Agree or Disagree: Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Draisaitl, and Matthews are the 5 best goal scorers of the 21st century

[olli]

How about the player that is #2 in regular season goals, #3 in playoff goals, is one of the five multiple Richard winners since 2000, and is one of the two players to have a Richard and a playoff goalscoring title on his resume?

Bro will never stop fighting the good fight for his pal Crosby

 

[daver]

Bro will never stop fighting the good fight for his pal Crosby

How many players have multiple Richards since 2000?

 

[filinski77]

His two Richards are the only top 5 finishes in his career, neither was a strong Richard, and they came years apart. He was consistently very good with a couple spike years, but he doesn’t have the peak or run of consistent elite production of these others. For instance, I’d say he has a better goal scoring career than Kovalchuk, but I think Kovalchuk from 02-03 to 09-10 was a better run of seasons than Crosby had. I would call him a better goal scorer based on that.

Yeah easily 2 of the weakest rockets of the last 25 years.

From the playoff perspective too, he only has 4 goals in 25 cup final games. He gets no extra brownie points for playoff goal scoring in my books due to that.

 

[filinski77]

Imo McDavid gets the Gretzky treatment for goalscoring. Gretzky scored 90+ goals one year, and McDavid had 60+, but some fans struggle seeing both guys’ greatness as goal-scorers because of their superior play making skills.

Not really comparable. Gretzky was the best goalscorer in the world during his prime, and it wasn't even close. McDavid is nowhere near that.

By the time Gretzky was McDavids age, he had lead the league in goals FIVE times (as opposed to McDavids one).

The reality of it is that McDavid outside of his win in 2023, and then in 2020 only being about 10% behind #1, he has been nowhere even close to the top goal scorer in the league - which is the complete opposite of Gretzky

Year vs, McDavids full season pace vs. the goal leader:
2016 = -21
2017 = -14
2018 = -8
2019 = -8
2020 = -4
2021 = -8
2022 = -15
2023 = 0 (won)
2024 = -34
2025 = -18

​

 

[authentic]

I do think he’s a bit better playmaker but he also only played with Kovalchuk for 3 seasons and 2 of those were under 60 games.

Right. And Kovalchuk didn’t reach anywhere close to the peak Matthews has in goal scoring during those games. Even while playing 7 minutes on the powerplay compared to like 3-4 for Matthews

 

[daver]

Yeah easily 2 of the weakest rockets of the last 25 years.

That's a ridiculous statement. From 2006/07 to 2018/19, only three players bettered his 51 goal season besides OV:

Vinny - 52 in 06/07 in a higher scoring season
Kovalchuk - 52 in 07/08 in a higher scoring season
Stamkos - 60

His 44 goals was as good as any other non-OV total in the DPE 2.0 from 13/14 to 16/17 considering he missed 6 games.

From the playoff perspective too, he only has 4 goals in 25 cup final games. He gets no extra brownie points for playoff goal scoring in my books due to that.

An equally ridiculous statement. So goals scored in 3/4 of the games directly attributable to the Pens winning a Cup are not as important as meaningless goals scored in Game 23 of the regular season??

You have conveniently ignored his goal pace in 10/11 which strange given your post above about Wayne and McDavid.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Agree with everyone except Kovalchuk.

McDavid or Crosby, maybe.

 

[Regal]

Right. And Kovalchuk didn’t reach anywhere close to the peak Matthews has in goal scoring during those games. Even while playing 7 minutes on the powerplay compared to like 3-4 for Matthews

True, but Matthews hasn’t had his peaks in every year with Marner either. I don’t actually think Kovalchuk was better or could have done better necessarily, but it’d be easier to have a spike season in 8-9 chances while playing with an elite playmaker than in only 3 (and 2 of those being shortened).

 

[rockymtnoyster]

Kovalchuk recieving passes from the likes of todd white during his peak years while Matthews is receiving them from Marner, Nylander, Reilly and Tavares. lol
Kovalchuks supporting cast was awful, while Matthew's is arguably playing with HOFers.
Kovalchuk did it while playing for a lowly Thrashers team, the next season the guy left Atlanta they sold the team ...
Kovalchuk will never get the credit he deserves, in a few years people will be debating whether Kyle Conner is a better goalscorer then Kovy... smh

 

[authentic]

True, but Matthews hasn’t had his peaks in every year with Marner either. I don’t actually think Kovalchuk was better or could have done better necessarily, but it’d be easier to have a spike season in 8-9 chances while playing with an elite playmaker than in only 3 (and 2 of those being shortened).

