Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[Ledge And Dairy]

Rumor at last draft was Zegras and 2nd 2024 from 26th overall 2024 and Mailloux. No way they give a mid 1st and Mailloux for Zacha

Moving to this thread since it's more on topic, and was brought up by Elliotte on 32T this morning. The apparent offer for Zegras was #21 (the pick used to draft Hage) and a young defenseman (he didn't specify but I would guess Mailloux since Edstrom is a LD and tthe Ducks don't need more LD). The deal apparently changed though when Anaheim took Sennecke at #3 and Demidov was likely going to be available to the Habs at #5. Friedman speculates that Montreal was probably going to take Sennecke at #5. He says the trade fell apart because Montreal views Zegras and Demidov as too similar of style players and doesn't want too much redundancy.

 

[ole ole]

I want Horvat, not sure about Barzal and the fit

Horvat is the perfect type of center for a second line and to play with Demidov and Laine, he's also locked for a while at a good deal.

I'd give up our two firsts and any prospect/talent the Isles want from (Mailloux, Arber Xhekaj, Joshua Roy, Beck, Kapanen or Engstrom

He'll be 32-33 on the downside of his career when/if we become true contenders. Contract is the killer. We'd still be stuck with him for 3 more yrs. Get a short term ban-aid till you get a chance at a younger C.

 

[ole ole]

Moving to this thread since it's more on topic, and was brought up by Elliotte on 32T this morning. The apparent offer for Zegras was #21 (the pick used to draft Hage) and a young defenseman (he didn't specify but I would guess Mailloux since Edstrom is a LD and tthe Ducks don't need more LD). The deal apparently changed though when Anaheim took Sennecke at #3 and Demidov was likely going to be available to the Habs at #5. Friedman speculates that Montreal was probably going to take Sennecke at #5. He says the trade fell apart because Montreal views Zegras and Demidov as too similar of style players and doesn't want too much redundancy.

Of the little i've seen of Demidov his style is nothing like Zegras
Point #5 makes no sense at all.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

That's more than Vegas paid for Eichel

Wrong that package probably isn’t even worth Tuch

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

No f***ing way. Whats this shit.

4 x 1sts for Bernier. FMD

If you’re counting Newhook and Mailloux as 1sts then you should count Beniers as a 2nd overall pick

Beniers scored 60+ in the NHL in his D+2 season, more than Michkov, and he’s a 6”2 C

 

[boredmale]

I want Horvat, not sure about Barzal and the fit

Horvat is the perfect type of center for a second line and to play with Demidov and Laine, he's also locked for a while at a good deal.

I'd give up our two firsts and any prospect/talent the Isles want from (Mailloux, Arber Xhekaj, Joshua Roy, Beck, Kapanen or Engstrom

While more than fair if we were looking to trade Horvat, I don't think Islanders have any plans trading Horvat(or Barzal for that matter) unless some team made an insane offer to improve our team now

 

[SallyBalls]

If you’re counting Newhook and Mailloux as 1sts then you should count Beniers as a 2nd overall pick

Beniers scored 60+ in the NHL in his D+2 season, more than Michkov, and he’s a 6”2 C

Berniers way over valued - Mailloux stll worth a 1st, Newhook is a NHL'er late first 1st early 2nd value..

Berniers closer to a 7-12 pick

Rubbish deal for the habs

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Berniers way over valued - Mailloux stll worth a 1st, Newhook is a NHL'er late first 1st early 2nd value..

Berniers closer to a 7-12 pick

Rubbish deal for the habs

Mailloux will be going into his D+5 season and isn't in the NHL, you will have a hard time convincing someone to give you a 1st for him. Probably could get a high 2nd though still.

Newhook is a depth player, he's small, not great defensively, and not good enough offensively to play in the top 6. You aren't likely to even get a 2nd for him, let alone a 1st

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Berniers way over valued - Mailloux stll worth a 1st, Newhook is a NHL'er late first 1st early 2nd value..

