort of example or back it up at all...That AHL system did produce Parise and Henrique. It looks like it developed Matteau based on what we saw at the end of this season.

Based on the lack of development shown by countless draft picks that have spent time with Lowell and Albany over the last decade plus. Backed up by the continuous and poisonous losing atmosphere that has been present on those teams.

Do you believe that Parise and Henrique were developed by their time in the Devs AHL system, or survived it?

This argument is somewhat circular, and cannot be answered purely by logic, but my contention would be that the Devils drafting hasn't made their AHL team poor but that a poor AHL environment has prevented the optimal development of many draft picks.

The logic was to prepare players to embrace a different system to that used by most NHL franchises but I believe it has stunted the development of many players whose first taste of pro hockey it was (particularly in the decade 2000 to 2010).

I reiterate that most people appear to believe players are what they will be when drafted at 18 and I'm seeking to point out that (following our three month draft frenzy) there is more to getting good NHLers than obtaining fresh bodies.

Feed Me A Stray Cat · Jul 1, 2015

brule2000 said:
Based on the lack of development shown by countless draft picks that have spent time with Lowell and Albany over the last decade plus. Backed up by the continuous and poisonous losing atmosphere that has been present on those teams.

Do you believe that Parise and Henrique were developed by their time in the Devs AHL system, or survived it?

This argument is somewhat circular, and cannot be answered purely by logic, but my contention would be that the Devils drafting hasn't made their AHL team poor but that a poor AHL environment has prevented the optimal development of many draft picks.

The logic was to prepare players to embrace a different system to that used by most NHL franchises but I believe it has stunted the development of many players whose first taste of pro hockey it was (particularly in the decade 2000 to 2010).

I reiterate that most people appear to believe players are what they will be when drafted at 18 and I'm seeking to point out that (following our three month draft frenzy) there is more to getting good NHLers than obtaining fresh bodies.

Guys like Bergfors, Suglobov, Vrana and Zharkov all produced well in the AHL. I have a hard time believing their growth was hurt by their AHL time, especially having seen many of them in person when they were with Albany.

It's more likely we had a bad run of draft picks that just didn't pan out.

Let's not forget that Clarkson and Greene are also came from those mid 2000s AHL teams.

NJDevs26 · Jul 1, 2015

Blake Coleman announced his signing on Twitter...yep no more Twitter ban

brule2000 · Jul 1, 2015

Feed Me A Stray Cat said:
Guys like Bergfors, Suglobov, Vrana and Zharkov all produced well in the AHL. I have a hard time believing their growth was hurt by their AHL time, especially having seen many of them in person when they were with Albany.

It's more likely we had a bad run of draft picks that just didn't pan out.

Let's not forget that Clarkson and Greene are also came from those mid 2000s AHL teams.

It's possible that there's a reason that they all failed to pan out. It's possible that they all developed as well as they would have in any other system. I'm just suggesting it's probable that the reason for their collective failure is likely to include some environmental/developmental factors which were less than perfect on those late River Rat/early Lowell teams.

Of course, it's probably just that Conte sucks. :laugh:

Triumph · Jul 1, 2015

brule2000 said:
It's possible that there's a reason that they all failed to pan out. It's possible that they all developed as well as they would have in any other system. I'm just suggesting it's probable that the reason for their collective failure is likely to include some environmental/developmental factors which were less than perfect on those late River Rat/early Lowell teams.

Of course, it's probably just that Conte sucks.

Niclas Bergfors was an NHL player. I don't know what happened to him, I don't know why Atlanta and Florida both gave up on him and why Nashville quickly did too. He has NHL skills, or had them. There's something more to the story there.

That said, these players did not have phenomenal numbers coming into the AHL either. They did what was expected of them, and for most of them, that was to fail to become NHL players. You're right that you can't prove by logic that the Albany/Lowell teams' mediocrity was the cause of these players' failures, but you're not doing a good job of making that case otherwise, other than just stating it.

nugg · Jul 1, 2015

Triumph said:
Niclas Bergfors was an NHL player. I don't know what happened to him, I don't know why Atlanta and Florida both gave up on him and why Nashville quickly did too. He has NHL skills, or had them. There's something more to the story there.

