Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

[Galaxydoggystyle]

He did get 20 points in 16 games against the 5 worst teams in the KHL (below AHL level). That leaves 29 points in 48 games against non bottom-dwellers of the KHL.

I assume if we do the same analysis for all KHL players, we would get similar results (i.e. more points against bottom dwellers)... but I would disagree in saying that Demidov is torching the KHL. It still is an historic season for a U20 player, but it would not be a disaster if he needs to play a few months in the AHL (not a few years!).

Actually it wouldnt be similar Demidov is being basically abused by his coach being played very little just because he doesn't want to resign with them. So no its not the same. Demidov if he had any normal coach and was playing top line minutes the whole season he would be beyond torching the KHL actually.

 

[The Great Weal]

no thanks...i'd do the first and probably Beck or Kapanen + a second rounder too...

I know for many Hage is magic Beans - but he's the kid they're grooming to be a 2C.

Horvat would be a good placeholder as he only has 3 years left. But he's 30 with a big cap hit.
The initial deal was Raty - who's done very little and Beauvilier who's a journeyman. And a 1st

I'm a Habs fan but Hage is getting overrated, you'd think he was a guaranteed star in the making the way many Habs fans are reluctant to trade him for a 2C when his upside is a 2C. If he's the main piece for Horvat who'd be a 60-70 point 2way center next to Demidov and Laine, you make the trade. Brock Nelson just got something similar as a pure rental and as an older player. I will say that there should be some retention on this hypothetical Horvat trade.

Kapanen/Beck + 2nd are spare pieces, no team is seeking that for a legit top 6 C.

Either way, Isles need center depth anyways so I doubt Horvat's getting traded.

 

[BLNY]

no thanks...i'd do the first and probably Beck or Kapanen + a second rounder too...

I know for many Hage is magic Beans - but he's the kid they're grooming to be a 2C.

Horvat would be a good placeholder as he only has 3 years left. But he's 30 with a big cap hit.
The initial deal was Raty - who's done very little and Beauvilier who's a journeyman. And a 1st

Horvat's got another six years. At nearly 30, he's outside the window that Hughes is looking for imo.

 

[QuebeCaniac]

Actually it wouldnt be similar Demidov is being basically abused by his coach being played very little just because he doesn't want to resign with them. So no its not the same. Demidov if he had any normal coach and was playing top line minutes the whole season he would be beyond torching the KHL actually.

Demidov plays 13:44 per game.

Artamonov (same age, more goals than Demidov) plays 13:13 per game.

Nobody says Artamonov is being abused. Coaches don't trust young players when they are still learning the defensive game. KHL is not a development league.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

I'm a Habs fan but Hage is getting overrated, you'd think he was a guaranteed star in the making the way many Habs fans are reluctant to trade him for a 2C when his upside is a 2C. If he's the main piece for Horvat who'd be a 60-70 point 2way center next to Demidov and Laine, you make the trade. Brock Nelson just got something similar as a pure rental and as an older player. I will say that there should be some retention on this hypothetical Horvat trade.

Kapanen/Beck + 2nd are spare pieces, no team is seeking that for a legit top 6 C.

Either way, Isles need center depth anyways so I doubt Horvat's getting traded.

I agree Hage is way over hyped I would trade the kid in a heart beat if it meant we got some decent 2nd line center back. All this "lets wait until he is ready in a few years" talk is nonsense. People need to realize that Suzuki Caufield and soon Slaf's contracts have already started or will be starting. We need to put this team together as soon as possible to get the biggest window. If Hage comes in half way through these sweet deals and doesnt pan out then what? We going to bank on some other random kid to fill in that role?

 

[The Great Weal]

I agree Hage is way over hyped I would trade the kid in a heart beat if it meant we got some decent 2nd line center back. All this "lets wait until he is ready in a few years" talk is nonsense. People need to realize that Suzuki Caufield and soon Slaf's contracts have already started or will be starting. We need to put this team together as soon as possible to get the biggest window. If Hage comes in half way through these sweet deals and doesnt pan out then what? We going to bank on some other random kid to fill in that role?

