A Case for A Junior Team Quebec

[ismelofhockey]

https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/op...ec-un-electrochoc-dont-le-hockey-a-besoin.php

The article is in French, so use Chrome's text translator if needed.

Basically the idea is that hockey in Quebec has been moribund over the last decade and needs a shot in the arm. International federations already allow other nations within nations (ex: Scotland, Wales...) to field their teams, and Latvia just beat Team Canada, showing that in a one game elimination system, anything is possible. No, the idea isn't that Team Quebec would win more than Canada. But imagine the rivalry...

There's much more to the article than that. It's worth the read before you dismiss the idea off-hand.
And for those whose knee-jerk reaction is to say Quebec isn't a nation: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/house-passes-motion-recognizing-quebecois-as-nation-1.574359

La Presse is the province's largest news media, and they lean heavily federalist (as opposed to sovereigntist). They wouldn't publish "nationalist gobbledigook".

 

[Mathieukferland]

Non

 

[David Suzuki]

would be kind of cool but it will never happen

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

N'importe quoi , rend la game plus accessible si tu veux voir plus de talent sortir du Québec. Ya personne qui joue au Hockey dans les villes , coûte trop chère pis hockey quebec c'est remplie de népotisme , Jvois pas pourquoi un nouveau parents qui a pas de racines deja encrée dans le hockey embarquerais sont enfant la dedans.

 

[Mathieukferland]

N'importe quoi , rend la game plus accessible si tu veux voir plus de talent sortir du Québec. Ya personne qui joue au Hockey dans les villes , coûte trop chère pis hockey quebec c'est remplie de népotisme , Jvois pas pourquoi un nouveau parents qui a pas de racines deja encrée dans le hockey embarquerais sont enfant la dedans.

I would go the opposite way, the numbers likely aren’t going to increase anyway, so pursue an academy system like they have out west where you essentially have 15 or so schools that are centralising and training players 20+ hours a week. It’s worked wonders out west (Bédard, McKenna, DuPont, Primerano, etc), and if you’re good enough (like McKenna), cost isn’t really an issue even if you’re from a modest background

 

[WarriorofTime]

Nationalist gobblygook. Quebec is a province of Canada, not its own nation. The England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland to United Kingdom comparison doesn't make sense for historical context [from a sporting perspective, England, Scotland and Wales had national teams long before 'FIFA' came to be]. They can advocate for various national competition with players representing different regions/provinces. Hockey Canada's U17 tournament thing used to be this before it got replaced with 'Canada Red', 'Canada Black' or whatever. Maybe advocate a push back for that.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Nationalist gobblygook. Quebec is a province of Canada, not its own nation. The England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland to United Kingdom comparison doesn't make sense for historical context [from a sporting perspective, England, Scotland and Wales had national teams long before 'FIFA' came to be]. They can advocate for various national competition with players representing different regions/provinces. Hockey Canada's U17 tournament thing used to be this before it got replaced with 'Canada Red', 'Canada Black' or whatever. Maybe advocate a push back for that.

The parliament of Canada recognized the Québecois as a nation within Canada, so you're not starting your argument on solid ground, and clearly you haven't read the article.

N'importe quoi , rend la game plus accessible si tu veux voir plus de talent sortir du Québec. Ya personne qui joue au Hockey dans les villes , coûte trop chère pis hockey quebec c'est remplie de népotisme , Jvois pas pourquoi un nouveau parents qui a pas de racines deja encrée dans le hockey embarquerais sont enfant la dedans.

As-tu lu l'article?

 

[ismelofhockey]

I would go the opposite way, the numbers likely aren’t going to increase anyway, so pursue an academy system like they have out west where you essentially have 15 or so schools that are centralising and training players 20+ hours a week. It’s worked wonders out west (Bédard, McKenna, DuPont, Primerano, etc), and if you’re good enough (like McKenna), cost isn’t really an issue even if you’re from a modest background

This isn't meant to be a panacea, nor is it at odds with reforming Hockey Quebec which, along with a lack of infrastructure in cities and high costs, are the main factors in hockey's decline in the province. But this would maximize the opportunities for Canadian players. Which hockey program wouldn't want two teams at the WJC?

 

[Jumptheshark]

https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/op...ec-un-electrochoc-dont-le-hockey-a-besoin.php

The article is in French, so use Chrome's text translator if needed.

Basically the idea is that hockey in Quebec has been moribund over the last decade and needs a shot in the arm. International federations already allow other nations within nations (ex: Scotland, Wales...) to field their teams, and Latvia just beat Team Canada, showing that in a one game elimination system, anything is possible. No, the idea isn't that Team Quebec would win more than Canada. But imagine the rivalry...

There's much more to the article than that. It's worth the read before you dismiss the idea off-hand.