That said, these players did not have phenomenal numbers coming into the AHL either. They did what was expected of them, and for most of them, that was to fail to become NHL players. You're right that you can't prove by logic that the Albany/Lowell teams' mediocrity was the cause of these players' failures, but you're not doing a good job of making that case otherwise, other than just stating it.

He didn't want to play defense, not a team player, things like that are what I remember reading.

Feed Me A Stray Cat · Jul 1, 2015

nugg said:
He didn't want to play defense, not a team player, things like that are what I remember reading.

It's just odd because plenty of players get that tag and are given multiple opportunities. Bergfors played less than 180 nhl games.

There must have been a severe attitude problem, or he must have wanted to go back to Europe. Seems like he was blacklisted.

It's a shame. I liked watching him play.deceptively strong on the puck and good at cycling.

Classic Devil · Jul 1, 2015

Feed Me A Stray Cat said:
It's just odd because plenty of players get that tag and are given multiple opportunities. Bergfors played less than 180 nhl games.

There must have been a severe attitude problem, or he must have wanted to go back to Europe. Seems like he was blacklisted.

It's a shame. I liked watching him play.deceptively strong on the puck and good at cycling.

The problem was that was all he could do. But I agree, he was excellent on the cycle.

EnglishDevil · Jul 2, 2015

Albany Devils 2015-16 Potential Players

Forwards

Defencemen

Goaltenders

Non-AHL Prospects

Current AHL + Fringe NHL Depth Chart

Goaltenders
Scott Wedgewood
Yann Danis

I was getting tired of having to search for information regarding certain players since it's scattered all over the place, so i compiled this list. It's hard to find information on a few players, if anything is wrong please point it out and i'll fix it.

Emperoreddy · Jul 2, 2015

EnglishDevil said:
Albany Devils 2015-16 Potential Players
Forwards

Name|Age|Position|Shoots|Contract
Jim O'Brien|26|Center|Right|1 Year, Two-way, 575k AAV NHL, Unknown AAV AHL
Graham Black|22|Center|Left|2 Years, Two-way, 650k AAV NHL, 140k AAV AHL
Rod Pelley|30|Center|Left|Presumed AHL Contract, Details Unknown
Kelly Zajac|27| Center| Left| AHL Contract, Presumably NOT Re-signed|
Ryan Kujawinski |20| Center/LW| Left| 3 Years, Two-way, 692.5k AAV NHL, 157.5k AAV AHL
Darcy Zajac |28| Center/RW|Left| UFA, Not Re-signed
Blake Coleman|23| LW/Center|Left|2 Years, Two-way, 680k AAV NHL, 157.5k AAV AHL
Ben Johnson|21| LW/Center|Left| 2 Years, Two-way, 616.6k AAV NHL, 110k AAV AHL
Tim Sestito |30| LW/Center|Left| UFA, NOT Re-signed
Joe Whitney |27| LW | Left |UFA, NOT Re-signed.
Ben Thomson |22| LW |Left |2 Years, Two-way, 626.6k AAV NHL, 120k AAV AHL.
Matt Lorito |24| LW |Left| Presumed ATO/AHL Contract, Details Unknown.
Reid Boucher |21| LW | Left |1 Year, Two-way, 725.8k AAV NHL, 162.5k AAV AHL.
David Wohlberg |24| LW | Left| AHL Contract, Presumably NOT Re-signed.
Chris McKelvie |30| LW | Left| AHL Contract, Presumably NOT Re-signed.
Stefan Matteau |21| LW | Left| RFA, Qualified, WAIVER ELIGIBLE.
Blake Pietila |22| LW | Left| 2 Years, Two-way, 662.5k AAV NHL, 140k AAV AHL.
Paul Thompson |26| RW | Right| 2 Years, Two-way, 575k AAV NHL, 125k AAV AHL.
Cam Janssen |31| RW | Right| UFA, Not Re-signed.
Sergey Kalinin |24| RW | Left| 1 Year, Two-way, 925k AAV NHL, 162.5k AAV AHL.
Mike Sislo |27| RW | Right| 1 Year, Two-way, 562.5k AAV NHL, 125k AAV AHL.

