Line Combos: Adam Fox's D Pairing

[noncents]

much ink has and continues to be spilled regarding the opinion that our defense is the primary reason that we have faltered in the playoffs these past three years.

obviously in recent days the majority of discussion has centered around Jacob Trouba, but I think it's worthwhile to discuss the relative lack of emphasis placed on maximizing the efficacy of our best defenseman.

Looking back at the ATOI since Fox's 2nd year, his Norris-winning campaign that saw him cement his 1D status, he's obviously played mostly at even strength with Lindgren.

The questions are these: does this pairing need to be dismantled? What kind of defenseman does Adam Fox need to play with to be his best?

I think Fox playing with Lindgren has very little to do, if anything, what with [the purported Country Club mentality that manifests as Fox preferring to play with Lindgren and getting his way]. I also think shit here takes on a life of its own and as soon as a few vocal posters start throwing charts around and keep repeating the same shit over and over again you get the mob mentality. Lindgren isn't as bad as a lot of people here want you to think , because charts. I saw a pretty popular twitter guy throw out a score of 84 (I'm assuming out of 100) for Eric Freaking Guftasson. Really? Not to mention, the guy aint even signed and people are losing their minds. You've now had three coaches pair the same guys together for the most part. It can't all be just what the players want.

I see this as erroneous logic. An appeal to the authority of two coaches widely denigrated and quickly dismissed (in Gallants case, after consecutive playoff berths) and an appeal to the validity of Fox's preference for a teammate he's comfortable with are not necessarily logically sound. Foxmay be comfortable with lindgren, which may have led coaches to leave that pairing be, but it may not be in his or the teams best interest.

The other factor is that there hasn't really been another option besides Miller. Cap issues have prevented signing another top-4 quality LHD to pair with Fox.

What's the solution going forward? Is the team willing to try Miller with Fox? Is there a trade or signing to be made for another defenseman to pair with our 1D?

Or, if you're if the opinion that Fox himself is not a true 1D and can't be relied upon to bring Cup-winning play from the back end, speak up.

I think we need to fix the defense and I think that starts with finding a LHD for Fox that is better than Lindgren. I'm personally not sure who that is or even what archetype fits best.

What say you?

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[GoAwayPanarin]

Yes it needs to be dismantled.

Fox may have won a Norris with Lindgren, he’d have at least 2 with out him.

Not to mention that he won his Norris with a better version of Lindgren than the one who exists today.

 

[NickyFotiu]

much ink has and continues to be spilled regarding the opinion that our defense is the primary reason that we have faltered in the playoffs these past three years.

obviously in recent days the majority of discussion has centered around Jacob Trouba, but I think it's worthwhile to discuss the relative lack of emphasis placed on maximizing the efficacy of our best defenseman.

Looking back at the ATOI since Fox's 2nd year, his Norris-winning campaign that saw him cement his 1D status, he's obviously played mostly at even strength with Lindgren.

The questions are these: does this pairing need to be dismantled? What kind of defenseman does Adam Fox need to play with to be his best?
I see this as erroneous logic. An appeal to the authority of two coaches widely denigrated and quickly dismissed (in Gallants case, after consecutive playoff berths) and an appeal to the validity of Fox's preference for a teammate he's comfortable with are not necessarily logically sound. Foxmay be comfortable with lindgren, which may have led coaches to leave that pairing be, but it may not be in his or the teams best interest.

The other factor is that there hasn't really been another option besides Miller. Cap issues have prevented signing another top-4 quality LHD to pair with Fox.

What's the solution going forward? Is the team willing to try Miller with Fox? Is there a trade or signing to be made for another defenseman to pair with our 1D?

Or, if you're if the opinion that Fox himself is not a true 1D and can't be relied upon to bring Cup-winning play from the back end, speak up.

I think we need to fix the defense and I think that starts with finding a LHD for Fox that is better than Lindgren. I'm personally not sure who that is or even what archetype fits best.

What say you?

I'm interested to see where this conversation goes.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Miller or Drury will make a trade.

