Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part XLVIII

[strungout]

Johansson probably gets $4M+, IMO.
Beagle is not a 3C on a contender. He probably wouldn't take a $1.25M deal before testing free agency, anyway.
Wilson is not a 2RW on anything but a lottery team.

Regardless of what they do at 1RW, that's a worse team than we had this season. Trades need to happen if they don't want to regress.

$4M+ for Johansson? Oh god.

 

[Carlzner]

The price to acquire a guy who will probably jet in 2 years is too much. Why has Chicago won 3 in the last 6? They went from a **** team to a great team drafting players and letting them play while acquiring guys here and there. Sharp went through that, and all credit to him and the knowledge he has gained from that experience. But if we continue to trade away our assets for quick fixes, how are we going to develop consistently as a team when it is a conveyor belt of quick fixes.

@Raikkonen is right, it is too much and the cap hit is arguably not worth it.

So you want to keep all of our future assets and waste yet another season of Ovechkin and our best shot at a cup?

 

[BobRouse]

Johansson probably gets $4M+, IMO.
Beagle is not a 3C on a contender. He probably wouldn't take a $1.25M deal before testing free agency, anyway.
Wilson is not a 2RW on anything but a lottery team.

Regardless of what they do at 1RW, that's a worse team than we had this season. Trades need to happen if they don't want to regress.

If you assume that Kuznetsov and Burakovsky won't improve among others.

I always use the 90-91 Caps vs the 91-92 team.

We pretty much had the same team minus a shot Langway. We went from a rather average team to, IMO, the best team in the league and we should have won that year.

Why?

Mainly due to the emergence of Bondra, Khristich and the continued progression of guys in their prime like Miller, Pivonka, big Al etc

Sure we grabbed a couple retreads who had good seasons for us but 90% of the change came from the improvement of players we already had.

EDIT:

Lets take the 97-98 team. They were almost an identical version of the team the year before and the one before that.

Sure we grabbed a couple of key retreads at the deadline but the team improved due to the immergence of guys like Kolzig, Gonchar and Zednik (even Bulis).

Internal improvement isn't as sexy as grabbing a player from another team Fantasy hockey style but thats the major source of getting better from one year to the next.

The teams that "win the offseason" rarely do anything (Caps in the Jagr year, Stars this past year, Redskins under Snyder, Eagles "Dream team")

 

[Turd Ferguson]

So you want to keep all of our future assets and waste yet another season of Ovechkin and our best shot at a cup?

If you actually want a RW to play with OV and a 6 million cap hit and are not afraid to trade assets instead of beating around the bush. Trade for... wait for it... Eberle.

Getting Sharp will cost more then he is worth. He'll play 2 years and leave, he won't be worth resigning here since he'll again want more then he is worth. I doubt he is over the moon about the rumors of leaving Chicago to go to either Washington or Florida. I'd pay the extra to get a 25 year old player who has the ability to play in big moments and thrive compared to risking it on Sharp. It is kind of funny because the results we all expect, are not going to come from a Sharp, Vrbata or Oshie deal. I like Oshie the most of them 3 but if we want to finally to have a guarantee in there, pony up and make a big move.

 

[Carlzner]

If you actually want a RW to play with OV and a 6 million cap hit and are not afraid to trade assets instead of beating around the bush. Trade for... wait for it... Eberle.

Getting Sharp will cost more then he is worth. He'll play 2 years and leave, he won't be worth resigning here since he'll again want more then he is worth. I doubt he is over the moon about the rumors of leaving Chicago to go to either Washington or Florida. I'd pay the extra to get a 25 year old player who has the ability to play in big moments and thrive compared to risking it on Sharp. It is kind of funny because the results we all expect, are not going to come from a Sharp, Vrbata or Oshie deal. I like Oshie the most of them 3 but if we want to finally to have a guarantee in there, pony up and make a big move.

