Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXXI: The Trotzification

[caps4cup]

@AdamVingan: Barry Trotz's philosophy on line combos is that he likes to keep two players together, switch out the third if change is needed. #Caps


Ovechkin- Backstrom
Kuznetsov- new top 6 fwd
Chimera-Ward
Brown-Latta

??

Leaves Brouwer, Johansson, Laich, Fehr, and Wilson. Didn't know where to put Wilson after Mac's comments. Guessing Laich will be with Chimera and Ward to start. Maybe Brouwer with 8 and 19.

Which leaves:

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Brouwer
Kuznetsov-2C-Wilson
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Brown-Latta-Fehr

Get Thornton as the 2C and that's not too shabby for your top 6. Leaves mojo to trade for a Dman.

There's a lot you could do with the pieces we have right now.

 

[Capathetic]

MJ90 has the flaws of a young Swede with concussion problems. They aren't physical and that's why people want him moved. His speed and pass are among the best on the team and if he's moved I hope it's for an upgrade in another area and not just because he's "weak on the puck".

Play the kid at center with someone who can finish. He wasn't on the silver medal winning team Sweden for no reason. Got more playing time than Nyquist even though they arrived at the same time and Nyquist was destroying the league.

 

[HOLDITHERE*]

MJ90 has the flaws of a young Swede with concussion problems. They aren't physical and that's why people want him moved. His speed and pass are among the best on the team and if he's moved I hope it's for an upgrade in another area and not just because he's "weak on the puck".

Play the kid at center with someone who can finish. He wasn't on the silver medal winning team Sweden for no reason. Got more playing time than Nyquist even though they arrived at the same time and Nyquist was destroying the league.

No, people are just blinded by his speed. Which isn't even all that. He's a few great passes here and there, sure. Not enough to warrant keeping him. 90% of the time, he's completely useless. I've never disliked a player on my own team so much.

But hey, if we can keep that curtain of belief up that he has potential, I'd be happy to deal him for a steal.

 

[BobRouse]

Again

Boudreau loved MJ.

Hunter really liked him.

Oates clearly liked him.

Swedish coach liked him.


He's doing something right and its easy to overlook the good he brings if all we do is focus on what he can't do.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Interesting how trotz like to keep players in pairs for line chemistry Ovie and Nick and Ward and chimmer are set so that leaves Mojo Fehr Kuz Liach Brouwer Wilson and maybe Garbo as the other pairs assuming all are back. If Mac does want Wilson to turn into a top 6 player hes going to have to spend time in hershey to develop his scoring touch or be on the 4th line and goon it up again.
When Brooks blows his groin out in the 15th game give wilson his 2nd line shot.

AO NB Kuz
Liach Mojo Brouwer
Ward Fehr Chimmer
Latta Beagle Brown

I would love to see all our skill on the 1st scoring line, then have the rest be grind it out trotz style hockey.

 

[txpd]

Again

Boudreau loved MJ.

Hunter really liked him.

Oates clearly liked him.

Swedish coach liked him.


He's doing something right and its easy to overlook the good he brings if all we do is focus on what he can't do.

and we know now that neither Oates nor Hunter played McPhee's players that they didn't want to play. We may have no use for 90 but all those coaches seemed to have plenty of use for him

edit: totally disagree that Wilson's path to a quality top 6 career has to be thru the AHL. I don't think he plays any non injury rehab games in the AHL

edit 2: when all is said and done I think we are still going to be arguing about Wilson and Johansson and Carrick

 

[um]

-trade brouwer + johansson for an good defensemen, not some maybe top 4 guy that we'll get in a 1 for 1 deal.
-get rid of laich if you can

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Ward (hes our best RW, dont think chemistry with chimera is the best way to use him, plus his all around game complements OV and Nick perfectly)
Kulemin-Grabovski-Kuznetsov
Chimera-3C/Laich-Fehr
Brown-Latta-Wilson

Alzner-Carlson
LD-Green
Schmidt/Hillen/Cheap UFA-Orlov

Holtby
Cheap UFA

also if grabo+kulemin doesnt work out id love to get cammaleri, he's just the type of playoff player that we need... one that shows up.

 

[EroCaps]

Move Green, Erskine and one of Laich/Brouwer. Get back a top 4 defensive D and pair him with Orlov. Also a cheap top 9 wing.

Sign Stastny.

Done.

 

[MW6]

-trade brouwer + johansson for an good defensemen, not some maybe top 4 guy that we'll get in a 1 for 1 deal.
-get rid of laich if you can

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Ward (hes our best RW, dont think chemistry with chimera is the best way to use him, plus his all around game complements OV and Nick perfectly)
Kulemin-Grabovski-Kuznetsov
Chimera-3C/Laich-Fehr
Brown-Latta-Wilson

Alzner-Carlson
LD-Green
Schmidt/Hillen/Cheap UFA-Orlov

Holtby
Cheap UFA

also if grabo+kulemin doesnt work out id love to get cammaleri, he's just the type of playoff player that we need... one that shows up.