Not to mention that we've gotten burned with projects like Dach and Newhook. Horvat is an established 2C with an excellent defensive game, the exact type of player you want next to Demidov and Laine. If Hage does become a 60-70 point 2C, Suzuki will likely be around 30 meaning we'd only have like 5 years of quality play from him at the max.

 

[Benstheman]

Not to mention that we've gotten burned with projects like Dach and Newhook. Horvat is an established 2C with an excellent defensive game, the exact type of player you want next to Demidov and Laine. If Hage does become a 60-70 point 2C, Suzuki will likely be around 30 meaning we'd only have like 5 years of quality play from him at the max.

Hage is not being traded for a 30 years old C. He is not untouchable but it doesn't make sense to trade him for a guy who could start declining when the team starts contending.

The idea should be to get a 2C while Hage develops and then take the spot.

Now if we are talking about 26-27 years old 2C who would likely be with us and be a 2C for 6-7 years, it makes more sense and I would do it.

 

[The Great Weal]

Hage is not being traded for a 30 years old C. He is not untouchable but it doesn't make sense to trade him for a guy who could start declining when the team starts contending.

The idea should be to get a 2C while Hage develops and then take the spot.

Now if we are talking about 26-27 years old 2C who would likely be with us and be a 2C for 6-7 years, it makes more sense and I would do it.

It also doesn't make sense to hold onto him and hope he becomes that 2C before Suzuki turns 30 (meaning he could be declining).

Hage won't be the main asset for a younger top 6 C.

The Isles traded an older Brock Nelson for that package, they aren't getting less for Horvat.

 

[Benstheman]

It also doesn't make sense to hold onto him and hope he becomes that 2C before Suzuki turns 30 (meaning he could be declining).

Hage won't be the main asset for a younger top 6 C.

The Isles traded an older Brock Nelson for that package, they aren't getting less for Horvat.

That's why I think one of the options is signing a ufa like Granlund for 3-4 years.

What package?? If you're talking about Hage + 2025 1st. It's way better than Ritchie + extra late 1st in 2-3 years.

 

[The Great Weal]

That's why I think one of the options is signing a ufa like Granlund for 3-4 years.

Granlund is a bandaid solution. Horvat is a legit top 6 C with an excellent defensive game which is needed to play with Laine and a rookie Demidov, that's something that Granlund cannot provide.

What package?? If you're talking about Hage + 2025 1st. It's way better than Ritchie + extra late 1st in 2-3 years.

It most definitely is not "way" better. That 1st is far from guaranteed to be "extra late" compared to the worst one we have in 2025 and 2025 is seen as a poor draft class in terms of depth. Definitely better odds that the Avs regress as they will lose depth, and need to pay others way more. Hage is better than Ritchie but Ritchie is still a damn good prospect himself.

For the sake of the argument, let's say our 1st is around 5 spots higher than the Avs one but in a worse draft class, and Hage is one tier ahead of Ritchie. We're still getting a younger player with more term at a cheaper AAV (I mentioned how Isles would have to retain in this trade). I think the package is relatively comparable but let's stick to your evaluation of it. If what we're offering is "way better", then what we're getting in return is "way way better". It's still not comparable. You're not getting Horvat for 1st+Beck/Kapanen+2nd which is a "way way way worse" offer.

 

[billy piton]

Granlund is a bandaid solution. Horvat is a legit top 6 C with an excellent defensive game which is needed to play with Laine and a rookie Demidov, that's something that Granlund cannot provide.

It most definitely is not "way" better. That 1st is far from guaranteed to be "extra late" compared to the worst one we have in 2025 and 2025 is seen as a poor draft class in terms of depth. Definitely better odds that the Avs regress as they will lose depth, and need to pay others way more. Hage is better than Ritchie but Ritchie is still a damn good prospect himself.

For the sake of the argument, let's say our 1st is around 5 spots higher than the Avs one but in a worse draft class, and Hage is one tier ahead of Ritchie. We're still getting a younger player with more term at a cheaper AAV (I mentioned how Isles would have to retain in this trade). I think the package is relatively comparable but let's stick to your evaluation of it. If what we're offering is "way better", then what we're getting in return is "way way better". It's still not comparable. You're not getting Horvat for 1st+Beck/Kapanen+2nd which is a "way way way worse" offer.

i agree. two 1st round picks and hage would have to be on the table for any reasonable top six center who isn't well passed his prime.

