Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[Junohockeyfan]

I get the feeling Montreal fans are either looking for something that doesn't exist or not willing to pay for something that does exist. Same as it ever was.

Habs fans are willing to give up 2 x 1st + Hage + Mailloux ++ to get something that exists and fits the makeup of the team in terms of age.

I can't think of many teams that can offer anything like what Montreal can. Those are grade A assets. That said, i don't think there is anything available that would be worth that type of package. The issue is what minimal talent is available at 2C this offseason.

 

[General Fanager]

Habs fans are willing to give up 2 x 1st + Hage + Mailloux ++ to get something that exists and fits the makeup of the team in terms of age.

I can't think of many teams that can offer anything like what Montreal can. Those are grade A assets. That said, i don't think there is anything available that would be worth that type of package. The issue is what minimal talent is available at 2C this offseason.

imo there are plenty of options and several that we don't even know might be available. There always are.

The real question is what those teams would want. If they want futures then you are right not many teams can match what The Habs could offer. If they want more of a 'hockey trade" then I am not so sure.

 

[General Fanager]

UFA and MTL don't rime very well. It's the reason fans are asking for trade ideas.

true, but they have the room to overpay a bit and having such a young team on the upswing might attract a good UFA. I mean maybe a guy looks at the lineup and sees a kid like Demidov wants to play with him. Same would go with a vet RHD, playing with Hutson or Guhle might be attractive....

 

[Baksfamous112]

I get the feeling Montreal fans are either looking for something that doesn't exist or not willing to pay for something that does exist. Same as it ever was.

Well, when you ask for a 2C but only get offered 3C/4C for a premium you usually pass on those.

The few 2C that were offered in this thread were either on the wrong side of 30 or the ask was the equivalent of 4x first round pick which is insane.

 

[General Fanager]

Well, when you ask for a 2C but only get offered 3C/4C for a premium you usually pass on those.

The few 2C that were offered in this thread were either on the wrong side of 30 or the ask was the equivalent of 4x first round pick which is insane.

Over 30 is fine imo. As long as his deal is for 3-4 years.

 

[glenbuis2]

i really believe the priority is a solid right hand d to acquire whether it’s through trade or free agency . solidifying the back end may prevent a step back and missing the playoffs next year . take a year to give dach and newhook to give their best , another year to see what hage has and go hard after that 2c at the deadline or in 12 months time . it may be a bit much to expect being a cup contender in 12 months time and being patient for this 12 month period will greatly benefit our long term success .

 

[Baksfamous112]

Over 30 is fine imo. As long as his deal is for 3-4 years.

I don’t mind too much if the 2C is over 30 but don’t come here asking for 2x first + Hage + if all you have to offer is a declining asset. That was my point

 

[ole ole]

I don’t mind too much if the 2C is over 30 but don’t come here asking for 2x first + Hage + if all you have to offer is a declining asset. That was my point

I wouldn't give 1 of those assets for a 30 + player.

 

[ole ole]

Habs fans are willing to give up 2 x 1st + Hage + Mailloux ++ to get something that exists and fits the makeup of the team in terms of age.

I can't think of many teams that can offer anything like what Montreal can. Those are grade A assets. That said, i don't think there is anything available that would be worth that type of package. The issue is what minimal talent is available at 2C this offseason.

That's a huge offer and i don't care who the player is. No over 30 player is fetching that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Horvat is more of a finisher . He needs someone to drive the play . Before the isles traded for him I thought he was more well rounded . He is still very good for us . The Nucks traded him at the exact right time he was at his statistical peak . If you have a puck handling wing to drive play at set him up for a one timer he would be a nice fit .

Horvat would be the 2C behind Suzuki and paired up with... Demidov and Newhook (or Dach). Demidov would be the puck driver for the most part and Horvat provides the center responsibility and adds a bit of grit and faceoff wins.

I think Horvat fits the Habs more than Barzal and I'm a big fan of Barzal. Just think the Habs have enough skating/skill and we need to mix in more Horvat types.

What would the trade look like? Not sure but our offer would be picks and prospects. Our two best offers is the 16th and 17th pick in this next draft and then we can add a prospect. Won't be Hage. No way the Habs are trading Hage before he turns pro and we know how really good/bad he is. We made that mistake with Sergachev.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ultimately the 2C will involve an overpayment in terms of quality (not quantity) unless you want a player who’s more of an unproven commodity or someone towards the end of their career age wise that can be a short term stop gap. Ultimately a guy like Brock Nelson would fit the role but I highly doubt he wants to play in MTL and he turned down a 3 year from Lou which forced the trade. He wants more term and at his age that’s a tough ask.
The younger (25-28) quality 2C price will be more then Montreal will ideally want to pay and in some cases way too high. Teams just don’t part with players like that outside of the trade deadline or for a substantial upgrade in both the short and long term.

Back to the Colorado and Carolina trade. It was Rantanen and a low end prospect for Necas, Drury, 2nd and a 4th. That’s like Montreal giving up Caufield, Owen Beck and picks for Rantanen (with contract uncertainty). Would they do something like that? I’m not really sure.

I didn’t bring up Reinbacher because he wasn’t on the current roster. I went based on who was on the ice for the playoffs. Ultimately he steps in next year and replaces someone in the current lineup.

