So much for the belief that expanding the player pool with CHL players would keep the small schools in the game.
Costs are exploding and many schools are under serious financial strain.
Aic Dropping Down to D 2
- Thread starter Corso
- Start date
So much for the belief that expanding the player pool with CHL players would keep the small schools in the game.
Costs are exploding and many schools are under serious financial strain.
MiamiHockeyII
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2022
- 177
- 395
Jeff Marek stated this week his belief that NCAA Div I will expand and become the main development path to the NHL. I believe that opinion is asinine, and that contraction will occur before expansion. Here's why:
1) Costs.
a) Tuition, Room and Board at AIC is ~ $60k USD. A hockey roster of 25 brings the academic costs alone to $1.5M. A public university (e.g., Michigan Tech) may be moderately lower for in-State athletes, and a private university (e.g., Clarkson) moderately higher. Unless you have an established endowment to cover those costs, like Michigan, that's prohibitive. $1.5M annually requires an endowment gift of ~$40M
b) Arena. Conservatively, it's $100M to build a new one. Mullet (ASU) cost $134M, the new OHL arena in Brantford is $140M.
c) Coaching / Travel. Easily $1M unless you can bus everywhere. Endowment of ~$25M
To fund a new program, from scratch, you're looking at an up front cost of nearly $200M, with ZERO chance of profit to the individual donors. It's entirely an ego project.
2) NHL Draft.
With the CHL Eligibility rules, every top NA prospect is going to the CHL, and zero top Draft Picks will come from the NCAA. All the top players will miss the NCAA entirely, and it will become a slow-burn development league with an education upside. The cachet of watching Eichel and Celebrini will be gone.
Moreover, NHL teams will avoid drafting players they think are going to the NCAA because they will no longer have those players' rights for 4 years.
3) Revenues.
NCAA teams have a capped game schedule. Their revenues are restricted as a result. Entrepreneurs who want to invest in hockey will start a CHL franchise with 70+ games, bigger crowds, and no tuition overhead.
4) Title IX. Per-player, ice hockey is more expensive than any sport other than Football. Universities that want to cut will eliminate DI hockey and fund female sports instead to meet their Title IX requirements.
1) Costs.
a) Tuition, Room and Board at AIC is ~ $60k USD. A hockey roster of 25 brings the academic costs alone to $1.5M. A public university (e.g., Michigan Tech) may be moderately lower for in-State athletes, and a private university (e.g., Clarkson) moderately higher. Unless you have an established endowment to cover those costs, like Michigan, that's prohibitive. $1.5M annually requires an endowment gift of ~$40M
b) Arena. Conservatively, it's $100M to build a new one. Mullet (ASU) cost $134M, the new OHL arena in Brantford is $140M.
c) Coaching / Travel. Easily $1M unless you can bus everywhere. Endowment of ~$25M
To fund a new program, from scratch, you're looking at an up front cost of nearly $200M, with ZERO chance of profit to the individual donors. It's entirely an ego project.
2) NHL Draft.
With the CHL Eligibility rules, every top NA prospect is going to the CHL, and zero top Draft Picks will come from the NCAA. All the top players will miss the NCAA entirely, and it will become a slow-burn development league with an education upside. The cachet of watching Eichel and Celebrini will be gone.
Moreover, NHL teams will avoid drafting players they think are going to the NCAA because they will no longer have those players' rights for 4 years.
3) Revenues.
NCAA teams have a capped game schedule. Their revenues are restricted as a result. Entrepreneurs who want to invest in hockey will start a CHL franchise with 70+ games, bigger crowds, and no tuition overhead.
4) Title IX. Per-player, ice hockey is more expensive than any sport other than Football. Universities that want to cut will eliminate DI hockey and fund female sports instead to meet their Title IX requirements.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Not a shocker. I am about 20 minutes from AIC and can say this: the school itself is on life support, employees are jumping ship, and everyone seems to think it has two years left before the ship sinks.
They already have lost a number of coaches, including the head coach of their moderately successful football program. If things were really okay, you wouldn't have a mass exodus.
The hockey program was obviously their largest non-football expenditure, with a budget apparently set for $1.7M.
With the school churning through ADs and interim presidents at the rate of one per year, they're not going to have a school much longer. They are a five minute drive from two other small private schools which are struggling in Springfield College and Western New England.