Another soft young forward to go along with Vrana Kuz and Bura? You think that's a better fit for this team than the veteran two way sniper?

I guess Oshie does fit our team the best out of the options when it comes to playoff choking.

 

[Hivemind]

If you assume that Kuznetsov and Burakovsky won't improve among others.

I always use the 90-91 Caps vs the 91-92 team.

We pretty much had the same team minus a shot Langway. We went from a rather average team to, IMO, the best team in the league and we should have won that year.

Why?

Mainly due to the emergence of Bondra, Khristich and the continued progression of guys in their prime like Miller, Pivonka, big Al etc

Sure we grabbed a couple retreads who had good seasons for us but 90% of the change came from the improvement of players we already had.

Improvement from the youth would be a welcome boost. But relying solely on improvement from youth is what you do when you're rebuilding. Relying on youth to replace all of Green, Ward, and Fehr is quite a gamble if you want to compete. This is especially poignant for the rosters that have guys like Vrana or Galiev as regulars or have Wilson in the top six.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Another soft young forward to go along with Vrana Kuz and Bura? You think that's a better fit for this team than the veteran two way sniper?

I guess Oshie does fit our team the best out of the options when it comes to playoff choking.

Comparing Vrana, Bura & Kuz in the same age category as Eberle? Kuzy is the only one close and he is 3 years off. He is soft? 284 pts in 356 games with the putrid Oilers. The guy is good, real good. And how can he be considered a playoff choker considering he hasn't even been in the playoffs yet? He is the odd man out in Edmonton and I would call and see what they would want for him. He's a better big moment player then anyone on our team that is for sure.

I think your statement about other caps fans needing to watch other hockey beside the caps applies to you too my friend.

 

[Langway]

Let's go cap dumps. Clap clap clapclapclap.

In light of the quality available in this year's draft, trading the first rounder only makes sense if they're positioning themselves towards being an elite team this year or the year after. Sharp alone doesn't get them there. They need to have a brutally honest assessment of the rest of their so-called complementary forwards and restructure as a result. No matter how they put together their relatively expensive existing bottom six I doubt it's a legit group. Not nearly enough motors there. Take a step towards solving that first and maybe I could get behind sacrificing longer-term upside to push the window further open.

 

[Carlzner]

Comparing Vrana, Bura & Kuz in the same age category as Eberle? Kuzy is the only one close and he is 3 years off. He is soft? 284 pts in 356 games with the putrid Oilers. The guy is good, real good. And how can he be considered a playoff choker considering he hasn't even been in the playoffs yet? He is the odd man out in Edmonton and I would call and see what they would want for him. He's a better big moment player then anyone on our team that is for sure.

I think your statement about other caps fans needing to watch other hockey beside the caps applies to you too my friend.

I was talking about Oshie being a playoff choker. And yes, I do remember Eberle's great WJC moment from......... 6 years ago.

 

[BobRouse]

Improvement from the youth would be a welcome boost. But relying solely on improvement from youth is what you do when you're rebuilding. Relying on youth to replace all of Green, Ward, and Fehr is quite a gamble if you want to compete. This is especially poignant for the rosters that have guys like Vrana or Galiev as regulars or have Wilson in the top six.

In 96-97

We had traded Allison (a star in the making), Anson carter (a very good young player) and Dafoe.

In return we got Oates essentially. Tocchet departed via FA and Ranford was washed up and hurt.

We didn't really do much at all in the offseason personnel wise except attrition as Tocchet was actually pretty darn good for us. (switched coaches, GM)

You MUST expect young players to get better. They won't get better if you keep bringing in vets to take their minutes.

Burakovsky was outstanding for most of last year. His underlying numbers proved it. But we had a logjam of vets ahead of him.

Kuz was in and out of the lineup for most of the year. In the playoffs he really took off because for a couple months prior he got regular duty.

Alot of people here think that Green was addition by subtraction. They know who they are.

