After Tax Salary Caps

[Jason MacIsaac]

Does anyone have an excel spreadsheet with state taxes (over 500 000) to get a better idea what each team's actual salary cap is.

NYR and NJD have roughly 6 to 8 million less per season to bargin with than Vegas or Tampa. Is this something that can be changed in the CBA?

Click to read more...

 

[CupInSIX]

Does anyone have an excel spreadsheet with state taxes (over 500 000) to get a better idea what each team's actual salary cap is.

NYR and NJD have roughly 6 to 8 million less per season to bargin with than Vegas or Tampa. Is this something that can be changed in the CBA?

Poor NYR. Nobody ever wants to play for them.
Except Fox. And Trouba. And Panarin. And


If it weren't for taxes and *checks notes* 11m spent on buyouts...

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Poor NYR. Nobody ever wants to play for them.
Except Fox. And Trouba. And Panarin. And


If it weren't for taxes and *checks notes* 11m spent on buyouts...

I'm not arguing that people will or will not sign with NYR, what I am arguing is the actual contract values after tax that teams have to spend each season.

 

[BruinsBtn]

It's never going to happen and it's a stupid idea.

Agent Alan Walsh said any Canadian player who pays more than 20% total in taxes needs to fire his financial advisor

 

[Cor]

For most players, you are looking at around 8% in New York State.

It’s hard to precisely say what it is, because it all comes down to the exact incomes.

However last year, the state income tax ranged from 4% to 8.82%. The Average player like ranges in the 7-8% range.

In Vegas, Tampa, Arizona (I think), Sunrise, Dallas (I think) there is no state tax. So their dollars go 7-8% farther than that of the New York State teams.


However you have to factor in that players pay state taxes on where the games are played. Meaning, out of 41 road games, let’s say 30-35 are in state income tax places.

So now, those players are still paying a bit of state income tax on 30-35% of their pay cheque.


So the real advantage comes if a team like Vegas does heavy signing bonuses.


Now this was a while ago, but I believe someone went through everything from state taxes to federal taxes average cost of living and such, and to match Tampa Bay’s 8.5M contract, Toronto would’ve had to offer 9.8-10.3M IIRC

 

[Unspecified]

What is this taxes stuff (Texas voice)

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Wait... I thought taxes paid for things for the people they are taxed from... so why wouldn’t it count

 

[triggrman]

When you pay a state income tax, you get a write off on Federal Income Tax so figure that in too. Also most states with no income tax have higher sales, alcohol and entertainment taxes. Figure that as well.

And again you pay taxes where money is earned not where you live so figure that out as well. This also means signing bonuses for those that live somewhere else in the offseason.

so I’m going to call bullshit to some huge multimillion dollar advantage

 

[tucker3434]

Have said before, will say again: incorporating two countries and a whole bunch of local governments tax codes into the CBA would be an absolute nightmare.

 

[txpd]

Unless I misunderstood, state income taxes are paid game by game for the market the game is played in. Meaning that all the players in a Rangers Lightning game get the no tax break in Tampa and all the players pay the NYC rate when they play in MSG. The advantage isnt what it seems.

Meanwhile the cost of living in Buffalo is way less than Toronto or NYC and so multiplies their salary cap advantage.

Meanwhile expensive markets like Toronto and NYC and Boston have way more opportunities for players to make significant money off the ice. This is income not covered by the salary cap and is an advantage for those teams over lesser hockey markets like Dallas or Sunrise, FL. Its a much more complicated picture that it looks on the surface

 

[McJedi]

Does anyone have an excel spreadsheet with state taxes (over 500 000) to get a better idea what each team's actual salary cap is.

NYR and NJD have roughly 6 to 8 million less per season to bargin with than Vegas or Tampa. Is this something that can be changed in the CBA?

Yeah. Don’t live in New York or New Jersey.

 

[thesaadfather]

Not sure if how much it helps you but I’m pretty sure CapFriendly has a calculator that has a fair bit of information.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'm not trying to turn this into a decision brief, it is more a discussion thread. Is there an advantage to sign in certain states and how much is that advantage?

 

[violaswallet]

I'm not trying to turn this into a decision brief, it is more a discussion thread. Is there an advantage to sign in certain states and how much is that advantage?

