Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXV (Any Given Someday)

[Hivemind]

So can we agree that our 2 biggest needs are a 3rd line center and 3rd line wing? We could potentially get both with Orpik out.

Depends on how Orpik looks when/if he comes back. Top 4 LD could be put up there right next to 3C. As much as I like Schmidt, I'd rather put him in a position where he can excel against lower competition.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

He's no longer "waiver exempt." He's now required to pass thru waivers.

Gah, that's the word I meant to use. Instead, I picked one that gave what I wrote the exact opposite meaning. I was trying to say that he'd almost certainly be claimed if he was put on waivers, so he'd be locked into whichever level he started the season at if we care about losing him.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

He's no longer waiver eligible, so the options were to keep him up for the whole year or keep him down for the whole year, and roll with Ellis or Peters as the backup. Seems like a pretty easy choice. Grub's played 115 games in Hershey, there's probably not a whole lot more for him to learn at that level.

Ok waiver issues not the cap. Makes sense.

And it's not so much he has anything to prove at the AHL level, just that he would be playing on a regular basis and not sitting.

Whaaaat? Having a capable backup at the NHL level is hardly a waste. I'm happy to not be white knuckling every time 70 takes a night off.

Even with Grubs backing him up Holtby still plays a **** load of games. So why not white knuckle it with someone like Peters for the few days off for Holtby and use Grubs only for, God forbid, a serious injury to 70?

 

[txpd]

So can we agree that our 2 biggest needs are a 3rd line center and 3rd line wing? We could potentially get both with Orpik out.

I don't think the Caps are looking for a 3c. What Beagle did last night largely doesn't happen if he is the 4c.

It might be that Latta is fighting for his playoff sweater, but Beagle is solid where he is. Which 3rd line wing doesn't belong? Chimera or Wilson?

The Caps are going to need Orpik to win the Cup playing primary minutes.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I don't think the Caps are looking for a 3c. What Beagle did last night largely doesn't happen if he is the 4c.

It might be that Latta is fighting for his playoff sweater, but Beagle is solid where he is. Which 3rd line wing doesn't belong? Chimera or Wilson?

The Caps are going to need Orpik to win the Cup playing primary minutes.

Both of them. Chimera is playing out of his mind this year but he has been a 4th line player his entire career. I'd much rather push him down the depth chart. Wilson too is playing better this season but his offense remains nonexistent and if the refs decide they can't handle him like they did in the Rangers series, they'll whistle him ever time he's on the ice (like they did in the Rangers series). Last year that resulted in his TOI dropping to 5 minutes per game or so.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Both of them. Chimera is playing out of his mind this year but he has been a 4th line player his entire career. I'd much rather push him down the depth chart. Wilson too is playing better this season but his offense remains nonexistent and if the refs decide they can't handle him like they did in the Rangers series, they'll whistle him ever time he's on the ice (like they did in the Rangers series). Last year that resulted in his TOI dropping to 5 minutes per game or so.

Chimera is a fine 3rd line wing. Last year in the playoffs he was getting second line minutes with MJ and Kuzy. He performed well in that role and he has become a legit 3rd line player. He's on pace for more than 20 goals this year and is one point away from matching his point total last year. Scored 20 goals in 2012 and 42 pts in 2014.

Wilson brings physicality and great forechecking to the 3rd line. The ideal scenario would be for Burakovsky and Galiev to overtake Chimera and Wilson, allowing us to play the latter on the 4th line.

 

[artilector]

I think all of the Caps' 3rd liners are somewhat suspect. They do pretty well as long as they can keep the puck in the offensive zone, but in the defensive zone they are far from elite. Also, as a unit they bring very little offense.

The biggest improvement one can make, IMO, is at the position that carries the greatest load -- center. Then you have lots of options with Beagle, e.g. put him instead of Wilson if the latter gets in trouble with refs, or on the 4th line to help roll 4 legit lines. Also, a good center would be a useful backup in case Backstrom or Kuz get dinged up. And if you don't want to screw with chemistry, you can always start by using the new center with Bura on the 4th line, and maybe as a bonus get Bura to come alive.