I'd like Fehr back and feel its better using money on bringing him and Beagle back than giving it to some guy like Sharp.

I don't care who we get from the outside because if the young guys don't improve we aren't going anywhere.

EDIT: Furthermore we weren't patient with Allison. Schoenfeld brutally misused him. BRUTALLY. He didn't like him for whatever reason. Instead of waiting for this young player to improve we ditched him for a vet.

Now Oates was very good for us those years but Allison was dominant for Boston and was a true #1C that was getting better and better.

We didn't give him the chance. We need to give Wilson and Bura the chance like Boston did with Allison.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

So you want to keep all of our future assets and waste yet another season of Ovechkin and our best shot at a cup?

Why are the only two options trade for Sharp or stand pat?

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I was talking about Oshie being a playoff choker. And yes, I do remember Eberle's great WJC moment from......... 6 years ago.

How many cups does our core players have in the past 6 years & since he entered the league? We're not any further ahead.

All I can think of is OV winning some World Championship medals. Wooo hoo!

 

[Hivemind]

BR, yes, we need improvement from the young players.
However, young players improvement shouldn't be the only thing we have going for us. That's the tactic you use while you rebuild. The young players should be slotted into roles that suit them, not ones we hope they'll grow into. Chicago, Boston, and Los Angeles used youth as cheap, effective depth in their cup wins. In the cases of Saad and Toffoli, they displaced veterans by seasons end. But they were not plan A going into the season. Buffalo and Edmonton slot youth into important roles as plan A, because they lack better options and because they're building towards the future.

For every case of youth stepping up, we have plenty of examples of youth failing.

 

[BobRouse]

Hive

There is absolutely something to what you say. There is more than a single way to achieve the resutls the Caps want.

Mine is different. If you get the vets then you are taking time away from the youngsters.

Young players don't improve by being stuck on the 4th line getting no PP time.

I'd prefer Bura get the prime PP time as opposed to someone like Sharp for example.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Hive

There is absolutely something to what you say. There is more than a single way to achieve the resutls the Caps want.

Mine is different. If you get the vets then you are taking time away from the youngsters.

Young players don't improve by being stuck on the 4th line getting no PP time.

I'd prefer Bura get the prime PP time as opposed to someone like Sharp for example.

Yet you want to keep known postseason failures Brouwer and Johansson who are actually soaking up a ridiculous amount of power play time. How does that work? Are you just going to pretend that Trotz is going to give Burakovsky (or Wilson or Vrana lol) 90 or 20's PP time? Because he won't.

 

[BobRouse]

Yet you want to keep known postseason failures Brouwer and Johansson who are actually soaking up a ridiculous amount of power play time. How does that work? Are you just going to pretend that Trotz is going to give Burakovsky (or Wilson or Vrana lol) 90 or 20's PP time? Because he won't.

Didn't I say I wanted Brouwer moved to the 3rd line? By extension I mean reducing his role especially in the offensive sense. I want Bura on the PP.

Trotz has shown he will use such players more and more. Especially true if he doesn't have vet options to fall back on.

 

[Hivemind]

Mine is different. If you get the vets then you are taking time away from the youngsters.

Young players don't improve by being stuck on the 4th line getting no PP time.

The improvement of young players should take a back seat to team results at this stage in the game. You make the improvement of young players a priority when you're rebuilding, rather than when you're aiming to win the Stanley Cup.

Also, this is why Tom Wilson should have been in the OHL and AHL the past two seasons.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Didn't I say I wanted Brouwer moved to the 3rd line? By extension I mean reducing his role especially in the offensive sense. I want Bura on the PP.

Trotz has shown he will use such players more and more. Especially true if he doesn't have vet options to fall back on.

When Brouwer was demoted to the 3rd line in the Rangers series what happened to his PP time? Hint: nothing.

Your second paragraph isn't true. And Trotz will have vet options to fall back on: Johansson and Brouwer.

