- Jul 20, 2005
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Player Discussion Adam Fox
- Thread starter Krams
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bleedblue94
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- Jun 8, 2004
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What has improved since Fox came back? Or are we still waiting to find our franchise 9.5m d man the right partner? He continues to struggle defensively and is becoming mainly a power play specialist for a bottom tier power play. Please get this guy out of here before his protection clauses kick in this summer. He's a declining asset and he's never going back to what he was...
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McRanger92
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Yeah I’m kinda fine with trading him. Out of shape from injury, pregnant wife and too many bagels. Needs better leaders than Panarin Mika and Kreider. Rangers traded all him and Laffy’s friends for being soft.
His lack of speed and overall skating ability is crazy.
I just don't know if he can ever be Norris Caliber again because of it.
I just don't know if he can ever be Norris Caliber again because of it.
Mike in Houston
Registered User
He could use a long offseason in my opinion.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
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Its a tough call. Many knees take 1-2 years for full recovery. While I understand the concerns it is possible that the knee held him back during the offseason and season. It is possible he could have a bounce back next season. Not saying that will definitely happen but I would not want to totally underestimate the role the knee played this season.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
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I look at Fox and CK in similar ways. I believe physical stuff held both back this season. I have no idea if they will bounce back next season. That question is probably the biggest Drury will need to decide for the team this summer.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
I told you they were rushing him back, trying to save the season and their jobs.
He needs to be shut down
He needs to be shut down
Last night, we needed a player like Fox to step up and generate offense. He didn't. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he couldn't. The apparent knee injury he suffered last year didn't appear to be all that serious: it didn't require surgery. It is a shame that it has robbed him of just that bit of quickness that has reduced him from elite to the shell of the player we see now. Perhaps it has become chronic. If that is the case, he might never recover, even with a long off-season ahead. Of all the things that have happened this year, this is perhaps the most distressing.
McRanger92
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He's not in shape. The injury excuses need to stop for guys who are in the lineup. He gets outmuscled and beaten in footraces more this year than ever before. The guy is 25 years old. Time to get serious. Enough blaming short off-season's and personal life milestones for being poorly conditioned.
Guyute
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No D would look good when the team as a whole, and especially the forwards, commit turnovers in all three zones, at the blue lines, can't forecheck because they don't hit anyone, force turnovers, or win puck battles, pass up shots, default to East-West passes that aren't even close to being there, reach instead of take the body in the D-zone....the list goes on and on.
Simply put, the Rangers play the wrong way. They don't do anything right. This is why you could put McDavid or Makar on this team and they would look worse.
The forwards are the main culprits. How many times did Panarin, Trocheck, Lafreniere, Kreider force passes that weren't there? They gifted Calgary the puck all game. How many 50/50 battles did Zibanejad even come close to winning? None?
Fox was fine last night. KAM and Vaakanainen were horrendous. Those two couldn't complete a pass to a teammate.
And how do you know that? There is a direct connection between his knee injury and his deteriorating play. These guys are professional athletes, their body is their life, their livelihood, and their pay. Sure, there are some guys you might say this about but I never consider Fox to be among them. These are not the days, long ago, when players might have rarely hit the gym or had all the trainers, strength trainers, personal trainers, therapists, nutritionists, etc., that teams and players have access to today. The Rangers have more staff than they have players. Fox is limited by his physical makeup, his frame, his genetics, from ever being a physical beast, the same with almost all smaller D (Z. Jones is another but w/o Fox's skills). I put "out of condition" with "country club atmosphere" together as something frustrated fans, in all sports, fall back on, whenever a team or individual players underperforms. If anything, when Fox was rehabbing his knee last summer, he might have concentrated on upper body strength. None of us knows, and that includes me, what is going on inside of players' heads, or privy to conversations between players and support staff or coaches. Speculate is what we do. We simply do not know the nature of Fox's knee issues or how much time he puts into the gym.
McRanger92
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Fox' body language tells me he's out of shape. As does Lafreniere's. If Fox knee issues are chronic, we should move on from him. If they arent, he needs to hit the gym. It's not more complicated than that for me. let's not overthink this.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
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Not being in shape can a symptom of not having a good offseason due to knee discomfort. I'm not making excuses. I just realize how hard it is to be at the top of our games when dealing with an injury. I have concerns just like you. This is a huge decision for Drury. Does he think Fox and CK will bounce back? Or does he think this season is how things will be for their future. He really needs to get with the teams doctors and make a two tough calls this summer.
