The Star: A need for speed drives Leafs captain John Tavares in summer workouts

[Da Cool Rula]

Wow just seeing this thread. Better late than never I guess.

Crosby identified "speed of the game" is an issue as he was aging so most of his focus in the offseason is on speed. And that is why Sid is Sid i.e. one of top players in the league. While JT is JT; one of the good players not necessarily the top players IMO (but of course he can change that if he wants).

If anyone is interested in Sid's interview:

1) Short NHL article

Crosby Opens Up in Podcast Appearance | Pittsburgh Penguins

Penguins captain Sidney Crosby recently joined his former teammates Ryan Whitney and Paul Bissonnette for a candid interview on the podcast Spittin' Chiclets. During the appearance, which lasted for over an hour, Crosby opened up on a variety of topics and shared a lot of great stories. Here are a

www.nhl.com

View attachment 573201


2) Full interview with Sid (worth it IMO, if you have time)

Wow nice post & thx fir sharing

What a bizarre reaction to a generic, fluffy "best shape of his life" summer filler article. Who cares about the desire to win if you can't actually do it?

Also, for all those commenting on his point production being fine (it's still a disappointment given his salary), the bigger problem is that he's a liability defensively and needs to be putting up well over a PPG to compensate. He should take some pointers from Matthews on two-way play.

While I like John Tavares, you are right ppg players are NOT worth 11mil

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Really does seem like what is needed is a super-league without Jacobs and Bettman in charge.

Curious what is allowable in other sports/leagues....

love Kadri but I would be astounded if he comes anywhere close to replicating this season.

Perfect comment. So true

 

[Leafsfan74]

As one ages their legs go first. He will always have his hands, hand eye coordination and knack for the net.

Leaders lead by example so at least he is addressing this weakness and trying to remain a multi-purpose threat. Lose a bit of weight, replace with lean muscle and explosiveness and suddenly you feel 10 years younger.

No athlete can avoid Father Time but he can certainly prolong the period before the inevitable.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

A near PPG 2nd line center needs to have a comeback season?

He's making $11 million. $3 million overpaid.

 

[AvroArrow]

He's making $11 million. $3 million overpaid.

He's a great player who's overpaid, we all know this. He will never be worth 11M, that doesn't mean he can't be an elite player. He has been one his entire career. He's a PPG Center /discussion.

I'd rather pay more for the top end guys than waste money on a bottom 6 plug like so many teams in the past have. Brad Richards, Lucic, David Clarkson, James Neal, so many guys that completely bottomed out.

 

[notDatsyuk]

John Tavares is a ppg player that came back from a horrific injury that looked like it ended his career in the playoffs last year. Saying anything else about the guy is just silly at this point.

It will be interesting to see how well Tavares follows the traditional aging curves. He'll still be an OK player towards the end of his contract.... which, shockingly, is already where we are...last 3 years of a 7 year deal. Guy has been money in the bank for the TML.

I wasn't actually talking about JT at all, just laughing at the different interpretations of 'ppg'.

On another thread, a poster was insisting that 80 points in 81 games is not 'ppg', and the very next post I see says that 60 in 63, 50 in 56, and 76 in 79 are three consecutive 'ppg' seasons.

Properly speaking, he's not and never was a true 'ppg' player, although he's been ppg four times in thirteen seasons.

But personally, I think 'ppg' is a purely arbitrary stat which some people like to use just because it's simple. Who cares if JT or anyone else is technically ppg or a point or two shy? We know what he is. If anything, calling him something that is provably false does him, and your argument, a disservice.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

He's making $11 million. $3 million overpaid.

He is nearly a PPG player playing 16-17 minutes a night as a 2nd line center year after year.

If a player like that became available in FA what do you think they would make?

Kadri had a crazy year but has never come close to that level of production any other year and is looking at a contract between $9-10M AAV.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Curious what is allowable in other sports/leagues....


Perfect comment. So true

Not that I doubt it’s unlikely that he’ll ever put up 87 in 71 GP again, but I feel like there are fans on this board who sincerely hope that it never does. All to insure God’s gift to Leafs fans Kyle Dubas doesn’t look as dumb as he he does already for that trade.

 

[Antropovsky]

Wow just seeing this thread. Better late than never I guess.

Crosby identified "speed of the game" is an issue as he was aging so most of his focus in the offseason is on speed. And that is why Sid is Sid i.e. one of top players in the league. While JT is JT; one of the good players not necessarily the top players IMO (but of course he can change that if he wants).

If anyone is interested in Sid's interview:

1) Short NHL article

Crosby Opens Up in Podcast Appearance | Pittsburgh Penguins

Penguins captain Sidney Crosby recently joined his former teammates Ryan Whitney and Paul Bissonnette for a candid interview on the podcast Spittin' Chiclets. During the appearance, which lasted for over an hour, Crosby opened up on a variety of topics and shared a lot of great stories. Here are a

www.nhl.com

View attachment 573201


2) Full interview with Sid (worth it IMO, if you have time) = at around 36:00 mark he talks about skating speed and being a center I think

Sid is lean, you can see he is has great fitness. Tavares doesn't look like a guy that has put alot of time in the gym. Maybe he is feeling the pressure this year and doesn't want to get Sundin'ed. He and everyone knows that this is a year with a lot of expectations. There is absolutely no toleration for excuses this year...they have run out.