 

[McRanger92]

I think you have to try miller there at least for a stretch to see if it works. If it’s Lindgren again, wtf are we even doing

 

[JimmyG89]

I really hope that Miller-Fox is explored now that Trouba is really the 3rd pairing guy. The only thing is that Lindgren with Schneider or Trouba has been historically bad. Lindgren-Trouba is used as a PK unit because they are good at defense in front of the net stuff, it just so happens the puck is there all the time when they are on the ice.

The reality of the situation is this: Lindgren and Fox are not going to get split unless Lindgren is no longer on the team or Trouba is moved. There is no other combination that makes sense for either. Maybe they can try Lindgren-Schneider which has pretty good production in extremely limited time, but the pair is basically propped up by insane shooting and insane goaltending numbers. The excuse of Fox being injured for the postseason will be what is done to keep that pair together, while Lindgren has been tanking the pairing all season.

If you pair Lindgren-Trouba at 5v5, it becomes the 2015 and beyond Staal-Girardi pairing. You might as well take #30 and give it to Igor as a gift because you'd be f***ing him royally.

If Laviolette wanted to be ballsy he could go with Jones. I think the more Jones plays, he is going to show he can handle 2nd pairing minutes. It'd be amazing if we could run Miller-Fox and Jones-Schneider and find a whole new pairing.

 

[noncents]

I really hope that Miller-Fox is explored now that Trouba is really the 3rd pairing guy. The only thing is that Lindgren with Schneider or Trouba has been historically bad. Lindgren-Trouba is used as a PK unit because they are good at defense in front of the net stuff, it just so happens the puck is there all the time when they are on the ice.

The reality of the situation is this: Lindgren and Fox are not going to get split unless Lindgren is no longer on the team or Trouba is moved. There is no other combination that makes sense for either. Maybe they can try Lindgren-Schneider which has pretty good production in extremely limited time, but the pair is basically propped up by insane shooting and insane goaltending numbers. The excuse of Fox being injured for the postseason will be what is done to keep that pair together, while Lindgren has been tanking the pairing all season.

If you pair Lindgren-Trouba at 5v5, it becomes the 2015 and beyond Staal-Girardi pairing. You might as well take #30 and give it to Igor as a gift because you'd be f***ing him royally.

If Laviolette wanted to be ballsy he could go with Jones. I think the more Jones plays, he is going to show he can handle 2nd pairing minutes. It'd be amazing if we could run Miller-Fox and Jones-Schneider and find a whole new pairing.

Jones Schneider isn't a new pairing - they played extensively and exclusively in hartford

 

[JimmyG89]

Jones Schneider isn't a new pairing - they played extensively and exclusively in hartford

Misunderstanding here, the whole new pair is the replacement of Trouba and/or Lindgren creating a brand new pairing.

 

[Fitzy]

It’s not that I couldn’t imagine Jones-Schneider and Lindgren-Trouba as pairings- it’s that I think they’d be used in the reverse priority than I’d prefer

 

[NYRFANMANI]

We need to reach for the stars and obviously try Key with Fox.

I sick and tired of these mediocre defensive lines, where some all-star has to carry a pylon, because management is entirely inept, in the art of asset management and drafting.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It’s going to be Lindgren until the end of time

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I think Miller is the obvious choice. What I’ve seen from Miller is that he’s impacted heavily by his partner - the difference between how he looks with Schneider vs Trouba is asonishing(and this obviously makes sense). I think for Fox, Miller would be a dream partner to have. The way he can skate and cover open ice, opens up Fox to take on his highest version of Risk vs Reward type of playmaking. Miller can also learn a ton from Fox, have solid positional support in the Dzone, and take his game to the fullest extent of his potential(which is sky high). I’d put all my eggs in that basket going into next season and see where it takes us.

 

[B17 Apricots]

At least at face value it seems Drury sees no issue with the left side. They drafted a RHD with the first and yet again another giant low ceiling forward. Zero LHD this draft. Chychrun was dealt for peanuts and Drury traded for a wing with multiple cheap talented wingers still available via free agency. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised here if we see him re-sign Lindgren to a 5x5 deal. I'd take a guess he's perfectly fine with K'Andre and Lindgren going forward

 

[Machinehead]

I can't believe we even have to have a thread about this. It's the easiest thing in the world to figure out and the Rangers have like the one guy in the NHL in that spot who shouldn't be there.

