Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[silverfish]

If the rumors are true about AV being on his last leg against LVGK (which I find hard to believe because if your GM is really one game away from firing you, then you should just be fired, but what the hell do I know, I'm not a GM), then there is some deliciously awful irony about Buchnevich & Hank saving AV's job.

 

[haveandare]

May be so, but the ideal time for him to go would've been BEFORE extending him. Seems the players weren't "all aboard" with him getting that extension. Something like.....we have him for another 2 years? Or, "I don't mind, he's kind of easy on us".
That's unacceptable from a players standpoint. Seems there is not enough accountability for some players and too much for some others. What I think is .....Veterans get passes, rookies and the likes get destroyed. Needs to be more middle ground, but what do I know?

What’s the difference really? Coaches get fired in contract all the time

 

[Ola]

Obviously there is a real hierarchy of coaches from good to bad, but in all my years reading this site I do find it rather alarming how many overlap complications bad/once liked coaches have with each other.

-No ability to adjust to in game changes/square peg-round hole method
-Bias against rookies and young players over vets.
-A fascination with one particular player who probably shouldn't even be in the league etc.

Then again, I suppose there is only a finite amount of ways a coach/player can be flawed, though I got my eye on Zac Rinaldo at all times. You never know.

Isn’t it a natural law that all fans will feel this about all coaches?

Between NYR and the teams I follow in Sweden, and national teams, I do think this is the case with all coaches I’ve ever come across. And I can swear to you that had hfboards been around in 94’ the board would at least be 50/50 on Keenan.

 

[TheTakedown]

Who would you guys have exposed in favor of protecting Lindberg, though?

Here was our list:

View attachment 81873
All of those forwards are either too talented or too valuable (in terms of what they'd return in a trade) to not protect. It sucks losing Lindberg, and I do miss him...but we made the most pragmatic decision.

Would have made Nash waive his NTC

 

[Ori]

I believe we will have a public meeting to address things maybe some slight alteration in plans, and it might include Gorton or Glen Sather talking with the media, but not sure if it involve AV. And AV have some experience when a team struggle. Maybe the Franchise will talk about future and topics like that - they thought Chytil was ready for instant, but he obviously needed more time to develop his talent and skills.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Who would you guys have exposed in favor of protecting Lindberg, though?

Here was our list:

View attachment 81873
All of those forwards are either too talented or too valuable (in terms of what they'd return in a trade) to not protect. It sucks losing Lindberg, and I do miss him...but we made the most pragmatic decision.

None of those forwards are worse than Lindberg. You could make a case for Fast, but it's close.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Can I please hope for a sack if the team gets completely humiliated tonight against Tampa? If Kucherov has like 5 quality scoring chances with no one close to him, Stamkos is left alone in the slot three times and their other lines have an ordinary field day against us?

Can some overpaid idiot in the field office finally realize and voice that the biggest problem is strategical?

 

[Tawnos]

Isn’t it a natural law that all fans will feel this about all coaches?

Between NYR and the teams I follow in Sweden, and national teams, I do think this is the case with all coaches I’ve ever come across. And I can swear to you that had hfboards been around in 94’ the board would at least be 50/50 on Keenan.

I think that’s because most fans don’t have any handle on what a coach does. I’m not saying I do either. But it’s not our fault. 80-90% of a coach’s job happens where fans will never see. It’s nearly impossible to know how good a coach is, even during games.

Which is why the only thing I judge coaches on is W/L record and where it stands vs how much talent I think the team has. If he’s taking care of the other things, the wins should be consummate with the talent. Or better.

 

[Leetch Fan]

He pissed me off a little bit with his comment about Kampfer after the Tampa game. He gave him off from practice the next day because he " gooned " it up in that game. I'm no longer a fan of fighting but the guy went out and dropped them twice in what was a contentious and really important win. Seemed dismissive.

 

[Irishguy42]

He pissed me off a little bit with his comment about Kampfer after the Tampa game. He gave him off from practice the next day because he " gooned " it up in that game. I'm no longer a fan of fighting but the guy went out and dropped them twice in what was a contentious and really important win. Seemed dismissive.

AV isn't a huge fan of fighting

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

What’s the difference really? Coaches get fired in contract all the time

He will still be paid. He will still be under contract.

 

[Ori]

And if AV sign another contract with a different NHL club - he will get paid a lot more. So if AV thinks econonic - is`t better for him to find a new job?
Gorton took away his #1 center earlier this summer in hope that one of the #1 st picks were NHL ready.

 

[McRanger]

He will still be paid. He will still be under contract.

Unless he takes another job. Which he will.

 

[Mikos87]

He'll land on his feet right away. I wouldn't worry about job prospects if I were Alain. The guy's got a proven track record, and he's more than qualified.

Sometimes you need a change in culture. A new voice, new leadership. I think that's where they are at, the team had a easier path in the playoffs, and guys weren't motivated, and there were some impulse choices made, a lack of adaptability and accountability.