Almost In College costs north of $50k per year. Academics are below average. Campus is in the middle of an area which makes Baghdad look nice. I'm surprised the school has lasted as long as it has, let alone the men's program.
They already have lost a number of coaches, including the head coach of their moderately successful football program. If things were really okay, you wouldn't have a mass exodus.
The hockey program was obviously their largest non-football expenditure, with a budget apparently set for $1.7M.
With the school churning through ADs and interim presidents at the rate of one per year, they're not going to have a school much longer. They are a five minute drive from two other small private schools which are struggling in Springfield College and Western New England.
Almost In College costs north of $50k per year. Academics are below average. Campus is in the middle of an area which makes Baghdad look nice. I'm surprised the school has lasted as long as it has, let alone the men's program.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Moving the hockey team down from NCAA DI to fit the rest of the athletic department's DII membership in the NE-10 was part of a wide range of cuts attempting to stabilize the university's finances
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
FAR more important than a small college's sports programs stability or the institution's future solvency ... Does this hockey team demotion make my collection of AIC hockey merch more or less valuable? 
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
FAR more important than a small college's sports programs stability or the institution's future solvency ... Does this hockey team demotion make my collection of AIC hockey merch more or less valuable?
School merchandise has been used as an environmentally friendly alternative to bibs, bathmats, and koozies since about 1890
CHL-introduction will most definitely help these lower-tier schools, but it will take time.
Seems that it was not the hockey team's fault, but great mismanagement of people at the top in the suits.
MiamiHockeyII
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2022
- 177
- 395
I don't think anyone remotely suspected the hockey team did anything to get moved from DI.
But, if anyone thinks that AIC is alone, think again. University enrolment is down, and this is hurting the smaller, lower-ranked private colleges. Many have closed or been absorbed, and this trend will continue. Some have massive endowments and loyal alumni that will spare them (e.g., Middlebury College), but small private universities with small endowments are getting crushed and the first thing to go will be athletic scholarships.
AIC has an endowment of ~$30Million, which sounds like a lot until you compare to Middlebury's $1.5Billion endowment. A small university like AIC is a money-losing proposition.
I expect Lindenwood will reconsider its DI hockey program shortly.
Bummer. From an on-ice standpoint, 3 NCAA tourney appearances in the last 5 years or so is a pretty darn good return and they’ve had, living up to their name, some pretty interesting international players come through their doors.
Obviously this isn’t about wins and losses - staying competitive at the highest level as a tiny and not exactly richly endowed private school can’t be cheap - but they seemed a solid program in recent times.
Obviously this isn’t about wins and losses - staying competitive at the highest level as a tiny and not exactly richly endowed private school can’t be cheap - but they seemed a solid program in recent times.
This is giving off the same vibe as UHartford announcing they were going from D1 to D3 right in the wake of when they finally made March Madness for the only time.
Do you know if the CHL scholarship packages can be applied to US universities? That could potentially help lower budget schools.
MiamiHockeyII
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2022
- 177
- 395
Yes, they can be used for any post-secondary education, including trades training.
The amounts set aside by the CHL scholarship program are based on Canadian University Tuition, which is not in the same vicinity price-wise as US Tuition, especially with the exchange rate at 40%.
Disregarding the major deficit issues that SFU is currently working through, that would give them (SFU) a competitive advantage and make a legit program there more feasible, no? If they were to focus on locking down regional talent from the WHL, that would potentially give them a unique ability to recruit a competitive roster at a low cost, relative to other D1 hockey programs, no? Scholarship athletes would then also be cheaper for hockey than other sports within their own athletic department which wouldn't be able to take advantage of the CHL scholarship funding program. If SFU chooses to remain in the NCAA, I think this makes the argument to add hockey there pretty compelling, especially given the fact that they just dropped football and a bunch of men's scholarship opportunities.
MiamiHockeyII
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2022
- 177
- 395
1) Running an NCAA team out of SFU would cost a fortune. They are on a geographic island without an NCAA program within 2500km (1500 miles), so they would have to fly everywhere. They have no arena, and thus no revenue sources, and you can rest assured that SFU is not looking to allocate $2M to fund a varsity hockey program. It's the pipe dream of all pipe dreams.
2) SFU does not offer full scholarships in other sports, so that's a moot point.