 

[bleedblue94]

Schneider has passed trouba on the depth chart

Jones is not going to walk into the rotation and start in the top 4

Now go ahead and piece this mess together how you want. Lindgren Schneider would be a disaster. The personnel on this team unfortunately points in one direction for the pairings based on what we have

 

[MrAlmost]

I can't believe we even have to have a thread about this. It's the easiest thing in the world to figure out and the Rangers have like the one guy in the NHL in that spot who shouldn't be there.

They also happen to have the 1 guy whose skillet might be the perfect match. Someone that can skate and cover ice the way Fox can't and be an outlet for his great passing. Miller and Fox is how it needs to happen.

 

[Charlie Conway]

Schneider showed potential to play more of a two-way game through the end of last season. He doesn’t have the skating of Miller nor the offensive ability of Fox, but I think he has a good IQ and is a pretty smart player regarding knowing when to cheat up and when to stay back.

If his two-way game gets a bit better, I could see Lindgren’s defensive play playing well off it, and it would be the better option instead of Lindgren-Trouba.

It just requires Schneider getting better at making that first pass. I think he has the potential to do it, but I’m admittedly a big fan of his.

Trouba trade options suggests Drury feels similarly about his Top-4 upside.

 

[eco's bones]

One issue with your D is you need to trust at least 4 of them to take the bulk of the penalty killing. Gustafsson and Jones (when he played last year) did not see a lot of that and Schneider did less than Fox, Miller, Trouba, Lindgren. Sometimes one of your main penalty killing D is going to be in the box too. Keeping in mind penalty kill minutes add to the avg. total. That job can make the difference between a 20 minute a night d-man and a 17 minute a night d-man and they can be very hard minutes where the player gets hit more and blocks more shots.....gets stuck on the ice being cycled to death by the other team for long periods of time and against the oppositions most lethal producers. I get the things about great first pass, quick puck movement, offense from your defense but they're not the only things. A good defenseman also has to be able to play well in his own end and under duress and when he's on the pk where it's taking hits to clear pucks forget about the nifty pass to the forward in the neutral zone because he might only have the time, energy, space to do that one thing of putting the puck to the other end of the ice under pressure. That and not Tony DeAngelo's public persona is why he's not a good NHL defenseman.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Fox-Miller 227 minutes together at 5v5 in the last 3 years, 65 xGF%. 80 minutes with the score tied, same 65 xGF% although it’s lower event. How have they never even tried this for a stretch of games

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Fox-Miller 227 minutes together at 5v5 in the last 3 years, 65 xGF%. 80 minutes with the score tied, same 65 xGF% although it’s lower event. How have they never even tried this for a stretch of games

It wouldn't be the first line with good advanced stats, that we never got to see again.

 

[Vitto79]

They could easily go Miller and Fox to start and see how it goes

It’s just easy to go back to Lindgren since he’s always been Fox’s D partner

Jones , Trouba has potential If you just give Trouba a chance lol

My main question is do they leave the 7th open for Robertson to win ?

Ruewedahl back would hurt . Worst case he’s AHL depth on RD W Fitzgerald

 

[Profet]

Fox-Miller 227 minutes together at 5v5 in the last 3 years, 65 xGF%. 80 minutes with the score tied, same 65 xGF% although it’s lower event. How have they never even tried this for a stretch of games

Easy to say in a vacuum.

Harder when you realize you still have to ice two other pairs with the remaining d-men.

Lindgren - Schneider
Jones - Trouba

These are the stuff of nightmares.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I told Drury that the answer was JJ Moser and he was asleep at the wheel

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I can't believe we even have to have a thread about this. It's the easiest thing in the world to figure out and the Rangers have like the one guy in the NHL in that spot who shouldn't be there.

Are we still allowed to say the “R” word? Because this is some typical R*ngo bullshit

Having Fox on this team was a gift from heaven and we’re doing everything we can to squander it .

 

[GENESISPuck94]

It’s going to be Lindgren until the end of time