 

[NickyFotiu]

He pissed me off a little bit with his comment about Kampfer after the Tampa game. He gave him off from practice the next day because he " gooned " it up in that game. I'm no longer a fan of fighting but the guy went out and dropped them twice in what was a contentious and really important win. Seemed dismissive.

I actually think AV was happy to see the team showing that kind of fight. The biggest problem this season has been a lack of fire. Anyway here is the full quote as to why Kamp wasn't practicing.

“Gooned it up the other day, so [he] deserved the day off,” Vigneault said.

 

[Mikos87]

I didn't have a problem with the comment, Kampfer laid it all out there and set the tone.

Deserved a break for it.

 

[Ori]

I actually think AV was happy to see the team showing that kind of fight. The biggest problem this season has been a lack of fire. Anyway here is the full quote as to why Kamp wasn't practicing.

I think Zucc should rest a game too - he was a goon against Hedman even though we scored 4 v 4 on it - and it`s not an advantage for us playing 4 v 4 with one of our most skilled players in the box. And I think the coaching staff should talk to Zucc to be less of a goon as well.
He shows spirit, but he need to show it with creative passes and contribute in pts. and focus on his strength, and sometimes I wish Gorton added to depth so it was possible to rest players when they need to improve their game.

Vesey another player in his 5 first games of the season - if we had depth he should rest earlier, but he started to produce in some games after that so all good at the moment, but depth dont hurt this team.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think Zucc should rest a game too - he was a goon against Hedman even though we scored 4 v 4 on it - and it`s not an advantage for us playing 4 v 4 with one of our most skilled players in the box. And I think the coaching staff should talk to Zucc to be less of a goon as well.
He shows spirit, but he need to show it with creative passes and contribute in pts. and focus on his strength, and sometimes I wish Gorton added to depth so it was possible to rest players when they need to improve their game.

Vesey another player in his 5 first games of the season - if we had depth he should rest earlier, but he started to produce in some games after that so all good at the moment, but depth dont hurt this team.

I can not tell if you are kidding or serious. Kamp is not sitting out a game. He was given a maintenance day to miss practice. He may have hurt himself. Zook going with Hedman didn't hurt our team in that game. We scored soon afterwards Zooks and Hedmen went to the box. I doubt TB wants Hedman off the ice. I want all our players to show that kind of fire since it has been lacking in our first 13 games.

 

[Ori]

I`m not kidding @NickyFotiu - Tampa is as skilled as us 4 v 4 - it was coincident than anything else. AV always play Zucc 3 v 3 or 4 v 4 - it`s not advantage for us
to have Zucc in the box for fighting and I`ve notice he do it when he is kind of frustrated of his own game or line. It`s good to show fire I agree with that, but they should show their skills and help their team to produce and win games.

 

[Raspewtin]

AV isn't a huge fan of fighting

And Kampfer sucks at hockey.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I`m not kidding @NickyFotiu - Tampa is as skilled as us 4 v 4 - it was coincident than anything else. AV always play Zucc 3 v 3 or 4 v 4 - it`s not advantage for us
to have Zucc in the box for fighting and I`ve notice he do it when he is kind of frustrated of his own game or line. It`s good to show fire I agree with that, but they should show their skills and help their team to produce and win games.

I think you are a good poster but you may read way too much in to some of these situations. Most hockey players with heart would respond the same exact way to getting jabbed in the face/head repeatedly behind the goal. AV doesn't need to sit Zooks because he stood up for himself in that situation anymore than Tampa would have to bench Hedman for standing firm in that same situation. If a coach benched Zooks (or Hedman) for standing up for himself he might lose a lot of the players and fans support in my opinion.

 

[Ori]

I don`t disagree, so it`s all fine, @NickyFotiu
I just wished that AV used Nash on 3rd line one game - Miller deserve a top 6 role in my opinion, or use Zucc on the 3rd line against Florida or next game vs CBJ - and he get fired up to hopefully improve his overall game performance.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don`t disagree, so it`s all fine, @NickyFotiu
I just wished that AV used Nash on 3rd line one game - Miller deserve a top 6 role in my opinion, or use Zucc on the 3rd line against Florida or next game vs CBJ - and he get fired up to hopefully improve his overall game performance.

Our lines have been so jumbled up this season that I think most our forwards have spent some time on the 3rd line including Nash and Zooks. Some games Hayes is first line. Others he is second or third. JT has moved around as well. I dont have any problem with that. We are often playing 3 lines equally with most minute differentials coming via the PP and PK.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

AV had a Kampfer-type career. He respects that kind of player. I don't think that's a bad thing

 

[Ori]

Yeah true Miller & Zucc usually find each other though. And if Lias & Zucc is here next year - I would love to see Miller - Lias - Zucc line.

Have a good weekend and day @NickyFotiu - I`ll be off for some hours and some errands here, but I`ll be back to puck drop later this evening!