Sure: we need to compute objectively how much the desire to live in NYC affected Panarin and compute a salary cap adjustment. I’ll suggest a million a year

Tavares slept in Leafs sheets growing up and signed for that reason. I think he turned down a larger offer from the Sharks so penalized them Leafs 2M+30 dollars for the sheets

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Sure: we need to compute objectively how much the desire to live in NYC affected Panarin and compute a salary cap adjustment. I’ll suggest a million a year

Tavares slept in Leafs sheets growing up and signed for that reason. I think he turned down a larger offer from the Sharks so penalized them Leafs 2M+30 dollars for the sheets

One is of monitary value where the other is quality of life, the military gives out PLD to compensate for costs in certain cities. I know this is near impossible to quantify but it would be great if you could do the same in sports. Have the base cap but a team like Ottawa has an extra 1.5 million in cap space.

 

[Stuzchuk]

here's what 3M looks like in the NHL... (Income Tax Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps)

TEAM	BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	FEDERAL RATE	MIN. STATE RATE	DUTY DAYS	ESTIMATED TAX RATE	TAX PAID	NET INCOME
Nashville	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.56%	$1,186,795	$1,813,205
Florida	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.68%	$1,190,353	$1,809,647
Dallas	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.72%	$1,191,486	$1,808,514
Tampa Bay	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.72%	$1,191,492	$1,808,508
Vegas	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.79%	$1,193,555	$1,806,445
Arizona	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.50%	186	43.44%	$1,303,166	$1,696,834
Colorado	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.63%	206	43.52%	$1,305,511	$1,694,489
Chicago	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.95%	206	43.64%	$1,309,195	$1,690,805
Boston	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.10%	206	43.78%	$1,313,484	$1,686,516
Carolina	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.50%	206	44.26%	$1,327,897	$1,672,103
Detroit	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.25%	186	44.29%	$1,328,649	$1,671,351
Pittsburgh	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	3.07%	206	44.50%	$1,334,925	$1,665,075
Washington	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.74%	206	44.56%	$1,336,876	$1,663,124
St.Louis	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.51%	206	45.08%	$1,352,525	$1,647,475
Columbus	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.91%	206	45.72%	$1,371,478	$1,628,522
Buffalo	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.08%	206	46.59%	$1,397,572	$1,602,428
NY Rangers	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.08%	206	46.60%	$1,398,059	$1,601,941
NY Islanders	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.08%	206	46.62%	$1,398,544	$1,601,456
New Jersey	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.47%	206	46.94%	$1,408,326	$1,591,674
Philadelphia	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.47%	206	46.95%	$1,408,624	$1,591,376
Calgary	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	47.14%	$1,414,181	$1,585,819
Edmonton	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	47.14%	$1,414,181	$1,585,819
Minnesota	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	9.69%	206	48.23%	$1,446,793	$1,553,207
Vancouver	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	48.94%	$1,468,066	$1,531,934
Winnipeg	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	49.70%	$1,491,074	$1,508,926
Anaheim	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	12.46%	206	50.86%	$1,525,780	$1,474,220
Los Angeles	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	12.46%	206	50.86%	$1,525,780	$1,474,220
San Jose	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	12.46%	206	50.86%	$1,525,780	$1,474,220
Ottawa	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	52.57%	$1,577,098	$1,422,902
Toronto	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	52.57%	$1,577,098	$1,422,902
Montreal	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	52.68%	$1,580,374	$1,419,626

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[coopooter]

I think teams that rank in bottom 5 of desired locations should get 5% higher cap to help compete

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

So
Nashville's Net Cap is 59.5 million
San Jose's Net Cap is 48.35 million

I didn't touch the Canadian teams due to getting paid in american dollars while living in canada.

 

[Henkka]

This discussion still going?

Agents have said that they have all the tools to make every NHL-contract equally taxed. So, if players are not interested in lower taxes by themselves, it's their loss in some organizations.

But players who do care about their tax planning, and let agents work it out, can have same net money in any NHL location.

/end of discussion.

