A Proper World Cup
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NSHPreds1835
Glads/Preds
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
Canada Cup was tournament that gave something unique. Competition between best hockey countries in the world that included players banned from Olympic participation. It was something special, even despite being biased exhibition tournament. Now so called "world" cups are just meaningless exhibition tournaments without any reason to exist, except to make some money for NHL. They can't give anything that can't give Olympics.
Also after NHL dropped from Olympics because IOC didn't give monetary compensation to NHL I wouldn't rule out possibility that some European countries do the same with Canada Cup wanna be. Like Russia for example. I haven't seen much enthusiasm about last WC in Russian hockey management. I have suspicion that Russia participation in last WC was part of the deal with NHL about Sochi Olympics. And now that's over there are no reasons for Russia to participate in this freak circus anymore.
Also after NHL dropped from Olympics because IOC didn't give monetary compensation to NHL I wouldn't rule out possibility that some European countries do the same with Canada Cup wanna be. Like Russia for example. I haven't seen much enthusiasm about last WC in Russian hockey management. I have suspicion that Russia participation in last WC was part of the deal with NHL about Sochi Olympics. And now that's over there are no reasons for Russia to participate in this freak circus anymore.
JETZZZ
Registered User
I dont think so. Between the IOC, NHL owners, and the IIHF, the IIHF are the only ones who seem to have any interest in some sort of Best-on-Best tournament. IOC doesnt care if the NHL stays or goes to the Olympics, as long as they get to pocket all the profits. NHL owners dont care about making the WCoH a real world cup, as long as they can maximize revenue (which is why I expect the same/more gimmicks come 2020). Rene Fasel, meanwhile has been urging the NHLPA to fight for Olympic participation in the next CBA and offered to cover travel/insurance for NHL players in 2018, but NHL owners refused.
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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It really is shocking that the IIHF is the only entity to come out of the last two years of garbage looking good.
La Masse
Registered User
No gimmick teams and the rest is pretty much little details. Anytime you get a chance to watch the highest level of hockey we should embrace it
Why exactly is it shocking? The NHL and IOC are greedy ass entities who, unlike the IIHF, have no responsibility to promote the international game.
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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Because the IIHF has a long history of idiocy, from the basics of organizing a "world championship" for decades when the best players couldn't go to long taking horrible referees to its tournaments. The NHL did a pretty good job of organizing its tournament until 2016, though there was obvious room for improvement. The IOC of course has long been terrible.
To be fair the world championship are organized in the only time frame that fits well with all the IIHF sanctioned national tournaments.
It's not the IIHF fault if the NHL has a humongous regular season. Waiting for the NHL playoffs to end would mean getting all the european players completely out of condition.
There will never exist a proper tournament without both IIHF and NHL working together but that will necessarily mean either a shorter NHL season, or a pause for every leagues in the middle of the season.
JackSlater
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The IIHF made the problem decades, nearly a century, ago. The NHL season did not always stretch into June. In the 1930s for instance the Stanley Cup would be decided generally in early to mid April. That didn't even matter though, since the IIHF stupidly made the "World Championship" an amateur only tournament. Of course, how those rules were enforced would be very selective, peaking under the reign of Bunny Ahearne. These actions left the IIHF and its tournament with bad reputations in Canada, and to a lesser extent USA, which obviously affects NHL perceptions.
I do agree that there is never going to be a solution to make the IIHF World Championship reflective of what its name implies. The reasons for that stem from decisions the IIHF made long ago, though I will say that the IIHF has gone to solid lengths to get as many of the best players there as possible. In recent times the IIHF has done well.
The World Cup tournament needs to get back the vibe of an actual World Cup with nationalistic hockey supremacy on the line as opposed to a sheer cash grab. Until then, it will be fake and hokey for me.
The Canada Cups were great. The 1996 World Cup was excellent. The 2004 and 2016 World Cups were sheer abominations.
The Canada Cups were great. The 1996 World Cup was excellent. The 2004 and 2016 World Cups were sheer abominations.
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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Burke the Legend
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- Feb 22, 2012
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They need to involve Europeans to get buy-in from organizers and fans. Some games should be played in Europe. You don't have to limit the host like the IIHF/IOC does.
In baseball they do this with the World Baseball Classic and it's great.
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It had an artificial feel to me. My biggest issue with the World Cup is the NHL picks and chooses when to hold them, so the fact this one was 8 years after the previous one stripped some of the legitimacy. Instead of consistently holding them every 4 years and building the brand and rivalries, it seemed like the NHL's way of saying, "We need money...let's hold a tournament." (That applies ten-fold to the 2016 one)
Granted, reading back up on the 2004 tournament, the games were played in different venues and cities, which I much rather prefer and which was one of the many dislikes I had for the 2016 tournament simply being held at one venue.
