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Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

samsagat said:
"Matheson isn’t even close in terms of player to Necas."

Of course, it's obvious!

"Matheson for Mike Reilly (with a 1 year extension) would be an even swap."

Nope, Matheson might not be perfect, but he's a really good skater and a really good athlete with incredible stamina

His role has changed but defensively, just because of his reach and fast skating, he's a valuable defenseman, a lot more valuable than Mike Reilly.
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Congrats on trying to pump his tires. Dump him on a team who needs him and not one who has a quality 2C available. Every team has that smooth skating defenseman with speed and most of them are better defensively not getting exposed by guys like Anthony Beauvillier and Andrew Mangipane.
 
miscs75 said:
So essentially you need a true top 4 D to pair him with to hide him and cover for his faults. MTL doesn’t have that guy to put him with at the moment.
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No, I'm describing an ideal situation where a team is getting a peak value out of him.

Despite the complaining from Habs fans, he's been a very effective top-4 defenceman for MTL even without a solid partner and playing too many minutes. He's not a 1D capable of filling the top defensive role on his team. He is capable of running a PP and can be expected to eat 5v5 minutes at a high level. Most playoff teams can play him appropriate minutes and not expect him to be their best defensive defenceman.
 
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Draft said:
No, I'm describing an ideal situation where a team is getting a peak value out of him.

Despite the complaining from Habs fans, he's been a very effective top-4 defenceman for MTL even without a solid partner and playing too many minutes. He's not a 1D capable of filling the top defensive role on his team. He is capable of running a PP and can be expected to eat 5v5 minutes at a high level. Most playoff teams can play him appropriate minutes and not expect him to be their best defensive defenceman.
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You put him with a true top 4 defenseman who’s good on the defensive side of the puck and it takes a lot of that responsibility away from him. You can find guys like that pretty easily since they don’t produce too much offensively. You need a 30 year old David Savard from his Columbus days or Adam Pelech from 4 seasons ago.
 
miscs75 said:
You put him with a true top 4 defenseman who’s good on the defensive side of the puck and it takes a lot of that responsibility away from him. You can find guys like that pretty easily since they don’t produce too much offensively. You need a 30 year old David Savard from his Columbus days or Adam Pelech from 4 seasons ago.
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It's definitely an option, it's just unlikely it happens in MTL. While I think Matheson could fill some holes and be deployed in a more favourable role with the Islanders, I can also see why he wouldn't be a priority to acquire. Same goes for Horvat, there are things about his profile that might make the Habs want to cough up a lot, but his age and contract are a very awkward fit for a team technically still rebuilding. There just might not be a fit here.
 
The thing about getting KK is, he isn’t free. In a vaccine sure KK is an upgrade over Evans, Newhook, etc. But if the Habs are giving assets up I’d rather give more and get better value
 
Draft said:
It's definitely an option, it's just unlikely it happens in MTL. While I think Matheson could fill some holes and be deployed in a more favourable role with the Islanders, I can also see why he wouldn't be a priority to acquire. Same goes for Horvat, there are things about his profile that might make the Habs want to cough up a lot, but his age and contract are a very awkward fit for a team technically still rebuilding. There just might not be a fit here.
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It’s really not a fit without Montreal overpaying and they’re not looking to do that. To offer up a lower package then what the Isles acquired him for would just be utterly stupid and Matheson himself wouldn’t do anything except eat up cap space and a roster spot that can be much better utilized. If the Isles got rid of all 3 of Pelech/Pulock/Mayfield and needed a 1 year stopgap filler to eat up a veteran spot then it might work but not a chance with the Isles current cap situation and players to sign this year. I’d rather give his AAV to Simon Holmstrom personally.
 
miscs75 said:
The issue comes down to how serious Montreal is to compete moving forward. The core showed they can play with the big boys even if it was a 4-1 series lost. Ideally you have to think the playoff and ultimately cup window is now moving forward. To get that 2C they truly want, it will hurt in the terms of future and might take a piece of the roster not named Suzuki/Caufield/Demidov/Hutson/Guhle. Even if they were the youngest team in the playoffs by a bit, they do need to make changes to upgrade and it really won’t come by offering up pieces like Laine/Matheson/Mesar.
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No rational Habs fan thinks we’re going to upgrade with these pieces. But we should be able to with some combination of:

•The two 1st round picks in the upcoming draft (16 & 17)
•Mailloux
•Beck
•Dobes
•Primeau
•Roy

There’s more than enough value there to get a stopgap 2C twice over. We may not even need to use these to get one; I think the better option is to sign Duchene or someone else to a 2 year deal and see if one of Kapanen or Hage can take over the 2C spot by the end of that deal. I firmly believe both have at least 2C upside.
 
Garbageyuk said:
No rational Habs fan thinks we’re going to upgrade with these pieces. But we should be able to with some combination of:

•The two 1st round picks in the upcoming draft (16 & 17)
•Mailloux
•Beck
•Dobes
•Primeau
•Roy

There’s more than enough value there to get a stopgap 2C twice over. We may not even need to use these to get one; I think the better option is to sign Duchene or someone else to a 2 year deal and see if one of Kapanen or Hage can take over the 2C spot by the end of that deal. I firmly believe both have at least 2C upside.
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Even with including them the price will increase based on those veterans value/cap hit. The biggest thing is finding a stopgap 2C with 1-3 years left on a team. No idea who even has that but I know it’s not Horvat or Barzal. With a UFA, you might have to overpay AAV wise to keep years down. Similarly to how Carolina signed Orlov.
 
miscs75 said:
Even with including them the price will increase based on those veterans value/cap hit. The biggest thing is finding a stopgap 2C with 1-3 years left on a team. No idea who even has that but I know it’s not Horvat or Barzal. With a UFA, you might have to overpay AAV wise to keep years down. Similarly to how Carolina signed Orlov.
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Agreed. I’d have no problem with Duchene on a 2 year deal @ $7-8M AAV. Nobody is going to be giving Duchene term anyway.

If Duchene doesn’t want to sign in MTL, then I think Zacha would be a good target - he’s not an ideal 2C, but he’d be fine until the end of his contract (26-27), and his cap hit is extremely reasonable.

William Karlsson could be another target. VGK may want to move on from him like they have with other players (Marchessault). He’s also on a nice cap hit and has 2 years left.

Both these guys are good defensively, can win faceoffs, and have 2 years left on reasonable deals. Any offense they provide would be of secondary concern.
 
miscs75 said:
Personally I don’t even want Reinbacher as an Isles fan, I want Hage if we go top prospect route. I’m pretty sure Reinbacher has been out with quite a few injuries the past few seasons. If Barzal is damaged goods to them by that then Reinbacher is a whole different level of damaged goods.
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If you want Hage then its going to be for Horvat and not Barzal. Hage+flames 1st+2nd is what I am thinking. Barzal is good but I want the grittier center.
 
MTL shouldn’t jump the gun; hold on to their draft picks, keep the cupboard well stocked, and then use that cupboard when the right trade comes up in 2-3 years
 
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