Moving on to other things -- Kuz's line getting locked in its own zone is also a concern. Kuz's +/- probably means they generally succeed at keeping shots to the outside, but at the moment Kuz seems to need some (more) help. It's not really a knock on Mojo and Williams, because they are better at possession than Kuz, but it might take him a couple of more years to become stronger in his own zone... Just not sure how that line is gonna hold up when things get tighter and faster in playoffs.

One might note that Kuz played well in playoffs with Chimera and Ward.. so that's another potential benefit of getting a good center.. who might end up centering say Mojo and Williams, and Kuz might do better (on balance) with a couple of grindier types.

Just thoughts out loud..

 

[Hivemind]

Jason Chimera is significantly better than a 4th liner, and has been through-out his career. He's a pretty ideal winger for a checking line, and his average production fits well on the 3rd line (granted it has highs and lows, just as most depth players do).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd prefer having Orpik back and getting only a winger for the 4th line.

I don't think Trotz is sacking Beagle from the 3rd line. He's too important there.

I'm with you. Orpik is a warrior we'll want and need come playoff time.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Jason Chimera is significantly better than a 4th liner, and has been through-out his career. He's a pretty winger for a checking line, and his average production fits well on the 3rd line (granted it has highs and lows, just as most depth players do).

If we can get him a real 3C and 3W I'm fine with him on the 3rd line.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Both of them. Chimera is playing out of his mind this year but he has been a 4th line player his entire career. I'd much rather push him down the depth chart. Wilson too is playing better this season but his offense remains nonexistent and if the refs decide they can't handle him like they did in the Rangers series, they'll whistle him ever time he's on the ice (like they did in the Rangers series). Last year that resulted in his TOI dropping to 5 minutes per game or so.

That's not accurate.

 

[hockeykicker]

not like it really matters right now

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

RE: 3rd/4th line C.....

I think Beagle and Latta's recent play will make it tough for the Caps to make a move to shore up those positions unless a gem of a player/deal falls into their lap. How do you push either guy out of the lineup today and what message does that send when they're playing well?

 

[hockeykicker]

Both of them. Chimera is playing out of his mind this year but he has been a 4th line player his entire career. I'd much rather push him down the depth chart. Wilson too is playing better this season but his offense remains nonexistent and if the refs decide they can't handle him like they did in the Rangers series, they'll whistle him ever time he's on the ice (like they did in the Rangers series). Last year that resulted in his TOI dropping to 5 minutes per game or so.

he has 6 years of 14 or more goals. thats really not 4th line stats

 

[Ajax1995]

Chimera is playing out of his mind this year but he has been a 4th line player his entire career.

I'll join the group very much disagreeing with this statement. This isn't the '80's. A 14 goal 32 point 82 game average over a 900+ game career is way above 4th line play. Heck these days it is borderline 2nd line production...

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

RE: 3rd/4th line C.....

I think Beagle and Latta's recent play will make it tough for the Caps to make a move to shore up those positions unless a gem of a player/deal falls into their lap. How do you push either guy out of the lineup today and what message does that send when they're playing well?

Yeah, we're not running a fantasy team, you can't just move the players around at will.
The group has a lot of confidence and a sense of camaraderie right now, you don't want to disrupt that. With a 25-6-2 record, I think it would be wise to wait until a problem arises.

 

[tycoonheart]

I think if Tom Wilson can chip in offensively a little more this 3rd line is fine.

 

[txpd]

Yeah, we're not running a fantasy teams, you can't just move the players around at will.
The group has a lot of confidence and a sense of camaraderie right now, you don't want to disrupt that. With a 25-6-2 record, I think it would be wise to wait until a problem arises.

Last night Beagle wins 14-16 face offs against a top face off team, one of which was an assist on the gwg. Wilson played over 17 minutes including the most of any forward on the pk.

 

[artilector]

Here's the thing with Chimera, IMO. He is an good-to-great 3rd liner when his line is on the attack. He is a shaky 3rd liner when his line has to defend.

