Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[Frank Drebin]

Not even close but good try. Most teams tend to offer something of quality that’s close to the value of the piece they want. Not a boatload of lower end pieces.

Depends what you consider lower end pieces. I'd be willing to offer a decent package for a better, younger, cheaper Matt Barzal.

 

[miscs75]

Depends what you consider lower end pieces. I'd be willing to offer a decent package for a better, younger, cheaper Matt Barzal.

Post something up that actually makes sense for the Isles. No cap dumps with term, prospects who are topping out as bottom roster filler pieces and future considerations picks.

 

[Rob Sense]

The issue comes down to what I said earlier with the math combination. Too many times I’ve seen Habs fans try to push 2+2+1+1+1+1+.5+.5+.5+.5 is the same as 10 in terms of quality. That’s the issue I have with trading a guy like Barzal and not getting back that piece to springboard the rebuild. Once again, Beck can be a great bottom 6 player but that’s not the point. The point is that too many times it’s been those guys being shoved into trades for high end veteran as the offset instead of a higher end prospect as the main piece.

all that extra ink and decimals add up

 

[Frank Drebin]

Post something up that actually makes sense for the Isles. No cap dumps with term, prospects who are topping out as bottom roster filler pieces and future considerations picks.

The Brayden Schenn offer above is what makes sense for the habs, although he was 3 years younger, with a better contract, and arguably a better fit.

 

[Grinner]

I’ve never even made an offer for Barzal, so I don’t know why you keep the rhetoric of “Habs offers are bad, bad!”

I’ve never said that Barzal NEEDS to go and if he does go, he would automatically be traded for futures.

All I said is that if you’re going to kickstart a rebuild and Barzal is moving, you can’t expect a first + high end prospect (surefire top 6 like you said) ++. That’s just unrealistic as an ask.

Horvat was not a sign and trade - That never happens but he did sign on the same day he was traded, so you gotta believe there was an understanding as to what was needed to sign a long term contract while the trade details was being worked on.

Your claim that historical value of a top 6 doesn’t apply to Barzal because he’s on your team but applied to everyone else , including the high end 2C in his prime you acquired 2 years ago is absolutely ridiculous and deserved to be called out.

Didn't the Islanders include their top prospect at the time?

 

[Grinner]

all that extra ink and decimals add up

 

[miscs75]

The Brayden Schenn offer above is what makes sense for the habs, although he was 3 years younger, with a better contract, and arguably a better fit.

So basically 2 1sts and Mesar in the eyes of Habs fans. That offer is basically pointless for the Isles.

 

[miscs75]

all that extra ink and decimals add up

Congrats, go offer it to Dallas for Johnston then and see what Dallas fans say.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Didn't the Islanders include their top prospect at the time?

From a bare prospect pool. Raty at the time would’ve been #6-7 in the Habs prospect pool… at best.

Just because he was your top prospect (for whatever reason) doesn’t mean he was highly valuable.

 

[Grinner]

From a bare prospect pool. Raty at the time would’ve been #6-7 in the Habs prospect pool.

Just because he was your top prospect (for whatever reason) doesn’t mean he was highly valuable.

Ya got to work with what you have
6th or 7th? Never stop

 

[Frank Drebin]

So basically 2 1sts and Mesar in the eyes of Habs fans. That offer is basically pointless for the Isles.

Fair enough, and yes. Doesn't seem like you're all that interested in moving him and if we're gonna pay that price I'd like to see someone Suzukis age or younger. You can argue you don't like the value, but you really can't say its not market value.

 

[Rob Sense]

Congrats, go offer it to Dallas for Johnston then and see what Dallas fans say.

i didn't offer anything to anyone just balancing the equation but if i did offer it, then it would not be to Dallas...i would save it for someone special

 

[Frank Drebin]

Congrats, go offer it to Dallas for Johnston then and see what Dallas fans say.

wyatt johnston is in a different league of value than Matt Barzal, specifically due to age. Johnston I would include Reinbacher as the main piece for.

 

[miscs75]

Fair enough, and yes. Doesn't seem like you're all that interested in moving him and if we're gonna pay that price I'd like to see someone Suzukis age or younger. You can argue you don't like the value, but you really can't say it’s not market value.

There’s no reason to move Barzal no matter how many trades Habs fans post up. There’s been too many trade threads from Habs asking for player X then getting told a value which is “too high” and then multiple pages about how player has nowhere near said value. Barzal is one of those players.

 

[miscs75]

wyatt johnston is in a different league of value than Matt Barzal, specifically due to age. Johnston I would include Reinbacher as the main piece for.

It’s still the principle of it. Not every team wants a lowball deal because that’s what another player went for in the past.

 

[Frank Drebin]

It’s still the principle of it. Not every team wants a lowball deal because that’s what another player went for in the past.

As I said earlier. You can say you don't like the value. You can say you woudn't accept that value. But you can't say its not market value.

 

[miscs75]

As I said earlier. You can say you don't like the value. You can say you woudn't accept that value. But you can't say its not market value.

Try that trade with a bunch of other players and see if teams even touch it. A guy who can’t hack it at the AHL is a player who teams dump with a 3rd for a trade deadline depth pickup, not a 2C under 30 with term.

