Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[Habs Halifax]

And yet no one who isn't a Montreal fan agrees with you...hmmmm.

I don't care about the popular bandwagon narrative. The fact that you think this resolves the debate shows me where your head is at.

Lets get it back on track. Show me a past trade example to justify your angle? A career 60 pts center from age 30-36. Lets see some examples because this is why I am here. I'm not hear to hear your belittle narratives with weak context.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's crazy talk, Barzal would be incredible in the Habs up tempo system. He scored 80 points last year playing under Patrick Roy / Lane Lambert.

A healthy Barzal would likely be the Habs leading scorer most seasons. He and Demidov would be an extremely dangerous duo.

Barzal fits our style of play but he does not fit our need. We need a physical center who is good on faceoffs and can win puck battles in the playoffs when the going gets rough.

Love Barzal but Horvat fits the Habs needs more.

 

[miscs75]

In his prime? Who are you guys trying to fool?

Horvat is past his prime? Good to know you truly watch the Islanders play or even saw what went on this year with them. He’s very much still a very good 2C who was playing either no true high end skill along side him most of the season. Toss in the Lou-Roy battle when it came to systems doesn’t help either. Roy had 2 of Lou’s coaches on the bench who I’m sure were told to listen to him instead of Roy which led to the Isles being a mess on the Isles.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Horvat is past his prime? Good to know you truly watch the Islanders play or even saw what went on this year with them. He’s very much still a very good 2C who was playing either no true high end skill along side him most of the season. Toss in the Lou-Roy battle when it came to systems doesn’t help either. Roy had 2 of Lou’s coaches on the bench who I’m sure were told to listen to him instead of Roy which led to the Isles being a mess on the Isles.

He's not in his prime. He's at the back end of it heading into modest decline years. I'm not trying to devalue him... I do feel my statement is fair. He's a career 57 pts center with ages 30-36 left on his contract. Good at faceoffs and is on the gritty side. His performance is more likely to decrease than increase at the age of 30+. Still probably has 3 very solid years left and then it's difficult to know after that.

Like I said... if it's a 1/1 the Islanders are after, I pass. If they are looking for a young NHL piece and futures, Habs can engage. Dach and two 1sts are not a bad offer. It might be an offer that gets declined but it's far from being a bad offer. Mid 1st round picks are a solid change at adding a grade A prospect. Calling that spare parts is disingineous (not saying you are but others are).

For all I know, Horvat declines to go to Montreal with his NTC.

 

[Grinner]

A 57 pts career center in his prime from ages 30-36? Who are you guys trying to fool?

Horvat does have some value and teams will knock on the door but there is no desperation here where you get bidding wars.

Do you bother to read threads here that aren't Habs related? If so, then you'd know how many fans of different teams are clamoring for a 2C

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Barzal fits our style of play but he does not fit our need. We need a physical center who is good on faceoffs and can win puck battles in the playoffs when the going gets rough.

Love Barzal but Horvat fits the Habs needs more.

Barzal has been a dominant playoff player. If you had both he and Suzuki, I think you just use Suzuki as your matchup center, then the Barzal line for OZ deployments to drive the offense.

Gallagher - Barzal - Demidov
Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield

You could eventually move a guy like Beck to play alongside Barzal to help with faceoffs as well.

 

[bert]

You gotta think that they do everything in their power to get Sid. They have the assets and I think there are only two teams he would go to and Colorado just went all in and doesnt have the pieces to get him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Barzal has been a dominant playoff player. If you had both he and Suzuki, I think you just use Suzuki as your matchup center, then the Barzal line for OZ deployments to drive the offense.

Gallagher - Barzal - Demidov
Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield

You could eventually move a guy like Beck to play alongside Barzal to help with faceoffs as well.

Gallagher does not belong in a top 6. Decent bottom 6 player at this stage but there is no way he can keep up with the pace of play in a top 6 role at this stage. If anything, Newhook is in the top 6 before Gallagher bud. I did like how Newhook played in this playoffs with the eye test but we have a big 2C hole and that is affecting Newhook and others.

Like I said, I love Barzal's skill and skating but the Habs have a lot of skill/skating. We need warriors. I'm not building my team to be the next Leafs.

