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Value of: A Legitimate Starting Goalie to Edmonton, Who's Available?

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Fatass said:
Do the oilers need a better goalie than Skinner or is it they need to play (as a club) better defensively? The chances they give up are often high danger from turnovers. Maybe it’s not the goalie?
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I've been assured from the many "Gibson's stats are down so he's worthless" posts the last few years that a team being bad defensively is no excuse.
 
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Skinner's stats look bad, his advanced stats look worse, and the eye test makes him look even worse than the stats do! This is a guy totally in over his head whose athletic ability and poor habits are allowing him to get devoured by the competition. Pickard was a mid-career AHL regular when they brought him up so he's performing about as well as anyone should've expected, which is as an AHL goalie/third-string tweener.

Anyone acting like Skinner-Pickard isn't one of the worst duos in the entire NHL is either utterly delusional or arguing in bad faith. Even a cheap add like Quick, Talbot, Ned, and Reimer would all be obvious upgrades on what the team currently has. Obviously Binnington, Gibson, or Vejmelka would be much, much better.

The Edmonton sports media blames everything on one defenseman and seems totally afraid to question the goaltending. It honestly feels like state-run media for the team.
 
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MessierThanThou said:
Skinner's stats look bad, his advanced stats look worse, and the eye test makes him look even worse than the stats do! This is a guy totally in over his head whose athletic ability and poor habits are allowing him to get devoured by the competition. Pickard was a mid-career AHL regular when they brought him up so he's performing about as well as anyone should've expected, which is as an AHL goalie/third-string tweener.

Anyone acting like Skinner-Pickard isn't one of the worst duos in the entire NHL is either utterly delusional or arguing in bad faith. Even a cheap add like Quick, Talbot, Ned, and Reimer would all be obvious upgrades on what the team currently has. Obviously Binnington, Gibson, or Vejmelka would be much, much better.

The Edmonton sports media blames everything on one defenseman and seems totally afraid to question the goaltending. It's surreal.
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I'd love to have the luxury of keeping Stu as the backup and having a legitimate starter in front of him. I do think there is a good goalie in there, but he's still having consistency issues, and that just can't happen if we want to have a shot at the cup this year. Skinner could be a decent backup. Pickard plays well against bad teams, but is showing that the best role for him is as a #3 goalie, sitting in Bakersfield waiting for a callup because one of the Oilers big league goalies is injured.
 
ManofSteel55 said:
I'd love to have the luxury of keeping Stu as the backup and having a legitimate starter in front of him. I do think there is a good goalie in there, but he's still having consistency issues, and that just can't happen if we want to have a shot at the cup this year.
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There may have been a good goalie there in 2023, but he's clearly regressing, and I think Tristan Jarry imploding hard and getting waived is a sign that Dustin Schwartz's coaching is allowing these guys to be utterly devoured. Also, Skinner is looking slower than he ever has, so the decline isn't just in his technique, and I think it's reasonable to believe that he could be out of the NHL much sooner than later.

I'm getting Koskinen vibes here, and the dude couldn't even find a job on 31 other teams when his contract was up.
 
MessierThanThou said:
There may have been a good goalie there in 2023, but he's regressing and I think Tristan Jarry imploding hard and getting waived is a sign that Dustin Schwartz's coaching is allowing these guys to be utterly devoured. Skinner is looking slower than he ever has and I think it's reasonable to believe that he could be out of the NHL much sooner than later.
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Schwartz is an issue. I don't think he's ever been successful as a goalie coach. I think there is still a good goalie somewhere in Skinner, but we certainly aren't seeing it. He's on the verge of Dubnyking - falling apart completely here, with our only option left being to dump him for scraps, so he can go find his game again somewhere else.
 
ManofSteel55 said:
Schwartz is an issue. I don't think he's ever been successful as a goalie coach. I think there is still a good goalie somewhere in Skinner, but we certainly aren't seeing it. He's on the verge of Dubnyking - falling apart completely here, with our only option left being to dump him for scraps, so he can go find his game again somewhere else.
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He's not finding his game in the NHL. It's more likely he toils in Europe or the minors before an early retirement, much like Koskinen. He's not the same athlete he was before. Every facet of his game is plummeting. And keep in mind that even the most optimistic scouting reports never pegged this guy as a potential NHL starter. He overachieved, and I think he should be satisfied with living out his dream and playing in Game 7. It's all downhill from here.
 
MessierThanThou said:
He's not finding his game in the NHL. It's more likely he toils in Europe or the minors before an early retirement, much like Koskinen. He's not the same athlete he was before. Every facet of his game is plummeting.
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I think this is a simplistic view of the situation. Goalies are really up and down. For the most part, the fundamentals are there with Skinner. He could use some work on his lateral movement, but its the mistakes that he never used to make but is making now that are killing us this season. That can be fixed, with the right approach by the player, the right coaching, and a boost in confidence. That's why I'm saying that I think he will find his game somewhere else. Somewhere without Schwartz.
 
