Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[miscs75]

Yeah I definitely should have added Romanov to that list, Holmstrom I would consider more a complimentary player. While I like Holmstrom and at this point in time wouldn't trade him unless we got an unbelievable offer, once he gets a bigger contract you sort of ask yourself do we really need him.

Holmstrom is going to be that middle six piece that will help provide quality complimentary scoring. He’ll quietly turn into a 25 goal guy for a few years and just keep getting better defensively. Most teams have a similar player but usually it’s one of the 30 year old experienced veteran types. This is why I’d include him with that core group eventhough he’s not a major piece to build around. He’s basically comparable to a 2nd pairing RHD who’s good on both sides of the puck.

 

[Gliff]

Would Anaheim do Dach for Zegras? Re-unite Zegras and Caufield

Not in a million years. What is the upside for the Ducks? Zegras has shown he is a top 6 forward, twice. Dach's career high 38 points aint it. I know you are just watching stat lines and that explains it, but Zegras in the lineup has proven to make a huge impact on the Ducks.

Zegras isn't much better and paid twice the caphit

If you feel that way then why would you want him? Not to mention cap space might be the least important thing to the Ducks. They took Trouba's full cap. They took Husso's full cap.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I also think thinking Islanders are in a middle of a rebuild is wrong. With Barzal, Dobson and Sorokin, they have a decent basis to build around, add Horvat who still has a few good years left I don't think then need a complete tear down

They should 100% tear it down
The team is mediocre. Yes they have great players like Dobson and Barzal, but it's simply ain't enough

 

[boredmale]

They should 100% tear it down
The team is mediocre. Yes they have great players like Dobson and Barzal, but it's simply ain't enough

It would be nice if we could move up in the draft(we can use one of those centers) or make some huge signing this off season(Unlikely)

 

[miscs75]

They should 100% tear it down
The team is mediocre. Yes they have great players like Dobson and Barzal, but it's simply ain't enough

The problem with selling them off is that they need that blue chip prospect to somehow be coming back either in the trade or the draft. By blue chip, I’m talking bonafied future star, not Slaf/Lafreniere 2nd line types. Essentially the Isles would need to at worst get a #1 who’s the next Tavares for the organization at minimum.
To trade them and get a bunch of late picks, B/C tier prospects and cap dump veterans who can’t play at the NHL level anymore puts the Isles in a rough spot. Having 525600 prospects is great but quality ≠ quality. Case in point why if I’m moving both Barzal and Dobson to Montreal (as an example), I want Demidov in that package. A Mailloux+ package just isn’t it. I don’t care if Mailloux is a physical defender who might at next top out to the middle pairing.

 

[Artaud]

The problem with selling them off is that they need that blue chip prospect to somehow be coming back either in the trade or the draft. By blue chip, I’m talking bonafied future star, not Slaf/Lafreniere 2nd line types. Essentially the Isles would need to at worst get a #1 who’s the next Tavares for the organization at minimum.
To trade them and get a bunch of late picks, B/C tier prospects and cap dump veterans who can’t play at the NHL level anymore puts the Isles in a rough spot. Having 525600 prospects is great but quality ≠ quality. Case in point why if I’m moving both Barzal and Dobson to Montreal (as an example), I want Demidov in that package. A Mailloux+ package just isn’t it. I don’t care if Mailloux is a physical defender who might at next top out to the middle pairing.

Teams don't really trade surefire elite prospects. The sad reality is that if the Islanders (or any team) want that kind of player, they will need to tank to get it, and in order to tank, they will have to liquidate their good players for whatever they can get, which is most likely gonna be the type of package of picks and prospects you don't seem to want.

There's a few teams that are rising and looking to add a missing piece, much like the Habs. I think all of them will be offering ponies for a horse.

If I'm the Habs, I would be looking at Dallas as a team that is rich at C and might want to get stronger elsewhere, restock their prospect pool or reload their depleted draft capital.

 

[miscs75]

Teams don't really trade surefire elite prospects. The sad reality is that if the Islanders (or any team) want that kind of player, they will need to tank to get it, and in order to tank, they will have to liquidate their good players for whatever they can get, which is most likely gonna be the type of package of picks and prospects you don't seem to want.