True enough. Also the opportunity to build more chemistry over time could’ve been a factor as well. He seemed to me like the Bure type though who didn’t really need that elite setup man to thrive, but doesn’t mean both couldn’t have been better off with one either.

Going back and looking at old Kovalchuk highlights I’m almost surprised he didn’t approach 60 goals a few times, especially that one season where he had close to 7 minutes in powerplay time. He had beyond elite physical attributes with his shot, hands, speed and size that very few players have had. In some ways he looked even more impressive than Ovechkin with the same type of frame.

 

[authentic]

Kovalchuk recieving passes from the likes of todd white during his peak years while Matthews is receiving them from Marner, Nylander, Reilly and Tavares. lol
Kovalchuks supporting cast was awful, while Matthew's is arguably playing with HOFers.
Kovalchuk did it while playing for a lowly Thrashers team, the next season the guy left Atlanta they sold the team ...
Kovalchuk will never get the credit he deserves, in a few years people will be debating whether Kyle Conner is a better goalscorer then Kovy... smh

Matthews finished 2nd in the NHL in goals as a rookie playing with rookie Connor Brown, rookie Hyman and rookie Nylander, also while averaging just over 17 minutes total and 2:28 per game on the powerplay. Never saw a second of ice time that season with rookie Marner either, at ES or on the powerplay, while hitting like 15-20 posts in the process and playing a fairly responsible defensive game under Babcock. He could’ve easily been the league goals scoring leader with a little more luck under those circumstances as a rookie! Kovalchuk’s best season playing with Marc Savard and averaging 24 minutes and near 7 minutes of powerplay time he never finished better than 2nd in goals.

 

[rockymtnoyster]

Matthews finished 2nd in the NHL in goals as a rookie playing with rookie Connor Brown, rookie Hyman and rookie Nylander, also while averaging just over 17 minutes total and 2:28 per game on the powerplay. Never saw a second of ice time that season with rookie Marner either, at ES or on the powerplay, while hitting like 15-20 posts in the process and playing a fairly responsible defensive game under Babcock. He could’ve easily been the league goals scoring leader with a little more luck under those circumstances as a rookie! Kovalchuk’s best season playing with Marc Savard and averaging 24 minutes and near 7 minutes of powerplay time he never finished better than 2nd in goals.

Not saying Kovalchuk is better then Matthews, I think Matthews is 1a with Ovy. I'm saying kovalchuk dont get enough consideration as a goalscorer, and he deserves to be number 4 or 5 on this list.

 

[rockymtnoyster]

True enough. Also the opportunity to build more chemistry over time could’ve been a factor as well. He seemed to me like the Bure type though who didn’t really need that elite setup man to thrive, but doesn’t mean both couldn’t have been better off with one either.

Going back and looking at old Kovalchuk highlights I’m almost surprised he didn’t approach 60 goals a few times, especially that one season where he had close to 7 minutes in powerplay time. He had beyond elite physical attributes with his shot, hands, speed and size that very few players have had. In some ways he looked even more impressive than Ovechkin with the same type of frame.

Kovalchuk was 6"3 230 an absolute monster physically, his problem was that he didnt have a solid supporting cast, and was god awful lazy and/or terrible at defense. He was a defensive liability most of his career with his plus minus being god awful. I think Kovalchuk never really formed a chemistry with anyone besides kozlov, maybe I'm wrong, but I've heard he was a problem in the locker room at times as well. I feel he probably had a big ego, nonetheless if were talking pure goalscoring I consider him up there with Bure. Consider he stayed with NJ and scored 30+ for 5 seasons and contended for a cup like NJ did when Kovalchuk was there, he would be considered a HOFer.

 

[Stephen]

I always think of Kovalchuk as the version 0.98 of Ovechkin. Similar build, explosiveness, off the charts athleticism. His legacy would have been massive in the NHL had he not farted off to St. Petersburg SKA in the middle of his prime, probably approached 600 goals, 1200 points.

 

[Stephen]

Kovalchuk recieving passes from the likes of todd white during his peak years while Matthews is receiving them from Marner, Nylander, Reilly and Tavares. lol
Kovalchuks supporting cast was awful, while Matthew's is arguably playing with HOFers.
Kovalchuk did it while playing for a lowly Thrashers team, the next season the guy left Atlanta they sold the team ...
Kovalchuk will never get the credit he deserves, in a few years people will be debating whether Kyle Conner is a better goalscorer then Kovy... smh

Disingenuous use of the teammate card here.