3) They are not in the NCAA. They have a club team that plays exhibition games against NCAA competition. That's not the same thing.
Their entire athletic department is already NCAA D2, and I'm aware they have a club program that is already traveling to NCAA programs for exhibition games, and I'm aware they are able to do what they are without funding from the university to pay for it. If they would have the potential to recruit a legitimate roster at a relatively low cost, and if the current operations of the club program are already self-funded (they are), then the incremental cost of elevating the program would be significantly less than 2 million. As a D1 program, they would also get paid more than they currently do for non conference away pay games, and they would have the ability to create a decent home schedule because other programs will want to play there for recruiting purposes. Home games vs legitimate programs, games with rosters consisting of legitimate NHL talent and known names from the WHL, along with a high quality of play would help to drive interest/attendance, and revenue to offset increased costs.
The value that the university would get for any incremental dollar that they spend on a legit D1 hockey program would dwarf that of that of the millions they are currently flushing down the drain for every single one of their existing programs. The exception with hockey is that it would actually be a program capable of generating fan support and some amount of revenue to offset costs, and it would also be the only program capable of generating an ROI in the form of marketing for the university - it's the only program capable of attracting significant attention and awareness for the university. Hockey would have a payoff in that it could actually serve as the "front porch" of the university, whereas all of their other NCAA programs are essentially invisible.
MiamiHockeyII
Registered User
- Mar 24, 2022
- 177
- 395
OK - but there is no DII in NCAA Hockey, and the nearest DIII league (Minnesota) is as far as the nearest DI league (UND).
There's no question they would attract a strong roster, as would any Canadian university who sought an NCAA DI program. Roster strength is not the issue. Money is.
The only possible way it would work is with a massive investment from a private donor. You still don't have a good home arena, any training facilities, etc.
Canadians don't care about college sports, so your set of assumptions about the incremental value of a DI program are not supported by any evidence. In matters in the US, but not in Canada.
Just to clarify, based on your comment I wasn't sure whether you knew their other sports were in the NCAA which is partially why I mentioned it. They are likely in the process of restructuring their athletic department, so the other part of why I mentioned that was because they could conceivably decide to leave the NCAA. That's why I said something about if they choose to remain in the NCAA, in my first post.
Canadians don't care about college sports and I acknowledge that, but my point was that if they decide to remain in the NCAA continue to spend money traveling to places like Anchorage and Fairbanks in sports that nobody cares about, at all, they may as well do it for hockey too because relative to the cost and roi to do that in other sports, hockey looks pretty good. You can say my assumption lacks evidence if you want but it's simple logic. Canadians do care about hockey, the NHL, and prospects, and unlike their other sports, hockey would be able to compete at the D1 level which is a great hockey product, whether or not it's related to a university. How much evidence is really needed to understand that there would be a ton of local interest if a guy like Tom Willander, a Vancouver 1st round pick, was in town for a game? How much interest would it generate if SFU had a Vacouver draft pick or two on their roster, or if there were other notable prospects in town for a game? Vancouver has 10 NCAA guys on their roster, 3 of which were 1st round picks. If you look at it from a marketing perspective alone, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize SFU would see more publicity from some big time games than they do from the millions they spend on all of their other sports, combined.
Their arena situation isn't great but it seats 2k which is enough to generate a few hundred K and it's nice enough to start...
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Rumor? ... Lindenwood University will take AIC's place in the AHA for 2025-26 ... 
Mr Nogatco
Arnold, Lee, Quisling, Gretzky
- Apr 3, 2021
- 1,083
- 9,591
VaCaps Fan
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2018
- 3,617
- 7,098
They got good deals on season tickets?Rumor? ... Lindenwood University will take AIC's place in the AHA for 2025-26 ...
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Given your location, I assume you have a source connected to the school in some way?Rumor? ... Lindenwood University will take AIC's place in the AHA for 2025-26 ...
I'm happy for Lindenwood, but that's kind of a bummer if true... was really hoping we would see a new conference form.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
VaCaps Fan
Registered User
- Feb 18, 2018
- 3,617
- 7,098
Latest posts
-
-
GDT: [Game #75] Dallas Stars vs. Nashville Predators – 7:00 PM CT (Victory+)- Latest: account deactivated
-
-
GDT: Perds vs Stars - This Should Be Fun Edition - 4/3/25 - 7PM- Latest: Kat Predator