There's a few teams that are rising and looking to add a missing piece, much like the Habs. I think all of them will be offering ponies for a horse.

If I'm the Habs, I would be looking at Dallas as a team that is rich at C and might want to get stronger elsewhere, restock their prospect pool or reload their depleted draft capital.

Once again, the problem comes down to the quality of prospects you’re expecting to move out. It’s understandable teams don’t trade elite prospects that often but the Isles shouldn’t just take a 1st, some mediocre prospect and filler pieces such as cap dumps/mid round picks/minor leaguers to stockpile an excessive number of draft picks. Too many Habs trades I’ve seen on here asking for major pieces that are younger and at best offering up Mailloux like he’s the prized possession everyone wants. If the Isles move out Barzal, they should be taking in a high end forward prospect and guys like Owen Beck/Josh Roy are not that. Too many 3 quarters, 2 dimes and a nickel equals a dollar trade proposals from Montreal/Vancouver fans on here. The unfortunate thing is that if the Isles do put Barzal on the market, it’ll be an overpayment in terms of quality for him, not quantity.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The problem with selling them off is that they need that blue chip prospect to somehow be coming back either in the trade or the draft. By blue chip, I’m talking bonafied future star, not Slaf/Lafreniere 2nd line types. Essentially the Isles would need to at worst get a #1 who’s the next Tavares for the organization at minimum.
To trade them and get a bunch of late picks, B/C tier prospects and cap dump veterans who can’t play at the NHL level anymore puts the Isles in a rough spot. Having 525600 prospects is great but quality ≠ quality. Case in point why if I’m moving both Barzal and Dobson to Montreal (as an example), I want Demidov in that package. A Mailloux+ package just isn’t it. I don’t care if Mailloux is a physical defender who might at next top out to the middle pairing.

You can want that, but Barzal/Dobson alone aren't the age or contract status to get that level of blue chip, adding to them isn't going to get a team with that piece to agree, and most teams don't really care about acquiring them together that much.

True blue chip pieces don't get traded period unless you're offering truly elite players or they've developed to the point they're where Lafreniere is now. Either you keep Barzal/Dobson and risk losing them when contracts expire or you take a risk and target a piece you think could be an impact player, but isn't as held in high regard.

 

[miscs75]

You can want that, but Barzal/Dobson alone aren't the age or contract status to get that level of blue chip, adding to them isn't going to get a team with that piece to agree, and most teams don't really care about acquiring them together that much.

True blue chip pieces don't get traded period unless you're offering truly elite players or they've developed to the point they're where Lafreniere is now. Either you keep Barzal/Dobson and risk losing them when contracts expire or you take a risk and target a piece you think could be an impact player, but isn't as held in high regard.

So basically sell low to nickel and dime the Isles in hopes one of those “highly touted” B tier prospects becomes a 3rd line winger for 10 years, got it. Yeah, still not going to work offering Mailloux/2025 2nd/Mesar as a package for Barzal or any team who has a 2C option in the mid 20s range. You might get someone in the early 30s for that offer who’s going to decline in 2 years.

 

[Captain Mountain]

So basically sell low to nickel and dime the Isles in hopes one of those “highly touted” B tier prospects becomes a 3rd line winger for 10 years, got it. Yeah, still not going to work offering Mailloux/2025 2nd/Mesar as a package for Barzal or any team who has a 2C option in the mid 20s range. You might get someone in the early 30s for that offer who’s going to decline in 2 years.

I don't really think Barzal is a great fit for Montreal and Mailloux/2025 2nd/Mesar is not remotely a fair package for him. But there's a massive gulf between that and Demidov+.

And Barzal turns 28 in May, he's not really "mid-20s", he's UFA aged, and will be coming off a knee injury with a restrictive NTC list (and doesn't consistently play C). Lets not pretend that he's worth a guy who's consistently viewed as the top/top-3/top-5 drafted NHL prospect not in the NHL "in that package".

There are plenty of examples of high end NHL players moving for good, but not great prospects/young NHLers. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but there's an expectation that there will be risk involved.

 

[miscs75]

I don't really think Barzal is a great fit for Montreal and Mailloux/2025 2nd/Mesar is not remotely a fair package for him. But there's a massive gulf between that and Demidov+.

