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Adrian Beltre HOF case

Neutrinos said:
Except for that monster season he put up in his contract year with the Dodgers during the steroid era, does anybody remember Beltre being a top 10 player?

If Beltre is worthy of induction, then I think Rolen has to get in too. And if Rolen gets in, I think Longoria will have a strong case when he's eligible


EDIT: I understand the numbers suggest he's worthy of induction, I just never saw him as a superstar player
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Longo is not in that category yet. Beltre and Rolen didnt have many elite years but they were sooo good for so long and their D was excellent the entire time. All the while playing such a weak position traditionally. They should both get in. Longo has a ways to go.
 
GIN ANTONIC said:
Longo is not in that category yet. Beltre and Rolen didnt have many elite years but they were sooo good for so long and their D was excellent the entire time. All the while playing such a weak position traditionally. They should both get in. Longo has a ways to go.
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Do you like apples?


Longoria was 22 during his rookie year and is now 30. His WAR during that period is 46.5

Rolen from 22 - 30 had a WAR of 47.7

Beltre from 22 - 30 had a WAR of 37.1


How do you like them apples?
 
Neutrinos said:
Do you like apples?


Longoria was 22 during his rookie year and is now 30. His WAR during that period is 46.5

Rolen from 22 - 30 had a WAR of 47.7

Beltre from 22 - 30 had a WAR of 37.1


How do you like them apples?
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beltre is also a unique case because alot of his value is defensively and there are still not any great methods out there yet if you ask me, also i know WAR tries to adjust for park factors but Beltre spent 99 to 09 playing in two very pitcher friendly parks. Also you neglect that Beltre's 20 and 21 year old years yielded him a near 7 WAR.

Beltre has been a near 6 win or better player ever since he went to Boston when he was about 30. I doubt that Longo becomes a 45 win player from age 30 to 37, where Beltre really has built his case
 
Neutrinos said:
Except for that monster season he put up in his contract year with the Dodgers during the steroid era, does anybody remember Beltre being a top 10 player?

If Beltre is worthy of induction, then I think Rolen has to get in too. And if Rolen gets in, I think Longoria will have a strong case when he's eligible


EDIT: I understand the numbers suggest he's worthy of induction, I just never saw him as a superstar player
Click to expand...

That's my brother's argument against Beltre, but he is now on Team Beltre for HOF after what he's done this year.
 
Neutrinos said:
Except for that monster season he put up in his contract year with the Dodgers during the steroid era, does anybody remember Beltre being a top 10 player?

If Beltre is worthy of induction, then I think Rolen has to get in too. And if Rolen gets in, I think Longoria will have a strong case when he's eligible


EDIT: I understand the numbers suggest he's worthy of induction, I just never saw him as a superstar player
Click to expand...

I completely get what you mean here, but the thing is he is just so damn consistent. Sure, he doesn't hit 40 dingers and bring in 100 runs every year, but he consistently gets 20 HR, 80-1000 RBI, even at his age. His defence is also on a whole 'nother level. Honestly, he's the definition of underrated.
 
Beltre is only a 4x all-star (should've been at least 5, since he wasn't named an all-star during his final year with the Dodgers)

And about that final season with the Dodgers, does anybody think he didn't use steroids during that contract year?
 
Vamos Rafa said:
Yet another HOFer who will ditch the Dodger hat.
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Should go in with no hat.

Everybody know that Beltre doesn't like anything touching his head.

y5ZHdnB.gif


 
Voight said:
... but he consistently gets 20 HR, 80-1000 RBI, even at his age. His defence is also on a whole 'nother level. Honestly, he's the definition of underrated.
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Agreed. He's #47 all time in WAR, 1.3 WAR higher than George Brett, and one of the best defensive third baseman of his generation. He should obviously be a first ballot Hall of Famer.
 
GIN ANTONIC said:
Yes. Like everyone should think that because he probably didn't and there isn't a shed of proof that the did.
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In the 3 seasons before his contract year, his 162 game averages were:

21 HR, .254 AVG, .300 OBP, .721 OPS, 92 OPS+

In the 3 seasons immediately following his contract year, his 162 game averages were:

25 HR, .266 AVG, .317 OBP, .770 OPS, 103 OPS+


But in his contract year, his stats in just 156 games were:

48 HR, .337 AVG, .388 OBP, 1.017 OPS, 163 OPS+


It would be naive to think he didn't use PED's during that season
 
Neutrinos said:
In the 3 seasons before his contract year, his 162 game averages were:

21 HR, .254 AVG, .300 OBP, .721 OPS, 92 OPS+

In the 3 seasons immediately following his contract year, his 162 game averages were:

25 HR, .266 AVG, .317 OBP, .770 OPS, 103 OPS+


But in his contract year, his stats in just 156 games were:

48 HR, .337 AVG, .388 OBP, 1.017 OPS, 163 OPS+


It would be naive to think he didn't use PED's during that season
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Lmao. Oh my. His name has never been mentioned with PEDs in the same sentence forever. Don't you think he'd have hit 40 homers every year if he was using PED's ???

Lest we forget he played in Seattle...... :help: :facepalm:
 
Voight said:
Lmao. Oh my. His name has never been mentioned with PEDs in the same sentence forever. Don't you think he'd have hit 40 homers every year if he was using PED's ???

Lest we forget he played in Seattle...... :help: :facepalm:
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No, I think he used them during his contract year to boost his value as a free-agent

Once he got his guaranteed contract, he likely didn't want to continue risking his health by using them

Does that really seem so implausible?

Lest we forget MLB implemented stricter rules regarding PED use in 2005, with a first offense now coming with a 50 game suspension - without pay

So had he continued using them and been caught, it would have cost him millions of dollars
 
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Why would he stop using them in Seattle, where he would have needed them more than anywhere else?

After his deal expired he had to sign a 1-year prove it deal in Boston (yes, Oakland offered him a 3-year deal, but why would he go from one pitchers park to another?)
 
Does this really seem so implausible?
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yes. you're murray chass'ing adrian beltre. it's nothing but speculation and conjecture about a player who has never been linked to anything.

"it could be ped's!" or it could be a 25 year old about to enter his physical prime.

throwing baseless, unprovable accusations at someone is idiotic, irresponsible and trite.
 
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robert terwilliger said:
yes. you're murray chass'ing adrian beltre. it's nothing but speculation and conjecture about a player who has never been linked to anything.

"it could be ped's!" or it could be a 25 year old about to enter his physical prime.

throwing baseless, unprovable accusations at someone is idiotic, irresponsible and trite.
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'He must have been on PEDs'

Why?

'Because!'
 
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