Habs are looking to make a deal with a team that wants a rebuild and wants more future picks. No doubt our 16th and 17th pick are on the table and also prospects like Mailloux, Beck, Kapanen, Roy (those types). Doubt we put either of Hage or Reinbacher on the trade table but that would depend on who is coming back.
If there is no deal with our futures offer, the Habs stay put and keep drafting while we monitor the growth from our youth. We are interested in a center upgrade but not desperate. Like I said, it only makes sense that we engage with a team looking for a rebuild and wants to unload salary and add picks.

Not sure your Caufield add in your narrative above is accurate when you tried to compare it to the Avs/Canes trades. Those players involved were soon to be UFA while Caufield is locked up on a value contract for his prime. Not the same so you will have to find a better example than that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Vancouver traded 2C Horvat and now 2.5 years later they are desperately looking for a...2C. Good 2C's are really rare and expensive. If you don't like the price then lower your 2C target. Others are available for a cheaper price.

You are not wrong but what are you comments about a declining Horvat in his 30+ years? He's already has shown some little signs of decline.

This is all about the direction the Islanders want to take and how fast they want to take it. Sometimes, you wait it out and you get the return you want and in other times, you wait it out, and the players fades even more and the trade value goes down. Difficult to know one way or another.

All the Habs can do is offer our futures based trade. If it don't work, it's OK. We are not in a position where we are desperate to make a trade. Fans might be but our management is not.

I'd like fans to find past trades where someone at age 30 was traded (like Horvat... 60 pts center) and signed for 6 years. Did anybody post a past trade we can compare to yet? Something that fits and is not a big reach? I think this is where us fans can get down to talking real value.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't want any player 30 and over.

Those will be the realistic options (30+ centers). If you are searching for a center near Suzuki's age, be prepared to trade a proven piece you rather not trade.

You might as well put the focus to UFA's or just staying put and see how Hage, Beck, Kapanen develop even more next year.

 

[miscs75]

Habs are looking to make a deal with a team that wants a rebuild and wants more future picks. No doubt our 16th and 17th pick are on the table and also prospects like Mailloux, Beck, Kapanen, Roy (those types). Doubt we put either of Hage or Reinbacher on the trade table but that would depend on who is coming back.
If there is no deal with our futures offer, the Habs stay put and keep drafting while we monitor the growth from our youth. We are interested in a center upgrade but not desperate. Like I said, it only makes sense that we engage with a team looking for a rebuild and wants to unload salary and add picks.

Not sure your Caufield add in your narrative above is accurate when you tried to compare it to the Avs/Canes trades. Those players involved were soon to be UFA while Caufield is locked up on a value contract for his prime. Not the same so you will have to find a better example than that.

The problem comes down to wanting essentially a rare trading card and only offering up common and uncommon cards in return. Those pieces could be good down the line but they’re not moving the needle one bit currently. Teams if they move out a veteran like that for youth are looking for someone to step in and make some form of an impact to fill the void of the major piece lost.
Those pieces you’re offering for Barzal/Horvat aren’t going to replace the hole left by losing either one. Even a rebuilding team needs to put NHL talent on the ice. The days of having veterans who should have retired and minor leaguers to fill a roster are long gone.

The ask about the Rantanen trade was mainly about player quality, not contract but somehow there has to be an obsession about current contract with the players. Also, Stankoven has another year on his ELC which gives Carolina an additional buffer that Caufield doesn’t provide.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The problem comes down to wanting essentially a rare trading card and only offering up common and uncommon cards in return. Those pieces could be good down the line but they’re not moving the needle one bit currently. Teams if they move out a veteran like that for youth are looking for someone to step in and make some form of an impact to fill the void of the major piece lost.
Those pieces you’re offering for Barzal/Horvat aren’t going to replace the hole left by losing either one. Even a rebuilding team needs to put NHL talent on the ice. The days of having veterans who should have retired and minor leaguers to fill a roster are long gone.

The ask about the Rantanen trade was mainly about player quality, not contract but somehow there has to be an obsession about current contract with the players. Also, Stankoven has another year on his ELC which gives Carolina an additional buffer that Caufield doesn’t provide.

We will see how the Islanders manage their direction with their new GM. All the Habs can do is make a futures offer and see where it goes. We are not offended if the answer is no.

Trading for 30+ contracts doesn't usually work out well when you give the piece you are talking about. If the player is of any impact and already in the NHL, teams just don't trade them because they are already on a good track. Someone developing and showing promise in NHL games are usually worth more than a 30+ declining assets. However, someone like Hage or Reinbacher fits because they are not showing promise in NHL games yet. I just don't see the Habs putting those pieces on the table. Pieces like Beck, Mailloux, Kapanen, Roy would probably be on the table and all of them are NHL ready. I see some fans laughing at these assets and calling them spare parts and that's just not accurate. They are just not grade A assets. More like B or B+ trending very well. Some of you really don't know their development track. Someone like Mesar is a spart part or nothing special. There is a big difference

I can't recall any past trade off the top of my head but this is what us fans should be searching for (to justify our trade prices). A 30+ center signed for 6 years ish and around the 60 pts production. Do you recall a past trade like this?

It's usually easier to trade for a 30+ asset when the term left is very short. There are all kinds of past examples of those types of trades.