Agree or Disagree: Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Draisaitl, and Matthews are the 5 best goal scorers of the 21st century

[rockymtnoyster]

You are being disingenuous here imo. AM is a better player than Kovy and I loved me some Kovy (I’m an early 90s boy). Kovy was a monster no doubt, but my eyes say AM is clearly better.

I agree AM is a better goal scorer, he was just also set up more comfortably, if Kovalchuk had a more prime playmaker for a longer period of time I think this discussion would be closer, imagine Kovalchuk had jumbo joe or someone like Getzlaf .

 

[daver]

Crosby and McDavid deserve special recognition for leading the league in assists and leading the league in goals. It is almost an insult to reduce them to "goalscorers" for the purposes of the OP.

Hard to imagine that they both would not have significant more goals if they weren't relied on so heavily for their playmaking.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby and McDavid deserve special recognition for leading the league in assists and leading the league in goals. It is almost an insult to reduce them to "goalscorers" for the purposes of the OP.

Crosby led the NHL in assists all of one time. McDavid has done it 4 times already. They’re not in the same class here.

Hard to imagine that they both would not have significant more goals if they weren't relied on so heavily for their playmaking.

…in which case their point totals would go down significantly.

 

[Toby91ca]

…in which case their point totals would go down significantly.

That's a theory, it's logical to assume someone trying to score more might sacrifice assists, but not sure how much total offense would be sacrificed, doesn't seem to be a lot of actual evidence to suggest that.

 

[Regal]

That's a theory, it's logical to assume someone trying to score more might sacrifice assists, but not sure how much total offense would be sacrificed, doesn't seem to be a lot of actual evidence to suggest that.

Probably depends a bit on how hard they try. Focusing too much on goals might be an overall detriment if you’re forcing things, but making more subtle changes to shoot more and defer less when both are options probably ends up with similar totals. We saw that a bit with Crosby’s Richards.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Edit : Here below is the list of players who have the best goal rates in the 21st century since the question of this poll is to determine who are the "best goal scorers of the 21st century". I am laying out this factual information so people can consult it to form their own opinions. I like to provide facts for context. I hope the context for my post is explained well enough, please don't hesitate to ask any questions


Goals Per Game since January 1st 2000 (minimum 300 GP)

1- Auston Matthews 596 GP x 0.65 GPG
2- Alex Ovechkin 1 458 GP x 0.60 GPG
3- Kirill Kaprizov 313 GP x 0.58 GPG
4- Connor McDavid 688 GP x 0.52 GPG
5- David Pastrnak 725 GP x 0.51 GPG
6- Steven Stamkos 1 129 GP x 0.51 GPG
7- Leon Draisaitl 768 GP x 0.50 GPG
8- Ilya Kovalchuk 926 GP x 0.48 GPG
9- Brayden Point 622 GP x 0.47 GPG
10- Mikko Rantanen 619 GP x 0.46 GPG
11- Kyle Connor 581 GP x 0.46 GPG
12- Ziggy Palffy 320 GP x 0.46 GPG
13- Sidney Crosby 1 323 GP x 0.46 GPG
14- Nikita Kucherov 770 GP x 0.45 GPG
15- Jake Guentzel 566 GP x 0.45 GPG


There's a few years of DPE since 2000 but it's not as drastic as comparing with the 80's

maybe this has been addressed but I’d be interested to see what the era adjusted numbers look like. Scoring really took off starting in 2018 iirc which lends a bit more weight to some of the older guys on the list

 

[Felidae]

My list of tiers based off of top-10 goal finishes.

Don't like using goal/gp because:
a) It props up guys who are young (and haven't had the age curve that lowers career g/gp)
b) Does not consider the differences in scoring environment (can be up to 10-15% difference from the last 8 or so years)

Don't like career goals because:
a) Props up career compilers (Marleau)

My cutoff was FOUR top-10 finishes minimum. If you haven't been able to finish top-10 in goals more than 3 times, you do not belong in a top goal scorers list that covers 25 years.

Some guys that I omitted that I saw listed here include: Kaprizov (5/8/8), Malkin (2/4/4), and Marleau (4/6).