Habs need a 200' center and someone good in many areas. Barzal is more of a dynamic winger to me but is a bit on the soft side. Barzal belongs on a team that has more grit and I think that's where you get the best results.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Habs need a 200' center and someone good in many areas.

Is that not Suzuki?

Barzal is more of a dynamic winger to me but is a bit on the soft side. Barzal belongs on a team that has more grit and I think that's where you get the best results.

Barzal should be a center. Guys who can transport the puck through the neutral zone like him should always be played at center.

If you're worried about faceoffs, find him a winger who is better on the dot. Faceoffs are astronomically less important than actually being able to play the position.

 

[miscs75]

He's not in his prime. He's at the back end of it heading into modest decline years. I'm not trying to devalue him... I do feel my statement is fair. He's a career 57 pts center with ages 30-36 left on his contract. Good at faceoffs and is on the gritty side. His performance is more likely to decrease than increase at the age of 30+. Still probably has 3 very solid years left and then it's difficult to know after that.

Like I said... if it's a 1/1 the Islanders are after, I pass. If they are looking for a young NHL piece and futures, Habs can engage. Dach and two 1sts are not a bad offer. It might be an offer that gets declined but it's far from being a bad offer. Mid 1st round picks are a solid change at adding a grade A prospect. Calling that spare parts is disingineous (not saying you are but others are).

For all I know, Horvat declines to go to Montreal with his NTC.

So because he hit 30 he’s automatically declining? Good to know you once again haven’t consistently watched the Islanders. Watch the team play in a proper system instead of a discombobulated mess and then go from there. 3 season before dropping off isn’t even close to being past his prime if you want to go there.
It’s not so much the 1/1 trade or futures trade. The trade just has to make sense for the Islanders and make them a better team. Trading him for a cap dump/damaged goods beyond repairable player, mid 1st round pick in a weak draft and a middle 6 (more likely 3rd liner) isn’t a good offer for the Islanders.
From your talk, everyone with skill the Isles have needs to be traded for futures who we know 3/4 won’t develop and they need to become a dumping grounds for other teams garbage with no end in sight.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That's crazy talk, Barzal would be incredible in the Habs up tempo system. He scored 80 points last year playing under Patrick Roy / Lane Lambert.

A healthy Barzal would likely be the Habs leading scorer most seasons. He and Demidov would be an extremely dangerous duo.

I was surprised that Habs fans were turning up their noses at Zacha for nothing of importance in the other thread, until I get here and see Habs fans turning up their noses at Mathew frickin Barzal for nothing of importance. Holy smokes.

 

[tomd]

I was surprised that Habs fans were turning up their noses at Zacha for nothing of importance in the other thread, until I get here and see Habs fans turning up their noses at Mathew frickin Barzal for nothing of importance. Holy smokes.

It's the same ones in both cases!

 

[miscs75]

I was surprised that Habs fans were turning up their noses at Zacha for nothing of importance in the other thread, until I get here and see Habs fans turning up their noses at Mathew frickin Barzal for nothing of importance. Holy smokes.

The nothing of importance is fAbUlOuS though.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The nothing of importance is fAbUlOuS though.

If Montreal could pull Barzal for some combination of middling roster pieces, non-Reinbacher prospects, and picks, they should do it and pray to every god there is for thanks for their good fortune.

 

[miscs75]

If Montreal could pull Barzal for some combination of middling roster pieces, non-Reinbacher prospects, and picks, they should do it and pray to every god there is for thanks for their good fortune.

Personally I don’t even want Reinbacher as an Isles fan, I want Hage if we go top prospect route. I’m pretty sure Reinbacher has been out with quite a few injuries the past few seasons. If Barzal is damaged goods to them by that then Reinbacher is a whole different level of damaged goods.

 

[Snowman]

It's the same ones in both cases!

It's the same ones in ALL Montreal trade threads.

 

[SamHabsFan]

Is that not Suzuki?

Barzal should be a center. Guys who can transport the puck through the neutral zone like him should always be played at center.

If you're worried about faceoffs, find him a winger who is better on the dot. Faceoffs are astronomically less important than actually being able to play the position.

Yeah, Barzal is more valuable and a better player than Horvat I agree! And I am not opposed to play Suzuki as the matchup center, but literally everyone of our centers and prospects are right handed :

Suzuki
Dach
Evans
Beck
Kapanen
Hage

If we were to pay the big price in 1sts and prospects, I'd be more comfortable if the guy was a LHS. with that being said, with rarity and huge demand, I get that the perfect trade probably wont happen, so if you are able to get Barzal you do it and think about the handedness later..