Berniers closer to a 7-12 pick

Rubbish deal for the habs

dude Mailloux can't even make the habs and you think other teams are going to want him?? Seattle isn't trading a two way C on long term contract for a bottom line D at best, a 3rd line winger / C

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

dude Mailloux can't even make the habs and you think other teams are going to want him?? Seattle isn't trading a two way C on long term contract for a bottom line D at best, a 3rd line winger / C

Mailloux definitely still has top 4 potential, the offense is there. The problem is he has no idea how to play defense yet.

Agree that there's zero chance Seattle does it though

 

[SallyBalls]

dude Mailloux can't even make the habs and you think other teams are going to want him?? Seattle isn't trading a two way C on long term contract for a bottom line D at best, a 3rd line winger / C

Theres also 2x1sts that were added to the original deal. Check the posts.

 

[FiveTacos]

Mailloux definitely still has top 4 potential, the offense is there.
The problem is he has no idea how to play defense yet.

If that's the deal, his offensive production in the AHL needs to be way better to command that sort of projection or value. "No idea how to play defense," combined with only around .55 ppg AHL production, does not add up to "top 4 potential," except in the most optimistic of projections.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If that's the deal, his offensive production in the AHL needs to be way better to command that sort of projection or value. "No idea how to play defense," combined with only around .55 ppg AHL production, does not add up to "top 4 potential," except in the most optimistic of projections.

*At the NHL level, he's 21, it takes time to learn how to defend at the NHL level.

I'm not a Habs fan so I don't watch him regularly but of his 7 games in the NHL this year it was pretty clear he wasn't ready for the jump. But again he's still young.

His rookie season in the AHL he had 47 points though, which is not an easy accomplishment.

 

[FiveTacos]

*At the NHL level, he's 21, it takes time to learn how to defend at the NHL level.

I'm not a Habs fan so I don't watch him regularly but of his 7 games in the NHL this year it was pretty clear he wasn't ready for the jump. But again he's still young.

His rookie season in the AHL he had 47 points though, which is not an easy accomplishment.

There's other rookie dmen who have done far better offensively. Clarke and Zellweger blew him away offensively last year, and both have shown better D at the NHL level too. There's a couple AHL rookies this year who are producing more as well. Significantly more.

At this point Mailloux should not be pacing at 7 fewer points than last year. And if you consider that it includes the fact that more than a quarter of his points came in the first 4 games of the season, his last 50+ AHL games of production have been ... underwhelming, to put it diplomatically.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

There's other rookie dmen who have done far better offensively. Clarke and Zellweger blew him away offensively last year, and both have shown better D at the NHL level too. There's a couple AHL rookies this year who are producing more as well. Significantly more.

At this point Mailloux should not be pacing at 7 fewer points than last year. And if you consider that it includes the fact that more than a quarter of his points came in the first 4 games of the season, his last 50+ AHL games of production have been ... underwhelming, to put it diplomatically.

Clarke was drafted 8th OA for a reason, no idea why he's even being brought up.

Zellweger was drafted just after Mailloux, and I agree he should be considered above him

Regardless, defensemen usually take until their mid 20's before they hit their prime. He's only 21 he has time to learn. Are you one of those people calling Nemec a bust too? Just because a 21 year old could use some more time learning how to play defense at the NHL level does not mean they can't still be a top 4 defenseman in their prime

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Beniers scored 60+ in the NHL in his D+2 season,

Beniers has never hit 60 points in a season thus far in his career.

 

[FiveTacos]

Clarke was drafted 8th OA for a reason, no idea why he's even being brought up.

Zellweger was drafted just after Mailloux, and I agree he should be considered above him

Regardless, defensemen usually take until their mid 20's before they hit their prime. He's only 21 he has time to learn. Are you one of those people calling Nemec a bust too? Just because a 21 year old could use some more time learning how to play defense at the NHL level does not mean they can't still be a top 4 defenseman in their prime

No, not writing him off. But I also don't want to overrate him, he was only good but not great last year for an AHL rookie. This year his production has actually gone down. If he's got "top 4 potential" then so do a crap ton of other prospects. There's a few rookies this year well ahead of him offensively, and next year there'll probably be a few more if he doesn't get in gear.