And Barzal turns 28 in May, he's not really "mid-20s", he's UFA aged, and will be coming off a knee injury with a restrictive NTC list (and doesn't consistently play C). Lets not pretend that he's worth a guy who's consistently viewed as the top/top-3/top-5 drafted NHL prospect not in the NHL "in that package".

There are plenty of examples of high end NHL players moving for good, but not great prospects/young NHLers. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but there's an expectation that there will be risk involved.

The issue comes to the return package id there was a deal. It was the example of wanting both Dobson AND Barzal, not just one. I’m not saying Demidov has to be the return but it also can’t be a bunch of low end B/C tier prospects with picks and cap dumps as an offset.
Most players have some form of trade restrictions on their contract so that that’s not even anything to bring up. To bring up the injury, it was from a blocked shot, not really something that’s a consistent problem for him unlike a bunch of others across the league. There is an expectation of risk but there also needs to be an offer that benefits the Islanders both in the short and long term if they were to move our core pieces to rebuild and personally I don’t feel that prospects who might become bottom 6 forwards/bottom pairing defenseman are even worth it as a starting piece.

 

[Bouboumaster]

The problem with selling them off is that they need that blue chip prospect to somehow be coming back either in the trade or the draft. By blue chip, I’m talking bonafied future star, not Slaf/Lafreniere 2nd line types. Essentially the Isles would need to at worst get a #1 who’s the next Tavares for the organization at minimum.
To trade them and get a bunch of late picks, B/C tier prospects and cap dump veterans who can’t play at the NHL level anymore puts the Isles in a rough spot. Having 525600 prospects is great but quality ≠ quality. Case in point why if I’m moving both Barzal and Dobson to Montreal (as an example), I want Demidov in that package. A Mailloux+ package just isn’t it. I don’t care if Mailloux is a physical defender who might at next top out to the middle pairing.

I get you

Demidov ain't moving because, we spend 3 long years sucking ass to finally snatch him but I get what you are saying

In anotber thread I proposed Calgary 2025 1st + Montréal 2026 1st + Montréal 2025 4th + Michael Hague for Barzal alone

Would this be something you'd entertain?

 

[miscs75]

I get you

Demidov ain't moving because, we spend 3 long years sucking ass to finally snatch him but I get what you are saying

In anotber thread I proposed Calgary 2025 1st + Montréal 2026 1st + Montréal 2025 4th + Michael Hague for Barzal alone

Would this be something you'd entertain?

Thst’s atleast on the track for Barzal but for Dobson too it would need atleast an upgrade in terms of prospect (to start). Theres just too many Habs fans on here who think sending offers of 3+2+1+1+1+.5+.5+.5+.5 for 10 is fair in their minds (and an overpayment from some in a few cases). That was the whole issue all along. Ideally if the Isles were to just blow it up instead of retool, then it makes sense but there’s way too many threads on here from Habs and lately Canucks fans looking to nickel and dime every trade while claiming every asset they want is worth less then expect. I can bring up the Brock Nelson drama with how quite a few Wild fans pushed how he wasn’t worth a 1st and was only worth a 2nd and a C tier prospect because they didn’t have a first. It’s no different in this case. If Lou was to actually move on from core pieces, the offers would have to blow him away and essentially resort to overpayment.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Thst’s atleast on the track for Barzal but for Dobson too it would need atleast an upgrade in terms of prospect (to start). Theres just too many Habs fans on here who think sending offers of 3+2+1+1+1+.5+.5+.5+.5 for 10 is fair in their minds (and an overpayment from some in a few cases). That was the whole issue all along. Ideally if the Isles were to just blow it up instead of retool, then it makes sense but there’s way too many threads on here from Habs and lately Canucks fans looking to nickel and dime every trade while claiming every asset they want is worth less then expect. I can bring up the Brock Nelson drama with how quite a few Wild fans pushed how he wasn’t worth a 1st and was only worth a 2nd and a C tier prospect because they didn’t have a first. It’s no different in this case. If Lou was to actually move on from core pieces, the offers would have to blow him away and essentially resort to overpayment.