Kovalchuk played for a terrible program in Atlanta but was surrounded by quality offensive running mates including Heatley, Savard, Slava Kozlov.

As for the Hockey Hall of Fame comment, Kovalchuk literally played with a Hockey Hall of Famer.

 

[rockymtnoyster]

Disingenuous use of the teammate card here.

Kovalchuk played for a terrible program in Atlanta but was surrounded by quality offensive running mates including Heatley, Savard, Slava Kozlov.

As for the Hockey Hall of Fame comment, Kovalchuk literally played with a Hockey Hall of Famer.

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They didnt even make the playoffs together, shows how bad the team was.

Disingenuous use of the teammate card here.

Kovalchuk played for a terrible program in Atlanta but was surrounded by quality offensive running mates including Heatley, Savard, Slava Kozlov.

As for the Hockey Hall of Fame comment, Kovalchuk literally played with a Hockey Hall of Famer.

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And he played parts of seasons with these players.. hossa had one of his best offensive seasons if not his best , name the best defensemen kovalchuk played with ?

 

[rockymtnoyster]

Whoops I take that back, that was the year they got swepted in the first round.

 

[kevsh]

Maybe a minority opinion but I'd have Kovalchuk in that list, he was that good.

 

[Stephen]

And he played parts of seasons with these players.. hossa had one of his best offensive seasons if not his best , name the best defensemen kovalchuk played with ?

Not all that relevant to be honest.

 

[authentic]

Not saying Kovalchuk is better then Matthews, I think Matthews is 1a with Ovy. I'm saying kovalchuk dont get enough consideration as a goalscorer, and he deserves to be number 4 or 5 on this list.

Oh absolutely we’re in agreement then. I always feel like I would take him over Stamkos though even though Stamkos is objectively the slightly better goal scorer.

 

[rockymtnoyster]

Not all that relevant to be honest.

Well I'm arguing kovalchuk would score more with talented linemates, I meant for longevity, sure having hossa was nice, but they didnt achieve anything or make kovalchuk better, it made hossa better. Kovalchuk posted better seasons without hossa. Give kovalchuk a prime 1c for multiple seasons he produces a couple more goals is what I'm saying, Atlanta got shelled every night , that's why kovalchuk gets overlooked but it shouldn't be for his goal scoring, guy had a ridiculous shot ! He could score from anywhere and looked nasty on the PP QB position clapping lasers.

 

[bleedgreen]

Ovechkin, Matthews and Kovalchuk. I think they’re in a class of their own. Everyone else is great but not quite the same to me.

 

[rockymtnoyster]

Ovechkin, Matthews and Kovalchuk. I think they’re in a class of their own. Everyone else is great but not quite the same to me.

Right, Stamkos peeked at times, so I feel he is 4 on that list for sure, but back on those TB teams got made everyone look good, look at Tyler Johnson, left and was poop, Palat was overachieving, Killorn as well. Theres others obviously but they all could left and have since underwhelmed , TB had a good system in place for a number of years.

 

[Stephen]

Well I'm arguing kovalchuk would score more with talented linemates, I meant for longevity, sure having hossa was nice, but they didnt achieve anything or make kovalchuk better, it made hossa better. Kovalchuk posted better seasons without hossa. Give kovalchuk a prime 1c for multiple seasons he produces a couple more goals is what I'm saying, Atlanta got shelled every night , that's why kovalchuk gets overlooked but it shouldn't be for his goal scoring, guy had a ridiculous shot ! He could score from anywhere and looked nasty on the PP QB position clapping lasers.

I think he was on cruise control for 600 plus goals, 1,200 points in the NHL anyway, but during his Atlanta years he had good running mates, just not a good team.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Kovalchuk recieving passes from the likes of todd white during his peak years while Matthews is receiving them from Marner, Nylander, Reilly and Tavares. lol
Kovalchuks supporting cast was awful, while Matthew's is arguably playing with HOFers.
Kovalchuk did it while playing for a lowly Thrashers team, the next season the guy left Atlanta they sold the team ...
Kovalchuk will never get the credit he deserves, in a few years people will be debating whether Kyle Conner is a better goalscorer then Kovy... smh

You are being disingenuous here imo. AM is a better player than Kovy and I loved me some Kovy (I’m an early 90s boy). Kovy was a monster no doubt, but my eyes say AM is clearly better.