 

[Antropovsky]

Don't see how speed helps JT if it costs loss of bulk. Most of his points come from within 10 ft of the net. If he loses weight and strength in that part of his game it may hurt. Maybe Dubas should find digging wingers who get the puck to the front of the net instead of guys like Willie and Miky who do not compliment JT. Like A certain winger who played in Calgary and now in Florida.

Bulk... what bulk.

 

[therealkoho]

love Kadri but I would be astounded if he comes anywhere close to replicating this season.

Agreed, I actually have the same feeling about Tkachuk too!

If they can finally find a LW to play with JT and Will, I can see JT again going over the PPG mark and Will hitting 95 and maybe a few more points.

I have no idea if the Leafs have somebody ready to take that step(Robertson?) already in the organisation's or they have to go out and get somebody.

It would be huge if they had 2 lines capable of 100+ goal seasons.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What a bizarre reaction to a generic, fluffy "best shape of his life" summer filler article. Who cares about the desire to win if you can't actually do it?

Also, for all those commenting on his point production being fine (it's still a disappointment given his salary), the bigger problem is that he's a liability defensively and needs to be putting up well over a PPG to compensate. He should take some pointers from Matthews on two-way play.

Who cares about the desire to win is a bizarre question and if you don't think it's possible for the team to win, you should probably stop wasting your time here.

This team is one of the favourites to win the cup next year. I think they can win, JT obviously feels they can win and is working his butt off doing everything he can think of doing to help us win. Giving him the thumbs up for doing just that seems like a natural reaction to me but if you think that's "bizarre", you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

I'm enjoying the summer, hope you are as well. Cheers.

 

[TakeTheBody]

If he really wants to help the team. Waive the no trade clause.

 

[Sparksrus3]

JT needs a comeback season to give us a legitimate shot… might as well be this season.

Go Leafs

Legitimate shot at what ? What is you expectation for a successful season ? Win a round should be the goal . This is not a jab at you . Great top 6 . Middle of the road everywhere else . I remember when JT was a rookie he spent more time on his belly or butt on the ice than on his skates . At least it seemed that way. He hired a skating instructor and was so much better into year 2 and 3 . He was such a great player on the Islanders but never had that #2 to help . examples OV had Backstrom, Sid and Geno, Kane and JT, etc, …. Tavares was so talented that he had the isles picking in the 4-5 range instead of 1-2 where they belonged and he could have gotten help. The Stromes, Neiderreitter,and Dal Colles did not cut it .. instead he made millionaire out of the Moulsons and PA Parenteaus of the world by making them shine . He is a star that makes those around him better . His point totals never showed the whole picture .. Peace

 

[Gary Nylund]

Legitimate shot at what ? What is you expectation for a successful season ? Win a round should be the goal . This is not a jab at you . Great top 6 . Middle of the road everywhere else . I remember when JT was a rookie he spent more time on his belly or butt on the ice than on his skates . At least it seemed that way. He hired a skating instructor and was so much better into year 2 and 3 . He was such a great player on the Islanders but never had that #2 to help . examples OV had Backstrom, Sid and Geno, Kane and JT, etc, …. Tavares was so talented that he had the isles picking in the 4-5 range instead of 1-2 where they belonged and he could have gotten help. The Stromes, Neiderreitter,and Dal Colles did not cut it .. instead he made millionaire out of the Moulsons and PA Parenteaus of the world by making them shine . He is a star that makes those around him better . His point totals never showed the whole picture .. Peace

The Leafs have a legitimate shot at winning the cup.

What defines a successful season is murky, obviously it's been a while for us. At least that's the way I see it, as I value playoff success much more than I do regular season success.

Winning the cup should be the goal. Thinking the goal should be winning a round is setting the bar way too low.

Too many people have the defeatist attitude that we can't win, this is wrong. They said the same thing about the Red Sox who's drought lasted 85 years but they also finally won. Yes we have failed miserably in the playoffs for a few years now but objectively we are still one of the best teams in the league and are among the favourites to win the cup.


Here's a link from where I got the odds you see below.

NHL Stanley Cup Odds 2023-24: Is this Carolina's Year?