You could have a junior team from from the prairies Ontario and BC. WE get this thread every couple of years for different reasons.

When the NHL goes back to the Olymics we will get one of these threads again.

 

[Jumptheshark]

https://www.lapresse.ca/dialogue/op...ec-un-electrochoc-dont-le-hockey-a-besoin.php

The article is in French, so use Chrome's text translator if needed.

Basically the idea is that hockey in Quebec has been moribund over the last decade and needs a shot in the arm. International federations already allow other nations within nations (ex: Scotland, Wales...) to field their teams, and Latvia just beat Team Canada, showing that in a one game elimination system, anything is possible. No, the idea isn't that Team Quebec would win more than Canada. But imagine the rivalry...

There's much more to the article than that. It's worth the read before you dismiss the idea off-hand.

Quebec is not a nation.

Also, you could make a better case for Team Ontario than any other PROVINCE in Canada.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Quebec is not a nation.

Also, you could make a better case for Team Ontario than any other PROVINCE in Canada.

Aren't you Canadian? How do you not know this? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/house-passes-motion-recognizing-quebecois-as-nation-1.574359

So no, you couldn't make a better case for Ontario. Although the point of the article is that if you could, you should have a Team Ontario, a Team BC, a Team Mohawk...etc.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Aren't you Canadian? How do you not know this? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/house-passes-motion-recognizing-quebecois-as-nation-1.574359

So no, you couldn't make a better case for Ontario. Although the point of the article is that if you could, you should have a Team Ontario, a Team BC, a Team Mohawk...etc.

Scotland and Wales are recognised as nation. One key word is FORMING a nation in what happened happened and actual final wording in interesting. You should look it up.

No.country recognizer Quebec as a nation

 

[Czechboy]

I think the Olympics will see more and more Quebecers but not in hockey. Soccer and tennis! The Q has fallen far off the map and it is because hockey is so damn expensive. Those acadamies (that are highly successful) don't work in Quebec. They work in Vancouver or Toronto. Canada is great at developing rich kids to play hockey internationally but this certainly isn't a sport for everyone in Canada. I'd swear if you didn't know a thing about Canada and just watched hockey you'd be convincied it is a nation with no immigration and just rich white kids.lol

 

[WarriorofTime]

Aren't you Canadian? How do you not know this? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/house-passes-motion-recognizing-quebecois-as-nation-1.574359

So no, you couldn't make a better case for Ontario. Although the point of the article is that if you could, you should have a Team Ontario, a Team BC, a Team Mohawk...etc.

From the own article you posted

"The prime minister has said he is using the word nation in a "cultural-sociological" rather than in a legal sense."

It was a ceremonial little thing they did, it's not worth the weight of the paper it was printed on. Quebec has no legal status as a "Nation" in any meaningful way domestically or internationally. There is no "Team Quebec" in any international sporting competition.

 

[Lumber]

Don't know about Quebec but Danielle Smith will have a team in Alberta heading to the Olympics in 2026. Yes sir Team Alberta Oligarchs.

 

[ismelofhockey]

From the own article you posted

"The prime minister has said he is using the word nation in a "cultural-sociological" rather than in a legal sense."

It was a ceremonial little thing they did, it's not worth the weight of the paper it was printed on. Quebec has no legal status as a "Nation" in any meaningful way domestically or internationally. There is no "Team Quebec" in any international sporting competition.

Ceremonial or not, Canada legally recognized Quebec as a nation within Canada regardless of how Harper sold it afterwards to voters. A bill has legal standing, and the bill does not say "in cultural-sociological rather than legal sense".
From there, Canada could decide to field a Team Quebec. You sound as though Team Quebec would "break away" from Team Canada. This isn't about Quebec separatism. This is Canada choosing to maximize its development opportunities by fielding two teams instead of one. I ask again, which developmental program would refuse the opportunity to field two teams instead of one?

Scotland and Wales are recognised as nation. One key word is FORMING a nation in what happened happened and actual final wording in interesting. You should look it up.

No.country recognizer Quebec as a nation

Canada recognizes Quebec as a nation. That's all it takes.

 

[ismelofhockey]

I think the Olympics will see more and more Quebecers but not in hockey. Soccer and tennis! The Q has fallen far off the map and it is because hockey is so damn expensive. Those acadamies (that are highly successful) don't work in Quebec. They work in Vancouver or Toronto. Canada is great at developing rich kids to play hockey internationally but this certainly isn't a sport for everyone in Canada. I'd swear if you didn't know a thing about Canada and just watched hockey you'd be convincied it is a nation with no immigration and just rich white kids.lol

Other sports have definitely been gaining on hockey. But the idea of a Team Quebec is to draw more attention to sports and so push more kids towards becoming athletes. Nothing would prevent us from fielding a Team Quebec in soccer or tennis, though the soccer team might be too severely lacking in talent to have the hoped for effect on kids.
If Quebec ever beats Canada in a game many young Québecois will want to emulate that game's MVP like they used to pretend being Patrick Roy or Petr Stastny. Of course, you'd still have to fix the other issues at play like affordability and infrastructure...etc.