ManofSteel55 said:
I think this is a simplistic view of the situation. Goalies are really up and down. For the most part, the fundamentals are there with Skinner. He could use some work on his lateral movement, but its the mistakes that he never used to make but is making now that are killing us this season. That can be fixed, with the right approach by the player, the right coaching, and a boost in confidence. That's why I'm saying that I think he will find his game somewhere else. Somewhere without Schwartz.
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You could be right, but the signs just aren't there and the likelihood of a resurgence for Skinner is small. I disagree about the fundamentals being there. They simply aren't, or there wouldn't be so many muffins trickling past him. When Dubnyk was here he was putting up far better numbers than he had any right to achieve with the defense we had. He was vastly outperforming Khabibulin for one of his seasons, but the team still wanted lottery picks and gave Dubs limited minutes. Skinner has been given every opportunity to succeed and has floundered.
 
IMO Gibson or Binnington are the only logical choices for a team looking to win a SC. They have both been in the pressure cooker before whereas the others mentioned haven't. Both Gibson and Binnington have similar contracts. I'm not sure either is available and I'm not sure if they are that Edmonton has the type of assets that St Louis or Anaheim would be interested in. We'll know soon enough...
 
Lunatik said:
That's all well and good but I was basing this off the Markstrom trade, which sets the market to some degree. The return for Markstrom was a 1st and Kevin Bahl (who was a younger 3rd pairing defenseman), with 1.75-2m retention... without retention, I imagine the return would have been a 1st plus a small amount... which is why I suggested a 1st and Skinner, both Gibson and Binnington would have similar value to Markstrom. You might be able to squeeze an additional mid-round pick or equivalent prospect/young player, but I would be absolutely shocked if they could get more than that.
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SirPaste said:
What in the world? Neither of those guys would even be available especially for such a brutal return.
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Are you suggesting Skinner is off-limits???
 
archangel2 said:
Did I say Gibson? Nope. I am looking at the oiler board and you guys are offer junk for legit number one goalie. Unless you guys get serious? You guys are looking at another Taylor Hall type deal.

So please give Your HEAD a shake and realize that with what the oiler fans are willing to move? You guys wont be getting a legit number one goalie anytime soon.
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Lol Gibson apparently is trash the last 3 years or so but now all of a sudden he is A true #1 lolol make up your mind people
 
archangel2 said:
Judging by the Oiler board, the only players they are willing to move are Evander Kane, Jeff Skinner, Stew Skinner, Victor Arvedsson, Adam Henrique and Brett Kuluk. So pretty much the oilers are not willing to move anything of value. Unless they put one of Bouchard, Hyman, or or one of the duo up? They are not getting a legit number one goalie till McDavid and Leon are in the Hall of fame
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I dont think Hyman brings in a ton of value in this scenario. Three more years after this year @ 5.5, not terrible with a rising cap but looks to be on a downward trend.
 
Akey, Savoie and O'Reilly are not available in trade.

The Oilers management would likely view Skinner as still our future starter. I'm hoping they still want to get someone else for our playoff run as insurance. So, we are in the market for good, but not great goalie. Can we get a Talbot, Lyon, Quick or similar cheaper goalie? Once upon a time we traded a 1st for Roloson. Thats the type of trade to hope for. Don't pay up for a sure thing. Pay a bit less for a smart gamble
 
benfranklin said:
Id ship our Bouchard for a actual good goalie vs a bandaid. Saves you money later to not risk losing McDavid and I think a traffic cone could run that PP.
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But you're also shipping out the leader in EV TOI/GP.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea, but a C- upgrade in net + Bouchard is probably better than a B upgrade + a right side of Klingberg, Emberson, and Stecher.
 
DesertPenguin said:
Ned or 50% Jarry are available for, not a lot.
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Jarry and Skinner share a massive problem: Dustin Schwartz is their goalie coach. And nobody wants Jarry. His GSAx is even worse than Stu’s… Not a lot of goalies are worse than Skinner right now but Jarry definitely is.

Ned could work, as he’s playing behind the absolute worst defensive group this team has had since before Crosby and was playing well until very recently…
 
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tomd said:
IMO Gibson or Binnington are the only logical choices for a team looking to win a SC. They have both been in the pressure cooker before whereas the others mentioned haven't. Both Gibson and Binnington have similar contracts. I'm not sure either is available and I'm not sure if they are that Edmonton has the type of assets that St Louis or Anaheim would be interested in. We'll know soon enough...
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I will agree that they are the two options the team should most aggressively pursue.
 
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