Defencemen

Name|Age|Position|Shoots|Contract
Peter Harrold |32| Defender| Right |UFA, Not Re-signed.
Corbin McPherson |26| Defender | Right| RFA, NOT Qualified.
Joe Faust |23| Defender| Right |Presumed ATO/AHL Contract, Details Unknown.
Vojtech Mozik |22| Defender| Right| 2 Years, Two-way, 680k AAV NHL, 157.5k AAV AHL.
Reece Scarlett |22| Defender| Right| 1 Year, Two-way, 613.3k AAV NHL, 112.5k AAV AHL.
Raman Hrabarenka |22| Defender| Right| 1 Year, Two-way, 692.5k AAV NHL, 162.5k AAV AHL.
Mark Fraser |28| Defender| Left| UFA, Not Re-signed.
Dan Kelly |26| Defender| Left |1 Year, Two-way, 562.5k AAV NHL, 97.5k AAV AHL.
Brandon Burlon |25| Defender| Left| 1 Year, Two-way, 562.5k AAV NHL, 85k AAV AHL.
Seth Helgeson |24| Defender | Left| RFA, Qualified, Presumably Re-signing, Presumably Two-way.

Goaltenders

Name|Age|Position|Contract
Scott Wedgewood |22| Goaltender| 2 Years, Two-way, 587.5k AAV NHL, 80k AAV AHL.
Scott Clemmensen |37| Goaltender| UFA, NOT Re-signed.
Maxime Clermont |23| Goaltender | RFA, NOT Qualified.

Non-AHL Prospects

Name|Age|Position|Shoots|Contract
Pavel Zacha |18| Center| Left| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Either NHL or returning to CHL (Sarnia)
Artur Gavrus |21| Center| Left| AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to KHL (Dinamo Minsk)
Alex Kerfoot |20| Center| Left| AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to NCAA (Harvard)
Joey Dudek |19| Center| Right| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to NCAA (Boston College)
John Quenneville |19| Center| Left| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Brandon)
Brandon Baddock |20| LW| Right| AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Edmonton)
Miles Wood |20| LW| Left |AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to NCAA (Boston College)
Brett Seney |19| LW | Left| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to Hockey East (Merrimack College)
Connor Chatham |19| RW | Right | NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Plymouth)
Blake Speers |18| RW | Right | NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Sault Ste Marie)
Steve Santini |20| Defender| Right | AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to NCAA (Boston College)
Ryan Rehill |19| Defender| Right| AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Kamloops)
Joshua Jacobs |19| Defender| Right| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Sarnia)
Colton White |18| Defender| Left| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Sault Ste Marie)
MacKenzie Blackwood |18| Goaltender | N/A| NOT AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Barrie)
Anthony Brodeur |20| Goaltender| N/A| AHL Eligible 2015-16, Unsigned, Returning to CHL (Drummondville)

I was getting tired of having to search for information regarding certain players since it's scattered all over the place, so i compiled this list. It's hard to find information on a few players, if anything is wrong please point it out and i'll fix it.

Well you can start trimming the list. Clemmer is now a coach with is, and Clermont was allowed to walk.

EnglishDevil · Jul 2, 2015

Emperoreddy said:
Well you can start trimming the list. Clemmer is now a coach with is, and Clermont was allowed to walk.

Oh the purpose of the list is just to keep track of everybody who was in Albany this previous season, the fresh faces incoming and which prospects are eligible/ineligible.

I know people like Clemmensen/Clermont aren't coming back, i just figured i'd include them so people could see who's returning and who isn't.

Right now the tentative lineup is probably something like:

Boucher - Blandisi - Thompson
Lorito - Black - Sislo
Coleman - Kujawinski - Thomson
Pietila - Pelley - D. Zajac?
Johnson

Helgeson - Mozik
Kelly - Hrabarenka
Burlon - Scarlett
Faust

Wedgewood
Random FA Backup

Assuming Matteau is in the NHL due to waiver eligibility and Kalinin and O'Brien both make the big club.

Classic Devil · Jul 2, 2015

I think Gavrus signed in Finland, not the KHL.

NJDevs26 · Jul 2, 2015

EnglishDevil said:
Wedgewood
Random FA Backup

I wonder if they're going to get a backup or a starter for the AHL team...whoever they sign says something about what they think of Wedgewood.

thethinglonger · Jul 2, 2015

Classic Devil said:
I think Gavrus signed in Finland, not the KHL.