 

[BobRouse]

The improvement of young players should take a back seat to team results at this stage in the game. You make the improvement of young players a priority when you're rebuilding, rather than when you're aiming to win the Stanley Cup.

Also, this is why Tom Wilson should have been in the OHL and AHL the past two seasons.

You assume team results will suffer from giving more responsibility to young players. I totally disagree in this case.

When Brouwer was demoted to the 3rd line in the Rangers series what happened to his PP time? Hint: nothing.

Your second paragraph isn't true. And Trotz will have vet options to fall back on: Johansson and Brouwer.

Fine. Trade MJ and Brouwer. Play young players in their spots. Cool?

 

[Hivemind]

You assume team results will suffer from giving more responsibility to young players. I totally disagree in this case.

I make no such assumption. It's a much higher risk strategy to pencil in an unknown commodity into a key position than it is to pencil in that unknown commodity into a lower position and hope they can step up into the bigger role.

 

[BobRouse]

I make no such assumption. It's a much higher risk strategy to pencil in an unknown commodity into a key position than it is to pencil in that unknown commodity into a lower position and hope they can step up into the bigger role.

I'm not going to disagree with that.

But getting an outside vet like Sharp is, IMO, more of an unknown as opposed to Burakovsky getting those mintues. (these two players as a simple example)

We don't know how much Sharp has left in the tank. We don't know how he will fit in the locker room. We don't know if he has chemistry with his new linemates. We don't know how much hunger he has left.

With Burakovsky we know he has plenty in the tank and lots of hunger. We know that his underlying numbers in the top 6 (and his WOWY numbers) were excellent whether with Ovie or MJ.

Also the assets used to obtain outside vet and the salary (which will most likely be higher than an internal young palyer) are going to have adverse effects through the rest of the organization.

Were the Stars better with Spezza and Hemsky?

Were the Caps better with Jagr?


Its not that simple

 

[Turd Ferguson]

More then likely we make that one small time deal to help our top 9 and sign Fehr and Beagle back. Then the shuffling of RW guys onto the top line will occur again.

 

[Hivemind]

Did Chicago acquiring Richards and Vermette to slot ahead of Teravainen cost them?
Should Los Angeles have paved the way for youth to step up instead of acquiring Richards and Carter?
How did Buffalo slotting Hodgson into the top center spot work out for them?

We're already faced with the reality that Kuznetsov is going to have to be the 2C next season. That's putting youth in a bigger position. They don't need to compound that risk by having Burakovsky and Wilson also in key positions or guys like Galiev or Vrana as regulars.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Did Chicago acquiring Richards and Vermette to slot ahead of Teravainen cost them?
Should Los Angeles have paved the way for youth to step up instead of acquiring Richards and Carter?
How did Buffalo slotting Hodgson into the top center spot work out for them?

We're already faced with the reality that Kuznetsov is going to have to be the 2C next season. That's putting youth in a bigger position. They don't need to compound that risk by having Burakovsky and Wilson also in key positions or guys like Galiev or Vrana as regulars.

Wilson will be on the 3rd or 4th line. Only Kuz and Bura are ready for filling a top 6 role full-time.
I expect Kuzya to score 50-60 points next year.

 

[Hivemind]

Wilson will be on the 3rd or 4th line. Only Kuz and Bura are ready for filling a top 6 role full-time.
I expect Kuzya to score 50-60 points next year.

Wilson on the 3rd line is already a promotion, and one I'm not convinced he's automatically ready for.
I'd rather not have both Burakovsky and Kuznetsov penciled into top 6 slots from the get go. If they both outperform the other options, awesome, let them get all the ice time. However, I have no issue with Burakovsky as a 3rd/4th liner with PP2 time when the team is fully healthy. Kuznetsov will be the default 2C out of necessity.

50-60 from Kuznetsov would be awesome. But I put a lot less faith in a good 10 game streak than many posters around here.