Vegas did it. After waiting six long years, they finally won the franchise's first Stanley Cup. Fans of the Leafs, Canucks, and Sabres are all mad as hell — they've been waiting 50+ years to hoist the Cup. For 23-24, what team has the best odds to claim the hardest trophy to win: Lord Stanley's Cup?

www.oddsshark.com

 

[WillyC]

Legitimate shot at what ? What is you expectation for a successful season ? Win a round should be the goal . This is not a jab at you . Great top 6 . Middle of the road everywhere else . I remember when JT was a rookie he spent more time on his belly or butt on the ice than on his skates . At least it seemed that way. He hired a skating instructor and was so much better into year 2 and 3 . He was such a great player on the Islanders but never had that #2 to help . examples OV had Backstrom, Sid and Geno, Kane and JT, etc, …. Tavares was so talented that he had the isles picking in the 4-5 range instead of 1-2 where they belonged and he could have gotten help. The Stromes, Neiderreitter,and Dal Colles did not cut it .. instead he made millionaire out of the Moulsons and PA Parenteaus of the world by making them shine . He is a star that makes those around him better . His point totals never showed the whole picture .. Peace

Winning the Stanley Cup is what I expect… Vegas doesn’t have us ranked #2 on just random odds.

The Leafs are favourites because they are that good.

 

[Stephen]

Don't see how speed helps JT if it costs loss of bulk. Most of his points come from within 10 ft of the net. If he loses weight and strength in that part of his game it may hurt. Maybe Dubas should find digging wingers who get the puck to the front of the net instead of guys like Willie and Miky who do not compliment JT. Like A certain winger who played in Calgary and now in Florida.

I would prefer to see a leaner, meaner Tavares with a bit more explosiveness and quick twitch than this bulkier version of him. Tavares isn't committed to finishing every check so the extra weight isn't weaponized in a power game. Sure, he takes abuse in traffic but I think there's a balance between just being heavier and being able to play the 200 feet more effectively.

 

[TMLAM34]

If Tavares can come into camp a little slimmer and faster, there’s no doubt he can’t repeat the season he had when he first joined the Leafs.

 

[LeafEgo]

If Tavares can come into camp a little slimmer and faster, there’s no doubt he can’t repeat the season he had when he first joined the Leafs.

If they put Marner back on his line I think it's doable. There were some concerning signs of decline last year but I'm keeping the faith in JT.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I think the issue is their salaries force Nylander and JT on the 2nd line but they simply think the game differently and have different physical toolsets.

JT needs two Hymans on his line and he would score 40. Nylander needs speedy guys who can make plays at speed like Mikheyev and Kerfoot.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Winning the Stanley Cup is what I expect… Vegas doesn’t have us ranked #2 on just random odds.

The Leafs are favourites because they are that good.

Exactly! Some other sites have us lower than 2nd but what is consistent across all the sites is that COL is the clear favourite, then there are 4 teams in the next tier that includes us.

 

[Stephen]

I think the issue is their salaries force Nylander and JT on the 2nd line but they simply think the game differently and have different physical toolsets.

JT needs two Hymans on his line and he would score 40. Nylander needs speedy guys who can make plays at speed like Mikheyev and Kerfoot.

Yeah, they seem to be left over pieces of the Big 4 and ideally you have a 2A and 2B line that can be tailored to each of their strengths.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Yeah, they seem to be left over pieces of the Big 4 and ideally you have a 2A and 2B line that can be tailored to each of their strengths.

Yes. This is why I don't think a shutdown line makes sense with our cap. They simply won't play enough matched up with other lines to matter as that would take away minutes. I think the 4th line should be a shutdown line with physical players, nothing should happen with them out there most of the time aside from some forecheck and hits.

Then I think the lines should be made like you said. Something like

Nylander - Kerfoot - Kessel
Knies - Tavares - Nicolas Aube-Kubei

Even though the quality of linemates suck for JT, they fit his style. I struggled to find current players on our roster he would mesh with that were decent top 9 options, which I think is a theme with this team that needs to change but hasn't.

Either way, one would be a grinding line and the other a rush line. I think rolling the lines would be hard to manage because 2 lines would forecheck you super hard and 2 would be creating rush chances

 

[Niagara Bill]

Kessel???? Wtf is that. He is lazy, out of shape player who has no team in his game, no willingness to take coaching and a terrible haircut.

 

[ITM]

The Leafs have a legitimate shot at winning the cup.

What defines a successful season is murky, obviously it's been a while for us. At least that's the way I see it, as I value playoff success much more than I do regular season success.

Winning the cup should be the goal. Thinking the goal should be winning a round is setting the bar way too low.

Too many people have the defeatist attitude that we can't win, this is wrong. They said the same thing about the Red Sox who's drought lasted 85 years but they also finally won. Yes we have failed miserably in the playoffs for a few years now but objectively we are still one of the best teams in the league and are among the favourites to win the cup.


Here's a link from where I got the odds you see below.

NHL Stanley Cup Odds 2023-24: Is this Carolina's Year?

Vegas did it. After waiting six long years, they finally won the franchise's first Stanley Cup. Fans of the Leafs, Canucks, and Sabres are all mad as hell — they've been waiting 50+ years to hoist the Cup. For 23-24, what team has the best odds to claim the hardest trophy to win: Lord Stanley's Cup?

www.oddsshark.com

View attachment 573582

OT: I think Carolina is at least our equal and the Rangers and Washington aren't getting nearly enough credit after recent moves. Especially the Capitals. I think last season they caught their breath. The Capitals are going to be a real disruption this year.