1a	Ovechkin	1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/3/3/4/4/5/9
2a	Stamkos	1/1/2/2/2/4/7/9
2b	Matthews	1/1/1/2/3
2c	Kovalchuk	1/2/3/4/6/6/7/8
3a	Iginla	1/1/3/3
3b	Draisaitl	2/2/4/4/4 (+ currently 1st this season)
3b	McDavid	1/2/6/6/7/10
3c	Heatley	2/5/6/8/8/9
3c	Crosby	1/1/7/7
3d	Pastrnak	1/2/7/10 (+ currently 10th this season)
3d	Perry	1/2/6/9/10
3d	Nash	1/3/5/10
4a	Kane	2/5/5/10
4a	Tavares	3/3/4/10
4a	Kucherov	2/6/9/10
4b	Hossa	4/5/5/6
4b	Mackinnon	4/6/9/9/9
4b	Seguin	5/5/7/10

For someone with 2 rocket richard trophies, Iginla's goalscoring prime is surprisingly short (only 4 seasons top 10 in goals). Granted, the other 2 goalscoring finishes were 3rd place, but still..

It makes me hard to put him over someone like Kovalchuk, who despite not having peaked as high, has twice as many top 10 goalscoring finishes. I see no issue taking Iginla ahead of Kovalchuk, but I just generally prefer prime>peak

I think Ovechkin, Stamkos, Matthews are inarguable. Probably Draisatl too. Kovalchuk would round out my top 5, but that's the real debatable spot

 

[Devilmademedoit]

Top Goal scorers since 2000

Alex Ovechkin 875
Sidney Crosby 607
Steven Stamkos 572
Jarome Iginla 534
Patrick Marleau 515
Evgeni Malkin 507
Patrick Kane 482
Marian Hossa 481
Joe Pavelski 476
John Tavares 476

 

[daver]

I think Ovechkin, Stamkos, Matthews are inarguable. Probably Draisatl too. Kovalchuk would round out my top 5, but that's the real debatable spot

Helps to have a GOAT talent feeding you the puck while Crosby was creating goals mainly with rookies and 3rd line talent on his wings.

McDavid has assisted on 52% of Draisaitl's goals including 63% this year and 63% of his playoff goals in the last four playoffs.

Crosby put up 15 goals (2nd best of the era) in the 2009 playoffs with a 38 year Bill Guerin assisting on 40%. Malkin assisted on 33% and Chris Kunitz on 26%.

During his peak goalscoring from '09/10 to 10/11, Malkin was in on 30% of his goals.

In his 2nd Rocket, Conor Sheary had the most assists at 27% followed by a rookie Jake Guentzel.

 

[filinski77]

For someone with 2 rocket richard trophies, Iginla's goalscoring prime is surprisingly short (only 4 seasons top 10 in goals). Granted, the other 2 goalscoring finishes were 3rd place, but still..

It makes me hard to put him over someone like Kovalchuk, who despite not having peaked as high, has twice as many top 10 goalscoring finishes. I see no issue taking Iginla ahead of Kovalchuk, but I just generally prefer prime>peak

I think Ovechkin, Stamkos, Matthews are inarguable. Probably Draisatl too. Kovalchuk would round out my top 5, but that's the real debatable spot

I completely agree with you... which is why I also have Kovalchuk (tier 2) over Iginla (tier 3) in my list...

 

[Regal]

Helps to have a GOAT talent feeding you the puck while Crosby was creating goals mainly with rookies and 3rd line talent on his wings.

McDavid has assisted on 52% of Draisaitl's goals including 63% this year and 63% of his playoff goals in the last four playoffs.

Crosby put up 15 goals (2nd best of the era) in the 2009 playoffs with a 38 year Bill Guerin assisting on 40%. Malkin assisted on 33% and Chris Kunitz on 26%.

During his peak goalscoring from '09/10 to 10/11, Malkin was in on 30% of his goals.

In his 2nd Rocket, Conor Sheary had the most assists at 27% followed by a rookie Jake Guentzel.

This applies to Crosby’s peak seasons, but Draisaitl has better finishes outside of those where teammates aren’t really enough to account for the difference imo. He’ll almost certainly have 6 top-5 seasons by the end of this year, including likely 3 top-2s.

 

[Duke74]

Helps to have a GOAT talent feeding you the puck while Crosby was creating goals mainly with rookies and 3rd line talent on his wings.

McDavid has assisted on 52% of Draisaitl's goals including 63% this year and 63% of his playoff goals in the last four playoffs.

Crosby put up 15 goals (2nd best of the era) in the 2009 playoffs with a 38 year Bill Guerin assisting on 40%. Malkin assisted on 33% and Chris Kunitz on 26%.

During his peak goalscoring from '09/10 to 10/11, Malkin was in on 30% of his goals.

In his 2nd Rocket, Conor Sheary had the most assists at 27% followed by a rookie Jake Guentzel.

News flash: Good players play better with other good players than they do with bad players.

On the Oilers, there's no happy medium. Draisaitl either plays with McDavid or with complete junk in the form of washed-up veterans or non-NHL players.