Montréal has the piece to get Dobson (Demidov) but trading said piece would create a hole elsewhere and we can't afford it

I'm sure the Isles could get a king's Ransom for him tho, which would track with his value

 

[miscs75]

Montréal has the piece to get Dobson (Demidov) but trading said piece would create a hole elsewhere and we can't afford it

I'm sure the Isles could get a king's Ransom for him tho, which would track with his value

Ideally the smart move is a sign and trade with Dobson, getting a top 6 forward (not an excessive amount of futures) in return. Using Deangelo as a short term stop gap to offset the missing offense. It’s more of a retool needed, similar to what Washington did instead of blow it up and start over for 10 seasons of suffering. I’m not a fan of rebuilding personally since more teams are likely to be in the position of Chicago/Buffalo instead of how Pittsburgh did it when they got Sid/Geno/MAF/Staal.

 

[biturbo19]

Could Couturier be available?

He would definitely be more of a stop gap while Habs hope that Hage (or Kapanen) blossoms into top-6 role.

I'd imagine Couturier would be plenty available. In a vacuum, he'd probably even be a great "stopgap" for the Habs. However...3 more years @ $7.75M on a guy who is clearly slowing down (and wasn't fast to begin with) and has noted back issues, is definitely suboptimal. Probably a non-starter.

The idea of retention is probably out of the question...especially considering the Flyers have absolutely no pressing need to move him whatsoever. In fact, it's very likely they'd prefer to just hang onto him unless someone blows their socks off. They need playable NHL Centers with experience and some two-way ability who can hold up defensively but also have the skill and smarts to play with talented younger players as well, as they try to bring in young players as they rebuild. As long as he's willing to keep plugging away at it...he seems like a good solid veteran leader to keep around along with Konecny, to help insulate and mentor the kids as they come along...avoid falling into that Buffalo pit of despair scenario.

The only way to really balance that would be something like Josh Anderson going the other way to offset a big chunk of it. But the Flyers need another RH Winger like a hole in the head. So...that's also probably a non-starter.


I think Couts injuries, decline, and contract make him pretty close to unmovable...even in a league that is absolutely starved for even a 2/3C "tweener" with size and some defensive conscience.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'd imagine Couturier would be plenty available. In a vacuum, he'd probably even be a great "stopgap" for the Habs. However...3 more years @ $7.75M on a guy who is clearly slowing down (and wasn't fast to begin with) and has noted back issues, is definitely suboptimal. Probably a non-starter.

The idea of retention is probably out of the question...especially considering the Flyers have absolutely no pressing need to move him whatsoever. In fact, it's very likely they'd prefer to just hang onto him unless someone blows their socks off. They need playable NHL Centers with experience and some two-way ability who can hold up defensively but also have the skill and smarts to play with talented younger players as well, as they try to bring in young players as they rebuild. As long as he's willing to keep plugging away at it...he seems like a good solid veteran leader to keep around along with Konecny, to help insulate and mentor the kids as they come along...avoid falling into that Buffalo pit of despair scenario.

The only way to really balance that would be something like Josh Anderson going the other way to offset a big chunk of it. But the Flyers need another RH Winger like a hole in the head. So...that's also probably a non-starter.


I think Couts injuries, decline, and contract make him pretty close to unmovable...even in a league that is absolutely starved for even a 2/3C "tweener" with size and some defensive conscience.

Anderson has also reinvented himself somewhat as PKer and 3rd liner, he's still overpaid, but its hard to replace that role and his blend of speed and size. I doubt Montreal has any interest in moving him as an offset.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

If you feel that way then why would you want him? Not to mention cap space might be the least important thing to the Ducks. They took Trouba's full cap. They took Husso's full cap.

Sometimes a change can do wonders

 

[glenbuis2]

I'd imagine Couturier would be plenty available. In a vacuum, he'd probably even be a great "stopgap" for the Habs. However...3 more years @ $7.75M on a guy who is clearly slowing down (and wasn't fast to begin with) and has noted back issues, is definitely suboptimal. Probably a non-starter.