Yes, a lot of dmen take until their mid 20s. But you'd still like to see more progress, not regress, in his 21/22 yo season. So next year becomes pretty pivotal, another year like these first two isn't gonna be a good sign that he has anything more to offer than what he's shown. And in any case, nothing this year suggests he should return a legit young 2C even if packaged with a mid 1st.

 

[Chose]

No, not writing him off. But I also don't want to overrate him, he was only good but not great last year for an AHL rookie. This year his production has actually gone down. If he's got "top 4 potential" then so do a crap ton of other prospects. There's a few rookies this year well ahead of him offensively, and next year there'll probably be a few more if he doesn't get in gear.

Yes, a lot of dmen take until their mid 20s. But you'd still like to see more progress, not regress, in his 21/22 yo season. So next year becomes pretty pivotal, another year like these first two isn't gonna be a good sign that he has anything more to offer than what he's shown. And in any case, nothing this year suggests he should return a legit young 2C even if packaged with a mid 1st.

Funny thing is that everybody knows Mailloux is not in the NHL because of his defense, not because of his offense. Yet you evaluate a "regression" this year in his case looking only at his points, but he was -8 last year, and he his +4 this year. I see a progression where he needed one...

 

[FiveTacos]

Funny thing is that everybody knows Mailloux is not in the NHL because of his defense, not because of his offense. Yet you evaluate a "regression" this year in his case looking only at his points, but he was -8 last year, and he his +4 this year. I see a progression where he needed one...

Hey look points aren't everything. But a guy who's supposedly a top prospect should be doing more offensively AND improving defensively. His scoring rate in the AHL does not suggest he's going to be an offensive impact guy at the NHL level.

If you're only assuming he's a depth prospect then what he's shown is fine, he's still got a good chance to be an NHL player. But the claims have been he's this prized high probability top 4 guy, one that could be the centerpiece of a deal for a young 2C. On that basis, this year hasn't been up to that standard, hell I'd argue that quite a few young D who are clearly better than him don't hold that sort of value.

And look, a year from now he might be good defensively and putting up a bunch of points in the AHL. Things can change, kids improve suddenly. But let's not pretend this has been an encouraging developmental year for him, or that he's separated himself from a slew of prospects around the league with anything he's done.

 

[HabsMD97]

Hey look points aren't everything. But a guy who's supposedly a top prospect should be doing more offensively AND improving defensively. His scoring rate in the AHL does not suggest he's going to be an offensive impact guy at the NHL level.

If you're only assuming he's a depth prospect then what he's shown is fine, he's still got a good chance to be an NHL player. But the claims have been he's this prized high probability top 4 guy, one that could be the centerpiece of a deal for a young 2C. On that basis, this year hasn't been up to that standard, hell I'd argue that quite a few young D who are clearly better than him don't hold that sort of value.

And look, a year from now he might be good defensively and putting up a bunch of points in the AHL. Things can change, kids improve suddenly. But let's not pretend this has been an encouraging developmental year for him, or that he's separated himself from a slew of prospects around the league with anything he's done.

I'm not a Mailloux fan, I actually don't see a future for him with the habs but he has 5 points in 8 games at the NHL level without PP time, he's literally proving he has the offence to be a a really good offensive defenseman in the NHL. He's doing more than enough offensively to be NHL level in that regard.

 

[Chose]

Mailloux was never the centerpiece of those offers, this is exactly where the flaw is.
The first round pick, around 14-16th, was...
But at 21, he is a nice "throw in" with some value as offensive RHD with top 4 upside (never did we say he was that prized high probability top 4 guy)

But yeah, why focus on him if you don't like him, when there are other prospects not named Demidov that could also be that nice add to a good 1st. I remember Beck was named. I threw Hage out there.

But no, it's not gonna be Reinbacher either.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

You know when you click on a topic and when you read the thread, you have to go back and check what topic you clicked on?

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Horvat

For

Beck
Dach
Newhook

 

[loadie]

Horvat

For

Beck
Dach
Newhook

No way. Too old and too much term and he isn’t worth that at all IMO

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

No way. Too old and too much term and he isn’t worth that at all IMO

My view is that Montreal trades 3 maybe for a sure thing.