Yes on Cammalleri, heck I'd even go for Briere (with some salary retained, to center Chimera/Ward).

Brouwer - Boychuck
Green, Johansson, 1st - Thornton, Vlasic
Erskine, 3rd - Briere 25% rsa

Ovi-Thornton-Wilson
Cammalleri-Backstrom-Kuznetsov
Chimera-Briere-Ward
Laich/Brown-Latta-Fehr

Alzner-Carlson
Vlasic-Boychuck
Hillen-Orlov

Holtby

 

[Liberati0n*]

Wilson should play with skill...on the second PP unit. At ES, if he's up, he should remain on 4, but with Latta and Brown instead of Beagle, Volpatti, etc. Those two are skilled enough to let Wilson play a more offensive role and all three have common strengths that can allow them to be very effective as a unit. I think that could be one of the best 4th lines in the league, assuming some/all of them can provide some quality PK minutes.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Yes on Cammalleri, heck I'd even go for Briere (with some salary retained, to center Chimera/Ward).

Brouwer - Boychuck
Green, Johansson, 1st - Thornton, Vlasic
Erskine, 3rd - Briere 25% rsa

Ovi-Thornton-Wilson
Cammalleri-Backstrom-Kuznetsov
Chimera-Briere-Ward
Laich/Brown-Latta-Fehr

Alzner-Carlson
Vlasic-Boychuck
Hillen-Orlov

Holtby

That package probably lands Thornton OR Vlasic (if the latter is even available).

 

[um]

Move Green, Erskine and one of Laich/Brouwer. Get back a top 4 defensive D and pair him with Orlov. Also a cheap top 9 wing.

Sign Stastny.

Done.

if we move green than we should have more than one D coming back, not even from the trade but from something else is fine, moving green is pointless if we just end up with this:

alzner-carlson
new D-orlov
hillen/schmidt-oleksy?

id rather add to this defense than move guys out.

 

[EroCaps]

if we move green than we should have more than one D coming back, not even from the trade but from something else is fine, moving green is pointless if we just end up with this:

alzner-carlson
new D-orlov
hillen/schmidt-oleksy?

id rather add to this defense than move guys out.

You might be right. Maybe a low cost bottom pairing signing.

I just think that the D was so mismanaged last season and replacing Green with a legit top 4 guy would make such a difference that I'd be willing to bet Trotz and Noel could get quite a bit out of that roster.

 

[um]

You might be right. Maybe a low cost bottom pairing signing.

I just think that the D was so mismanaged last season and replacing Green with a legit top 4 guy would make such a difference that I'd be willing to bet Trotz and Noel could get quite a bit out of that roster.

i somewhat understand and agree with moving green, but i only think it should happen given a certain convenient scenario. that scenario involves adding two top 4 defensemen instead of one as i don't think orlov is ready for a top 4 role, or at least he isn't good enough to make up for a horrible third pairing and a below average first pairing.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I hope as things progress someone asks Trotz about the PP. I don't know what area Noel would cover as an assistant, but if there's a way to retain Forsythe to coach the PP I'm all for it. If Noel were the defensive assistant, I don't think there's much of a reason not to keep Forsythe in his current role. I'm sure he's not married to Oates' philosophies.

 

[Sam Spade]

Green and Johnnson are worth nothing. One is always hurt and one can't hold onto the puck for fear of getting hit. If BMac can package them for anything decent (top 4 dman) I will have immediate respect for him.

I wouldn't give up pick 13 though unless it helps get a top TWO dman or legit top two center. And if Haydn Fleury is still around at 13 (not that he will be) I don't trade that pick at all. That kid is the real deal.

 

[FloridaCap]

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Brouwer

 

[Hivemind]

While Johansson certainly stalled in development, Oates managed to put him in a position that exposed his weaknesses and did little to emphasize his strengths. It's clear Oates wanted to use his speed and skill at gaining the zone to be the line's F1, but Johansson was not suited for the net presence or board work associated with Oates' implementation of that role. Looking at how selective Johansson was about his shots, namely their area and distance from the net, you can tell Oates wanted MoJo to feed Ovie and bury rebounds. The feeding Ovie part Johansson could handle, but he's not built for net crashing to be a key component to his game. If you look at the 14 players with closer average shot distances, only Travis Moen had a lower shooting percentage and even he had a higher even strength sh%. While some of Johansson's misses are quite memorable, there's absolutely no way that Johansson is going to continue to shoot at 7.5% overall or a mere 2.5% at even-strength. He's due for a rebound season in the goal scoring department (and quite possibly elsewhere given his 98.3 PDO), and quite possibly growth if Trotz can utilize him better.

Let's not forget that Johansson is only 23 and has a mere $2M cap hit. There are plenty of forwards who are carrying even less weight than Johansson, who still managed to put up 44 points and was the team's 4th leading scorer. He was the most cost-effective player on the team, with each point he produced only cost $45,454 against the cap. Chimera ($47,619) and Fehr ($48,387) are the next best values and the only ones even close. All this while being neutered by Oates' system.