The idea of retention is probably out of the question...especially considering the Flyers have absolutely no pressing need to move him whatsoever. In fact, it's very likely they'd prefer to just hang onto him unless someone blows their socks off. They need playable NHL Centers with experience and some two-way ability who can hold up defensively but also have the skill and smarts to play with talented younger players as well, as they try to bring in young players as they rebuild. As long as he's willing to keep plugging away at it...he seems like a good solid veteran leader to keep around along with Konecny, to help insulate and mentor the kids as they come along...avoid falling into that Buffalo pit of despair scenario.

The only way to really balance that would be something like Josh Anderson going the other way to offset a big chunk of it. But the Flyers need another RH Winger like a hole in the head. So...that's also probably a non-starter.


I think Couts injuries, decline, and contract make him pretty close to unmovable...even in a league that is absolutely starved for even a 2/3C "tweener" with size and some defensive conscience.

i think the best 2 yr stop gap is teravainen . underlying numbers in chicago weren’t good but it’s chicago . prior to that in carolina they were fantastic . 2 yrs left . a little over 5 million . finnish so connection with laine maybe . wouldn’t cost a fortune . maybe newhook , a second plus a prospect ( farrell ) . recoup assets in year two if it’s not a fit .

 

[Baksfamous112]

So basically sell low to nickel and dime the Isles in hopes one of those “highly touted” B tier prospects becomes a 3rd line winger for 10 years, got it. Yeah, still not going to work offering Mailloux/2025 2nd/Mesar as a package for Barzal or any team who has a 2C option in the mid 20s range. You might get someone in the early 30s for that offer who’s going to decline in 2 years.

No what he means is sell your valuable pieces now for futures - who has a higher chance to being depth players but still has a outside chance of being top 6 F/top 4 D and picks. That will trigger a “tank” where you get your cornerstone pieces (generational/elite players).

That way in a few years you have a bunch of elite players, a few complimentary pieces and a lot of depth to complete the line-up.

 

[Chose]

Q: 2C ?
R: Kuznetsov ?

He was strangely just released from the SKA as well, with years left on his contact. He was Demidov's mentor in Russia.
With the vet line playing on their head, and Laine being a liability most of the time at 5vs5, maybe they play that middle 6 the same TOI. Kuznetsov is not a bad 3C and can chip in as a 2C if needed.
That would help a lot in easing Demidov's debut.

 

[Xirik]

Q: 2C ?
R: Kuznetsov ?

He was strangely just released from the SKA as well, with years left on his contact. He was Demidov's mentor in Russia.
With the vet line playing on their head, and Laine being a liability most of the time at 5vs5, maybe they play that middle 6 the same TOI. Kuznetsov is not a bad 3C and can chip in as a 2C if needed.
That would help a lot in easing Demidov's debut.

Does Montreal have good straws?

 

[Chose]

Does Montreal have good straws?

I think the Kostitsyn bros left a full box, and they are plastic ones, mind you.

 

[miscs75]

No what he means is sell your valuable pieces now for futures - who has a higher chance to being depth players but still has a outside chance of being top 6 F/top 4 D and picks. That will trigger a “tank” where you get your cornerstone pieces (generational/elite players).

That way in a few years you have a bunch of elite players, a few complimentary pieces and a lot of depth to complete the line-up.

It’s the problem with what the futures are. If the prospects are going to be projected bottom roster filler pieces, that’s not even worth it just to sell off guys. Moving Barzal for example and the prospect being a depth guy in the minors who will develop into a best a bottom 6 depth piece really isn’t smart in hopes the drafted pieces develop. You’re more likely to be a bust than a bonafied superstar.

 

[Chose]

It’s the problem with what the futures are. If the prospects are going to be projected bottom roster filler pieces, that’s not even worth it just to sell off guys. Moving Barzal for example and the prospect being a depth guy in the minors who will develop into a best a bottom 6 depth piece really isn’t smart in hopes the drafted pieces develop. You’re more likely to be a bust than a bonafied superstar.

But if you want a 1st around 16th (with which if you are drafting a bottom 6 player, you are doing it wrong) with a prospect, you won't get a Demidov level prospect with it. Not saying that a 1st + Mailloux gets you Barzal, but the 1st AND Mailloux are projected better than bottom sixers. Beck probably has that ceiling, by the nature of his play, but he is projected to be an excelllent one.