A proper world cup would be run more or less as the Olympic tournament but with a different set of dates. Having a team Europe and U-23 NA team was fun but it made the name "World Cup" really f***ing silly.
A WCOH is never going to meet the prestige of the FIFA WC but it doesn't even have legitimacy and the capacity to be taken seriously among hockey fans, let alone fans of sports in general.
I'll put it this way: if I had more money I'd travel and get tickets to a FIFA World Cup game to have that experience at least once in my life. If a ticket to a world cup of hockey game was more than 40 dollars I might not even be bothered to go to a game if it was hosted by Vegas.
A WCOH is never going to meet the prestige of the FIFA WC but it doesn't even have legitimacy and the capacity to be taken seriously among hockey fans, let alone fans of sports in general.
I'll put it this way: if I had more money I'd travel and get tickets to a FIFA World Cup game to have that experience at least once in my life. If a ticket to a world cup of hockey game was more than 40 dollars I might not even be bothered to go to a game if it was hosted by Vegas.
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Thanks I did not know the history of it, everything makes much more sense now.
It does not even need to get to the level of the FIFA WC.
Take the example of rugby, ok it is propably a larger sport than hockey, or at least you have more competitive teams and are more spread around the globe, but it is still quite a "niche" sport.
Despite that, the rugby world cup is one of the most exciting and beautiful international tournament I can think of. It has rivalries, it has the clash between the two "rugby schools" northern emisphere vs southern, it has big upsets (Japan beating South Africa in one of the most epic rugby matches ever, last world cup, for example) etc.
To get something like that in hockey is possible, it just needs everyone to go in the same direction
I’d honestly like to see as many countries as possible. Maybe a qualifying tournament of some kind prior to the actual tournament starting. I quite honestly wouldn’t mind watching any of the top 20 iihf ranked teams.
I for one would watch a tournament where nations 11-20 battle for spots 11 and 12 in the World Cup.
I for one would watch a tournament where nations 11-20 battle for spots 11 and 12 in the World Cup.
SirKillalot
Registered User
To be fair. The two Olympics are the only income for the IOC. Which they use to run a lot of other tournaments and programs. Paralympics, youth Olympics and a lot of different foundations. Now, is there a lot of sketchy stuff and corruption within the IOC? Yes, and it needs to be sorted out.
But, let's not play the IOC as the big bad wolf compared to the NHL. The IOC does a lot for a lot of sports and even outside sports activities in terms of a ton of different foundations, conferences or learning areas. The NHL doesn't even seem willing at times to help their own players or referees.
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
Also, Avery Brundage at the IOC didn't want the precious amateurs "contaminated" by playing against pros.
Well I think a "proper" World Cup should include the following...
a) Should be a tournament for national teams (not arbitrary parts of continents or age groups). Also, dudes from Sudbury or Worcester shouldn't be eligible to play for Italy simply because their last name ends in a vowel or Ireland because it starts with an O'. I think the current IIHF eligibility rules are reasonable enough.
b) All players should be available to play should they wish to and the country they are eligible to play for is participating. This includes both qualifying (see item "c") and the tournament proper.
c) Any country that wants to participate and officially plays the sport (has a national fed) should have some sort of defined path to qualification. And no, I'm not suggesting Canada needs to run the gauntlet of Romania, New Zealand and Belgium in some sort of qualification tournament, but the mid-tier and minnows of the hockey world should be given some sort of ladder they can try to climb.
d) Should be held at regular intervals.
e) There should be a defined application process for countries/cities wishing to host (part) of the tournament.
Will this ever happen?... lulz, of course not. Instead, like always, we will continue to get a mishmash of weird and flawed tournaments.
a) Should be a tournament for national teams (not arbitrary parts of continents or age groups). Also, dudes from Sudbury or Worcester shouldn't be eligible to play for Italy simply because their last name ends in a vowel or Ireland because it starts with an O'. I think the current IIHF eligibility rules are reasonable enough.
b) All players should be available to play should they wish to and the country they are eligible to play for is participating. This includes both qualifying (see item "c") and the tournament proper.
c) Any country that wants to participate and officially plays the sport (has a national fed) should have some sort of defined path to qualification. And no, I'm not suggesting Canada needs to run the gauntlet of Romania, New Zealand and Belgium in some sort of qualification tournament, but the mid-tier and minnows of the hockey world should be given some sort of ladder they can try to climb.
d) Should be held at regular intervals.
e) There should be a defined application process for countries/cities wishing to host (part) of the tournament.
Will this ever happen?... lulz, of course not. Instead, like always, we will continue to get a mishmash of weird and flawed tournaments.