 

[matt trick]

As a San Jose fan, I'd love to see some type of benefit for the CA+NY/NJ teams. It seems like the Canadian retirement thing helps out those teams, but how do you calculate that?

State income tax seems obvious, but then what, property taxes or cost of living? How about the desirability of locations. Living in CA, it's pretty great, but we lost Brian Campbell (allegedly) because he missed having seasons.

It's an advantage, but I think it's more like a 2-3% savings than the 10% one that is often referenced. Does the $1M player opt for Vegas at 975k, probably not because of 25k? Same for the $10M player making 9.75M.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

I think teams that rank in bottom 5 of desired locations should get 5% higher cap to help compete

How do you determine the bottom 5?

 

[wintersej]

here's what 3M looks like in the NHL... (Income Tax Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps)

TEAM	BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	FEDERAL RATE	MIN. STATE RATE	DUTY DAYS	ESTIMATED TAX RATE	TAX PAID	NET INCOME
Nashville	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.56%	$1,186,795	$1,813,205
Florida	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.68%	$1,190,353	$1,809,647
Dallas	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.72%	$1,191,486	$1,808,514
Tampa Bay	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.72%	$1,191,492	$1,808,508
Vegas	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	-	206	39.79%	$1,193,555	$1,806,445
Arizona	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.50%	186	43.44%	$1,303,166	$1,696,834
Colorado	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.63%	206	43.52%	$1,305,511	$1,694,489
Chicago	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.95%	206	43.64%	$1,309,195	$1,690,805
Boston	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.10%	206	43.78%	$1,313,484	$1,686,516
Carolina	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.50%	206	44.26%	$1,327,897	$1,672,103
Detroit	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.25%	186	44.29%	$1,328,649	$1,671,351
Pittsburgh	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	3.07%	206	44.50%	$1,334,925	$1,665,075
Washington	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.74%	206	44.56%	$1,336,876	$1,663,124
St.Louis	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	5.51%	206	45.08%	$1,352,525	$1,647,475
Columbus	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	4.91%	206	45.72%	$1,371,478	$1,628,522
Buffalo	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.08%	206	46.59%	$1,397,572	$1,602,428
NY Rangers	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.08%	206	46.60%	$1,398,059	$1,601,941
NY Islanders	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.08%	206	46.62%	$1,398,544	$1,601,456
New Jersey	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.47%	206	46.94%	$1,408,326	$1,591,674
Philadelphia	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	8.47%	206	46.95%	$1,408,624	$1,591,376
Calgary	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	47.14%	$1,414,181	$1,585,819
Edmonton	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	47.14%	$1,414,181	$1,585,819
Minnesota	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	9.69%	206	48.23%	$1,446,793	$1,553,207
Vancouver	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	48.94%	$1,468,066	$1,531,934
Winnipeg	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	49.70%	$1,491,074	$1,508,926
Anaheim	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	12.46%	206	50.86%	$1,525,780	$1,474,220
Los Angeles	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	12.46%	206	50.86%	$1,525,780	$1,474,220
San Jose	$2,500,000	$500,000	38.40%	12.46%	206	50.86%	$1,525,780	$1,474,220
Ottawa	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	52.57%	$1,577,098	$1,422,902
Toronto	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	52.57%	$1,577,098	$1,422,902
Montreal	$2,500,000	$500,000	-	-	206	52.68%	$1,580,374	$1,419,626

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is just state income taxes. State income taxes that can be worked around with signing bonuses. Does not include city taxes or athlete taxes or property taxes or sales taxes or, or, or...and that just taxes never mind cost of living, etc.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

What an interesting and novel idea for a thread. Can't believe we've never done a thread on taxes before.

Just because nothing came out of a previous thread doesn't mean good ideas will come out of this.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

I think we should penalize Calgary, Edmonton since their players can buy vehicles with no sales tax.

I think we should penalize all Canadian teams since their players get currency conversion benefits being paid in USD.

 

[violaswallet]

One is of monitary value where the other is quality of life, the military gives out PLD to compensate for costs in certain cities. I know this is near impossible to quantify but it would be great if you could do the same in sports. Have the base cap but a team like Ottawa has an extra 1.5 million in cap space.

It’s just not feasible and will create greater inequities to be honest by bad estimates