Yup, was just about to say this. He's playing for Vaasan Sport of the Finnish Liiga. Not as competitive of a league, but he should get more ice-time as well, I would hope at least. He's gotta go out and earn it.

Awesome job for compiling the list though, EnglishDevil.

Belizarius · Jul 2, 2015

Joe Whitney to NY Islanders.

TheDarkSideOfThePuck · Jul 2, 2015

EnglishDevil said:
Oh the purpose of the list is just to keep track of everybody who was in Albany this previous season, the fresh faces incoming and which prospects are eligible/ineligible.

I know people like Clemmensen/Clermont aren't coming back, i just figured i'd include them so people could see who's returning and who isn't.

Right now the tentative lineup is probably something like:

Boucher - Blandisi - Thompson
Lorito - Black - Sislo
Coleman - Kujawinski - Thomson
Pietila - Pelley - D. Zajac?
Johnson

Helgeson - Mozik
Kelly - Hrabarenka
Burlon - Scarlett
Faust

Wedgewood
Random FA Backup

Assuming Matteau is in the NHL due to waiver eligibility and Kalinin and O'Brien both make the big club.

I'd switch Boucher for O'Brien. It seems like Shero wants to give a shot to Boucher and have O'Brien as insurance in the AHL when someone gets injured

OmNomNom · Jul 2, 2015

nice list btw english, good work!

Emperoreddy · Jul 2, 2015

Will be tough to make line ups because the big club is definitely pilfering the team this year.

brule2000 · Jul 2, 2015

Triumph said:
Niclas Bergfors was an NHL player. I don't know what happened to him, I don't know why Atlanta and Florida both gave up on him and why Nashville quickly did too. He has NHL skills, or had them. There's something more to the story there.

That said, these players did not have phenomenal numbers coming into the AHL either. They did what was expected of them, and for most of them, that was to fail to become NHL players. You're right that you can't prove by logic that the Albany/Lowell teams' mediocrity was the cause of these players' failures, but you're not doing a good job of making that case otherwise, other than just stating it.

Just getting a few people to consider it would mark a change in most posters' thinking regarding player acquisition.

Most NHL teams now have directors of player development. Presumably some do better jobs than others but it's still always seen as the scouts' lookout as to whether players make it in the league and to what extent.

EnglishDevil · Jul 2, 2015

Classic Devil said:
I think Gavrus signed in Finland, not the KHL.

thethinglonger said:
Yup, was just about to say this. He's playing for Vaasan Sport of the Finnish Liiga. Not as competitive of a league, but he should get more ice-time as well, I would hope at least. He's gotta go out and earn it.

Awesome job for compiling the list though, EnglishDevil.

Thanks for the information, have updated Gavrus on the list!

NJDevs26 said:
I wonder if they're going to get a backup or a starter for the AHL team...whoever they sign says something about what they think of Wedgewood.

Will be interesting to see who they go with as the second goaltender, personally i'm expecting Wedgewood to get a chance as the starter given that they signed him to a two year deal.

Belizarius said:
Joe Whitney to NY Islanders.

Updated the list, appreciate the information!

TheDarkSideOfThePuck said:
I'd switch Boucher for O'Brien. It seems like Shero wants to give a shot to Boucher and have O'Brien as insurance in the AHL when someone gets injured

Yeah it's a little hard to call some of the guys that'll probably get a shot in the NHL, i anticipate that we'll see a fair few guys bouncing back and forth between NJ and Albany.

OmNomNom said:
nice list btw english, good work!

Appreciate it thanks!

Emperoreddy said:
Will be tough to make line ups because the big club is definitely pilfering the team this year.

Yeah, definitely expect that O'Brien, Boucher, Thompson, Hrabarenka and Helgeson will see time in both the AHL and NHL.

On the bright side i'm happy to see us phasing out some of the older career AHLers. It's the first time in a while we've had an exciting crop of youngsters down in the AHL, particularly at the forward positions; many of whom may eventually have an impact in the NHL. It'll be interesting to see what Blandisi, Black, Coleman, Kujawinski, Pietila, Lorito, Boucher etc can do this year.

Prospect Info: Albany Devils and ECHL talk (2014-15 season) - Part IV

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