 

[biturbo19]

i think the best 2 yr stop gap is teravainen . underlying numbers in chicago weren’t good but it’s chicago . prior to that in carolina they were fantastic . 2 yrs left . a little over 5 million . finnish so connection with laine maybe . wouldn’t cost a fortune . maybe newhook , a second plus a prospect ( farrell ) . recoup assets in year two if it’s not a fit .

A stopgap what? Teravainen is a winger. Don't see why the Habs would need to load up on any more "stopgap" veteran wingers.

I’m expecting a better package than a mid-late 1st, overhyped B tier prospect and filler pieces for Barzal. You can pick up 3rd/4th liners a lot easier than high end talent, that’s where I’m coming from with the bottom of the roster prospect types. It seems like every time a player has been asked about by Habs fans, he’s automatically trashed eventhough they want him. This guy isn’t worth the average going rate or our prospect is a surefire NHL player in the making.
Colorado can trade a top 25 prospect in Calum Ritchie with a 1st for a rental but Montreal would never do something anywhere near that to fill a major hole in the lineup.

This is exactly what it comes down to. It's about the "quality" not the "quantity". The top-end "centerpiece" of the return is the critical part when dealing a top-end talent like Barzal. Teams almost never come out ahead on the "quantity" side of any sort of "quality for quantity" deal (and when they do, it's usually just obscene luck in the draft or a prospect that take a completely unexpected jump out of nowhere). That's why just tacking on a bunch of extra B and C level assets does absolutely nothing for a team in the Isles shoes.

If Barzal is a $5 Bill...it doesn't really matter how many quarters, and nickels and dimes you want to stack on a loonie to get to that same theoretical "five bucks". The reality is, NHL roster space, development space, is limited. Higher quality assets are substantially more likely to pan out. Quality has to get quality back.

If something like Mailloux is the "best piece available" for Barzal...that's not going to get it done. Even if you stack another A tier piece like a mid-1st alongside him...and then start building from there...it's still always going to come down to whether other teams out there can offer a more enticing "centerpiece". Which i'm pretty sure multiple teams could muster.

Anderson is signed for 5.5M longterm and he hasn’t scored more than 32 points since 2018-2019

Everyone else knows he’s a cap dump, which is likely why that forum member suggested a couturier/anderson swap since both of their contracts suck.

Yeah. It's not that i dislike Josh Anderson as a player per se, or that i don't see value in what he can offer. It's simply the fact that he's the most plausibly expendable "bad contract" the Habs have to offset something. It's either that, or Gallagher...who i think is substantially more important to the Habs as a leader and veteran mentor, etc.

And either way...like i said, it's a moot point, because Philly has absolutely no use for an older RH shooting Winger on a bad contract. The cost to make that make sense for them to move off a badly needed Center like Couts in that "old overpaid" station, would have to be a price that wouldn't make sense for the Habs.

Which is where...i think that's an issue with a lot of teams, in figuring out a cap offset that actually makes more sense than Couts, or being willing to offer significant value for a 3x $7.75M bad contract that isn't gonna happen. That makes Couturier in his current situation, more or less impossible to move. Even if i don't think Philly are necessarily all that married to keeping him if the right offer came along. It's just the practical aspect of actually making a deal make sense that is hard to envision.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Try that trade with a bunch of other players and see if teams even touch it. A guy who can’t hack it at the AHL is a player who teams dump with a 3rd for a trade deadline depth pickup, not a 2C under 30 with term.

Philadelphia took that deal for brayden schenn…

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Anderson is signed for 5.5M longterm and he hasn’t scored more than 32 points since 2018-2019

Everyone else knows he’s a cap dump, which is likely why that forum member suggested a couturier/anderson swap since both of their contracts suck.

Couts contract is longer. Josh Anderson is fine in a 4th line role despite being overpaid. Couts is not fine in a 2C role. He is washed. We need a bonafide 2C.

Thought that should be obvious….

 

[miscs75]

Philadelphia took that deal for brayden schenn…

Congrats, call St Louis and ask them to take the offer for him.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Ya got to work with what you have
6th or 7th? Never stop

At the time he was traded (20) he wouldn’t have been ahead of (2025) Demidov, Reinbacher, Fowler and Hage. I think Mailloux would’ve also been ahead of him. So that’s at least 5.

Beck and Roy are debatable. Pretty similar type of prospects imo.

 

[Grinner]

At the time he was traded (20) he wouldn’t have been ahead of (2025) Demidov, Reinbacher, Fowler and Hage. I think Mailloux would’ve also been ahead of him. So that’s at least 5.

Beck and Roy are debatable. Pretty similar type of prospects imo.

Okay. The 1st 4, for sure.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Okay. The 1st 4, for sure.

So 5th, 6th or 7th depending on how you view Mailloux, Beck, Roy and Raty? Claiming him being 6th or 7th wasn’t far fetched after all.

 

[AvatarAang]

Couts contract is longer. Josh Anderson is fine in a 4th line role despite being overpaid. Couts is not fine in a 2C role. He is washed. We need a bonafide 2C.

Thought that should be obvious….

Any unbiased person knows that 5.5M for a 4th liner is a cap dump, thought that should be obvious…