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Splitting the team into two after having one of the worst tournaments in the nations history is certainly a take...

 

[ismelofhockey]

Splitting the team into two after having one of the worst tournaments in the nations history is certainly a take...

Ethan Gauthier and Mathieu Cataford weren't foundational pieces for the team. A very strong argument could be made that they would have been better off had they called on Iginla and Lindstrom instead. Splitting the team into two means two balls in the lottery. And a one game elimination format is little more than a lottery.

 

[ismelofhockey]

Perhaps it would be best for the sake of discussion to put aside the more contentious Team Quebec for now, and look at a Team First Nations and Inuit. Obviously it gets more complex because those are multiple nations, but overlooking this hurdle, would anyone be against the idea of a Team First Nations and Inuit? Can you imagine what it would mean for that team to beat Team Canada or even win a single medal? Wouldn't Canada gain by allowing, at the developmental stage, a Team Indigenous Peoples? In 2021, 5% of Canada's population identified as indigenous, which is about the same population as Latvia. It would be amazing.

 

[Essenege]

Nationalist gobblygook. Quebec is a province of Canada, not its own nation. The England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland to United Kingdom comparison doesn't make sense for historical context [from a sporting perspective, England, Scotland and Wales had national teams long before 'FIFA' came to be]. They can advocate for various national competition with players representing different regions/provinces. Hockey Canada's U17 tournament thing used to be this before it got replaced with 'Canada Red', 'Canada Black' or whatever. Maybe advocate a push back for that.

Quebec is not a country but it’s a nation as recognized by Canada’s parliament. Province and nation are not contradiction.

« a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabitinga particular country or territory. »

I always thought the absolute blockade coming from English Canadians to the expression of Québécois’ culture and nation is sad and pathetic. Small dick energy.

Real confident nations like the English aren’t scare of having different national identities like the Scots inside their borders.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that English Canada especially Ontario and BC basically destroyed their common nation & culture with exaggerated immigration and are now a post nationalist state, and subconsciously they are jealous and frustrated that we still have a mostly intact and recognizable culture that was nicely modified but not buried by reasonable immigration over the years.

 

[Essenege]

From the own article you posted

"The prime minister has said he is using the word nation in a "cultural-sociological" rather than in a legal sense."

It was a ceremonial little thing they did, it's not worth the weight of the paper it was printed on. Quebec has no legal status as a "Nation" in any meaningful way domestically or internationally. There is no "Team Quebec" in any international sporting competition.

If your a Canadian outside of Quebec you don’t understand what a real nation is because you don’t have one. I’m sad for you actually, post nationalist states are sad as f***.

« a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabitinga particular country or territory. »

With like 50% of its population either born outside of Canada or 2nd generation immigrant with English as a second language, Ontario and BC have no common descent, language and or culture.

 

[Mathieukferland]

If your a Canadian outside of Quebec you don’t understand what a real nation is because you don’t have one. I’m sad for you actually, post nationalist states are sad as f***.

« a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabitinga particular country or territory. »

With like 50% of its population either born outside of Canada or 2nd generation immigrant with English as a second language, Ontario and BC have no common descent, language and or culture.

Keep it on hockey svp

 

[ismelofhockey]

If your a Canadian outside of Quebec you don’t understand what a real nation is because you don’t have one. I’m sad for you actually, post nationalist states are sad as f***.

« a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabitinga particular country or territory. »

With like 50% of its population either born outside of Canada or 2nd generation immigrant with English as a second language, Ontario and BC have no common descent, language and or culture.

Oversimplification. Trudeau may have said that Canada has no culture of its own, but he's an idiot and he's dead wrong. Support for immigration in the ROC has fallen below 50% (not so in Quebec) for the first time in history precisely because Canada has a culture, and that culture's values can sometimes be at odds with the cultures of immigrants. And Trudeau may have poorly managed immigration during his terms, but that does not mean immigration can't be handled properly.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Threads about this issue are typically getting closed down, but I hope the mods can keep this one open. This is a real debate that's ongoing in Quebec and it may actually happen.

The Parti Québécois has been leading all the polls since one year, and have made their intentions clear about creating distinct sport federations so Quebec can send their own athletes to the Olympics and to hockey championship, among other things.

I also think this is the spark that junior hockey needs in Quebec. Not saying it would change everything overnight, but it would without a doubt create a buzz, renew interest for junior hockey and convince more kids to become hockey players. I think it would also provide the opportunity for structural changes, by creating new federations on modern basis.