In Johansson, I don't see a player that's failed so much as one that can be saved. Look back and remember why we were excited about him in the first place. Take him off the left wing so he can use his surprisingly effective one-timer, which he only fired twice this season. Rather than dump and chase, actually have a system with meaningful zone entries to take advantage of his speed with the puck.

You need to get production from budget players, and Johansson provides that. I want to see what Trotz can do with him before giving him up. He's still one of the more productive players and best possession forwards on the team. Get him away from left wing, allow him to shoot more, allow him to be more than Ovie's set-up man and I think the results will improve. And it's not like this team has a lot of skill in the minor ranks right now.

 

[Langway]

And it's not like this team has a lot of skill in the minor ranks right now.

Next season Hershey will have more actual forward prospects developing than they've had in over five years. Maybe most won't be ready for spot duty next season but I wouldn't rule it out. Plus, Johansson will be arbitration-eligible after next season so while he's cheap next year that will only continue beyond that if he has a poor season.

If they think he can hack it at center it's perhaps worth experimenting with but I don't know if there's much basis for it in a physical or work rate sense. It limits some of his weaknesses but even at center he's going to need to win battles (important defensive ones) and be good at faceoffs. I don't see much evidence for either or that he was tactically limited to avoid shooting. He just has a crappy shot and very little strength on his stick generally.

Maybe they do give him a season to figure it out but if I'm MacLellan contemplating making a series of moves to further rebalance and restructure the team he would be one of the first players I'd think of moving. Maybe better conditioning and a more vigorous camp can get him back to the sort of player he was initially but even that player didn't look all that special. Perhaps that's making him a victim of his trade value vs. some others due to his youth and potential upside but given some of the talent in the fold and on the way his window to make himself vital is closing.

 

[Capathetic]

Green and mojo worth nothing.....mmmmkaay.

Oates entire system made the whole roster "weak on the puck"

The sharks are not dealing their Alzner who played for gold winning Canada.

Few comments stood out to me. The we have a price range for a few free agents sounds like a built in McPhee excuse for when these guys sign elsewhere. Followed by we have a lot of young guys I can't wait to see on the roster.

Fully prepared for a Mcquaid like splash on defense,resigning Grabo and not a whole lot else unless another name came available.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Mojo wasn't made weak on the puck by Oates' system. It's been the major holes in his game his entire career and it has only marginally improved.

They screwed up his development by bouncing him around from position to position and system to system.

 

[rumschlag182]

@SkyKerstein: #Caps GMBM "I think we need Brooks Laich. When Brooks Laich's in our line-up our team plays better. A healthy Brooks Laich."

This is infuriating.. He needs to be gone.. No reason to waste that cap hit on hoping a guy can stay healthy.. He may be a leader but he is not good enough to keep around..

 

[Brian23]

I'd still be all about rolling with 19/84/90/Latta(whats his number again?) down the middle next year. I think Mojo has shown his best as a Center, though I'm not sure how well he'll do as the "3rd defensemen" in Trotz system, but I think its best to see him there where Ward and Chimera can cover some of his flaws.

So...

8 - 19 - 92/20
92/? - 84 - 20/43
25 - 90 - 42
67 - Latta - Whoever.

If Wilson isn't playing in the Top 3, he's best served in Hershey imo. I also don't think he's ready for Top 6 and don't think Joel Ward should be anywhere but the 3rd line so Tom's kinda forced into Hershey. I guess what I'm more interested in is how Trotz uses his wingers in his system because knowing that will make it easier to picture where who all will play.

And is Burkaovsky gonna be AHL eligible next year? With how he preformed last year I'd like to think he'd be able to make the jump and start getting accustomed to the American game.

 

[Brian23]

@SkyKerstein: #Caps GMBM "I think we need Brooks Laich. When Brooks Laich's in our line-up our team plays better. A healthy Brooks Laich."

This is infuriating.. He needs to be gone.. No reason to waste that cap hit on hoping a guy can stay healthy.. He may be a leader but he is not good enough to keep around..

What he said isn't wrong, we saw last year for short spurts Laich was damn good. The issue is he can never stay healthy.

While I doubt they'd ever buy him out, nor would they think to trade him for anything other then a ransom, what he said isn't technically wrong.

 

[Atlas]

The current roster is so weak that it's not worth taking a stab at it. The Caps are weak everywhere. Center and D are the most glaring weaknesses.

My A List of players I would dangle for trades or buyout:

Green
Laich
Mojo
Chims (depending on the return. He's getting older.)
Ward (Same as Chims)
Backstrom (If a team would give up a young centerman+ I'd strongly consider it. Backstrom is solid but he doesn't take over games—especially playoff games. Again, it depends on the return. Kesler+?
Carlson (might be too radical of a trade but I wonder if he might return a young player who has higher upside.)
Fehr (for a pair of socks)
Beagle (come on, srsly?)