And this is actually true, to some extent, for both Beagle and Wilson, as well. Which means that for the whole 3rd line the motto is -- attack or die. Not the most secure basis for a 3rd line, especially if it will need to face the best offensive lines in playoffs.

Of course, one can say it about the whole top-6, too. When the win the possession battle, they are monsters, when the opponents get a step on them, they look shaky.

 

[artilector]

Last night Beagle wins 14-16 face offs against a top face off team, one of which was an assist on the gwg. Wilson played over 17 minutes including the most of any forward on the pk.

Yeah, and I drive a Camry, doesn't mean that if I had a BMW, it would be sitting in the garage!

 

[Ajax1995]

RE: 3rd/4th line C.....

I think Beagle and Latta's recent play will make it tough for the Caps to make a move to shore up those positions unless a gem of a player/deal falls into their lap. How do you push either guy out of the lineup today and what message does that send when they're playing well?

I'm not looking to push either of those two out of the lineup, I'm looking to push Burakovsky/Galiev out of the lineup. Neither fits either of the bottom 2 lines in anyway IMO.

Honestly assuming Orpik comes back and plays at least well enough for the 3rd pairing and PK the one NEED I see the Caps having is bottom 6 forward. And in order of preference I would like that guy to be a 3C, 4C, or 3RW.

Ideally I see the bottom 6 being:
Chimera-new 3C-Beagle
Laich-Latta-Wilson

which could also be:
Chimera-new 3C-Wilson
Laich-Beagle-Latta

 

[twabby]

I think Backstrom and Kuz should be flipped. Kuz is not a possession driver like Backstrom is, so I think Kuz's natural talent would be helped by having two great wingers (Ovie and Oshie). Meanwhile, Backstrom/Williams/Mojo has been a great possession line this year and they are certainly capable of scoring goals too. I think I like this setup better, and the Caps looked better earlier in the year when the lines were like this. This is when they were limiting the shots against to a league low.

It's hard to make that switch when the team keeps winning, but I think long-term that is going to make the most sense come playoff time.

 

[Acallabeth]

Here's the thing with Chimera, IMO. He is an good-to-great 3rd liner when his line is on the attack. He is a shaky 3rd liner when his line has to defend.
And this is actually true, to some extent, for both Beagle and Wilson, as well. Which means that for the whole 3rd line the motto is -- attack or die. Not the most secure basis for a 3rd line, especially if it will need to face the best offensive lines in playoffs.

I wouldn't agree with this. Beagle is great in his own zone, and Wilson is quickly getting there too. His play without the puck has been aeons better this season, so if he can develop offensive game at least a bit, I'm fine with our 3rd line. The problem is that our 4th line is useless, they aren't a shutdown unit or a grind line, they are just barely of NHL level. So it makes our bottom 6 a good checking line and just a bad line.

Ideally I see the bottom 6 being:
Chimera-new 3C-Beagle
Laich-Latta-Wilson

which could also be:
Chimera-new 3C-Wilson
Laich-Beagle-Latta

Or just sit Laich (can we send him down?), play Galiev and Latta with a new C. Don't mess with the line that's actually working, improve the biggest weak point.

 

[txpd]

Yeah, and I drive a Camry, doesn't mean that if I had a BMW, it would be sitting in the garage!

I am not sure that applies the way you want it to. I don't know many bmw's that are 3c type autos. beagle is a super duty truck.

 

[Langway]

I think they probably would have a tough time demoting Beagle given how much the staff likes the guy. Chimera is the weak link on that line defensively so either pushing Johansson down or upgrading 3LW could be the route to a better shutdown mix.

Upgrading the fourth line seems like the easiest move but how does that get sorted out overall? I don't really know what to make of the options there. Latta has been better but in high pace games I don't know what he has to offer. Laich is Laich. Burakovsky is wildly inconsistent. Galiev looks decent in limited opps but is taking a back seat to them trying to get Bura going. Moving Laich and getting back a similar PKer type like Prust and a depth defender (and perhaps another depth forward) might be the most prudent moves at this point. We'll see. There's two months before they need to make these calls.