All of these trades with the Islanders are based on them rebuilding, which we dont know yet..so I prefer not consider trade values at this point.

 

[ole ole]

I don't care about the popular bandwagon narrative. The fact that you think this resolves the debate shows me where your head is at.

Lets get it back on track. Show me a past trade example to justify your angle? A career 60 pts center from age 30-36. Lets see some examples because this is why I am here. I'm not hear to hear your belittle narratives with weak context.

I don't want any player 30 and over.

 

[ole ole]

Since when are the 16th and 17th overall picks spare parts?

Also since when is a 30 yr old considered to be in his prime.

 

[glenbuis2]

Yes and most of our older player are not the ones pulling up the team, they are mostly depth players like Gallagher, Armia, Dvorak, Anderson, Savard, Matheson. They are contributing. Outside of Matheson, none of these guys have key roles.

i really think anderson pulled his weight through the playoffs .

 

[glenbuis2]

Barzal has been a dominant playoff player. If you had both he and Suzuki, I think you just use Suzuki as your matchup center, then the Barzal line for OZ deployments to drive the offense.

Gallagher - Barzal - Demidov
Slafkovsky - Suzuki - Caufield

You could eventually move a guy like Beck to play alongside Barzal to help with faceoffs as well.

if you can move slakovsky , you could go from not only the youngest but the smallest team in the playoffs . not loving the approach .

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

if you can move slakovsky , you could go from not only the youngest but the smallest team in the playoffs . not loving the approach .

Barzal is 6'1 190...

 

[Captain97]

I was surprised that Habs fans were turning up their noses at Zacha for nothing of importance in the other thread, until I get here and see Habs fans turning up their noses at Mathew frickin Barzal for nothing of importance. Holy smokes.

There is a sub group of our fan base (like many) who only want to go after a perfect fit for what we need vs trying to make the team better.

Based on style of play I'd rather go after Horvat but if Barzal was available I'd be happy to have him instead.

But many of the fans who don't want Barzal also don't want Horvat because of age.

 

[Garbageyuk]

That's crazy talk, Barzal would be incredible in the Habs up tempo system. He scored 80 points last year playing under Patrick Roy / Lane Lambert.

A healthy Barzal would likely be the Habs leading scorer most seasons. He and Demidov would be an extremely dangerous duo.

He’s a good player, don’t get me wrong, and he has a lot of value, but he isn’t what the Habs need. I’m just not sure if he’d be the long term solution for us, and I wouldn’t want to give up the value it would take to get him if we aren’t getting that long term solution for sure.

There are much cheaper options, and we aren’t at a point where we need to make a trade like this - our contending window hasn’t even opened yet. We can afford to wait and see how things go.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I was surprised that Habs fans were turning up their noses at Zacha for nothing of importance in the other thread, until I get here and see Habs fans turning up their noses at Mathew frickin Barzal for nothing of importance. Holy smokes.

Barzal is absolutely at the top of my list. I just don't think he's a realistic target because I don't think NYI would be dumb enough to trade him

If Montreal could pull Barzal for some combination of middling roster pieces, non-Reinbacher prospects, and picks, they should do it and pray to every god there is for thanks for their good fortune.

Yes, I agree.

Personally I don’t even want Reinbacher as an Isles fan, I want Hage if we go top prospect route. I’m pretty sure Reinbacher has been out with quite a few injuries the past few seasons. If Barzal is damaged goods to them by that then Reinbacher is a whole different level of damaged goods.

I don't think anyone in the Habs organization has Hage over Reinbacher in the depth chart. Reinbacher hasn't had any real injuries in his career except the one he had in the training camp. He's also being grossly slept on. Many journalists covering the Rockets have been saying that he's been fantastic and the only game I saw him play (Live, in Laval) he's been by far the best player on the ice.

Truth is, if he hadn't been injured during camp, he would've finished the year in Montreal. There was even talks of calling him up and playing the game #5 against Washington if Carrier was a no-go.

Anyway, that's a moot point, because he wouldn't be available in trade. I can't say the same for Hage if we're serious about acquiring a legit 2C