Mike in Houston
Registered User
SA16
Sixstring
If Fox is bad now, is slow, out of shape, and has a bad knee, and is a PP specialist then please explain the following:
1. Why does Fox have (tied for) the best 5v5 pts/60 of his career this year (and doing it with the lowest sh% he's ever had)?
2. Why does Fox have the best xG% of his career this year?
3. Why does Fox have the best CF% of his career this year?
4. Why does Fox have a 56.4 GF% this year? (This is actually his 2nd worst but obviously extremely good and not far off his other season).
5. Why is his max skating speed higher this year than last year and the year before that (and a higher 18-20 mph burst percentage so it's not just one random fluke moment of skating faster)?
1. Why does Fox have (tied for) the best 5v5 pts/60 of his career this year (and doing it with the lowest sh% he's ever had)?
2. Why does Fox have the best xG% of his career this year?
3. Why does Fox have the best CF% of his career this year?
4. Why does Fox have a 56.4 GF% this year? (This is actually his 2nd worst but obviously extremely good and not far off his other season).
5. Why is his max skating speed higher this year than last year and the year before that (and a higher 18-20 mph burst percentage so it's not just one random fluke moment of skating faster)?
effen
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Reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
McRanger92
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I don't think he's bad, I just think he's dogging it. I need something to explain why he's constantly slumping his shoulders and out of position on defense.
bleedblue94
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This is a trend with fox and at his age it shouldn't be a down trend but it is.
bleedblue94
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Stop referencing max speed and bursts. Speed bursts for a defender are oh shit moments when they need to get back on the play. Most of those bursts are him trying to chase down a player that went around him with the puck or snuck around him on an odd man rush. What's his aggregate speed while I'm possession of the puck, 5?
If fox has been this good this year then it's amazing that this team is so bad. You'd think the team would only suck 60 percent of the time of these stats held up. And to think he was sooo soo good with lindgren on his side. I'm sure fox's numbers are elite elite now that lindgren the anchor is gone??
bleedblue94
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Conditioning...
It's a theme with this team. They are in great condition by normal standards but for NHL elite level athletes the rangers game to game play and look like one of the most tired teams in the league. And what happens when a hockey player is tired? Mental mistakes. What plagues the rangers defensively? Effort and mental mistakes. Weird how that matches up...
SA16
Sixstring
Ok then you may go ahead and neglect question number 5. How about 1-4? I don't see any answers. It's a simple question. If his play is so much worse this year, then why does he have his best 5v5 scoring rate and best 5v5 expected goals rate of his career?
To your second paragraph - no, that is not amazing at all. That is common. The Oilers missed the playoffs twice while McDavid put up ~110 point seasons. Good players don't make the playoffs every year. Keeping with defense, you'd think if Quinn Hughes has been so good this year his team would be doing better than tied for the WC2.
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bleedblue94
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McDavid's teams were immature and young. The rangers are overrun with vets and a roster that just went to the conference finals the previous year. Comparing the two is completely disingenuous and you know that...
Hughes is playing with a pulled oblique and an injured hand with a roster that is much worse than nyr and that is also missing it's #1 goalie basically all year. Oh and a team that traded away it's #1 center TO THE RANGERS mid season. I think Hughes is doing a hell of a job. Your comment just now clearly shows you haven't watched him with any regularity this year. He is literally dragging that team forward right now. The fact that you bring up how the two teams are basically in the same situation right now helps my point considering just how gutted the Canucks are right now. They're missing their number one Center because he's in New York and their number one goalie. They have no business even being anywhere near the playoffs meanwhile the rangers have their full roster and they are in the same situation as the Canucks.
As for points 1-4, there are so many contextual things missing from just posting that numbers that I'm not going to start a deep dive to determine the context. You can post numbers like that and in a vacuum go ooooh ahhhh but what's the value if you don't know deployment, zone starts, matchups, strength of opponent on ice. There was a time years ago fox was routinely on the ice against the other team's best players, is that still the case or did that change this year as lindgren's ability to keep up diminished? Have Miller/borgen been getting the harder assignments? You can post selective stats all you want but without context they mean nothing.