 

[Luceni]

Rossi is available this summer. Guerin won't sign him because he's stupid and values size over anything. So I wonder if Montreal would be a good landing spot for him.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Rossi is available this summer. Guerin won't sign him because he's stupid and values size over anything. So I wonder if Montreal would be a good landing spot for him.

I think they'll be looking for someone with size, they don't have much down the middle especially with Dach's future in question

 

[Jared Dunn]

Demidov plays 13:44 per game.

Artamonov (same age, more goals than Demidov) plays 13:13 per game.

Nobody says Artamonov is being abused. Coaches don't trust young players when they are still learning the defensive game. KHL is not a development league.

He's their leading scorer and they're healthy scratching him

 

[FerrisRox]

Rossi is available this summer. Guerin won't sign him because he's stupid and values size over anything. So I wonder if Montreal would be a good landing spot for him.

I don't think it's stupid at all.

One of the reasons the Canadiens passed on Michkov was absolutely about his size because they didn't think having two Top Six forwards that were undersized was a good recipe for success.

Essentially, if they had drafted Michkov, it would have meant trading Cole Caufield. With their #1 centre at 5'11, their top winger at 5'8 and their top blue liner at 5'9 the Canadiens do not want any other core pieces that undersized, and I think they are right.

The absolutely need pieces that can help shelter smaller forwards and players that can use their size, strength and reach to maximize the skillsets of their smaller, talented pieces.

I think Rossi is an excellent player and a lot of fun to watch, but he absolutely is not the guy the Canadiens should be adding to their top six.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Horvat's got another six years. At nearly 30, he's outside the window that Hughes is looking for imo.

I don’t think so. With what he said about Suzuki prime years, I think he sees the window opening really soon. If Horvat can give us a 5-6 years of solid hockey this is good.

 

[viceroy]

If Horvat can give us a 5-6 years of solid hockey this is good.

I don't think he can.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Why not approach Tavares in free agency?

 

[HuGo Sham]

Why not approach Tavares in free agency?

maybe entice him with these?

YHPC0007 PYJAMA UNIFORME CANADIENS X PETIT LEM

The online store for all official Montreal Canadiens, Rocket, Expos and Alouettes jerseys, t-shirts, hats, accessories and much more.

www.tricoloresports.com

 

[FerrisRox]

Why not approach Tavares in free agency?

I would prefer Matt Duchene if I was going to opt for a veteran place holder. Duchene's foot speed makes him a much better fit for the way the Canadiens play. Laine's size and sniping ability with Duchene up the middle would be a nice pair for Ivan Demidov to start his career.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I would prefer Matt Duchene if I was going to opt for a veteran place holder. Duchene's foot speed makes him a much better fit for the way the Canadiens play. Laine's size and sniping ability with Duchene up the middle would be a nice pair for Ivan Demidov to start his career.

Tavares >>>>>>>>>> Duchene

 

[FerrisRox]

Tavares >>>>>>>>>> Duchene

Cool. You keep Tavares and I'll hope the Stars let Duchene walk to free agency.

 

[HabzSauce]

Horvat for Hage and your later first this year

I'd bite I think. But I doubt Lou would go that direction

 

[frederixx]

I'm a Habs fan but Hage is getting overrated, you'd think he was a guaranteed star in the making the way many Habs fans are reluctant to trade him for a 2C when his upside is a 2C. If he's the main piece for Horvat who'd be a 60-70 point 2way center next to Demidov and Laine, you make the trade.

Overhyped? Probably by Habs fans, like most of their prospects. But he has tons of potential. Let's not forget that he's a 2006 born, just like Hagens. They both had similar numbers this year. While his upside might not be as high, he's certainly a very interesting prospect and you just can't ignore his dream of playing for Montreal.

Montreal needs to be patient, they are not there quite yet. Soon, maybe, just not next year or the following. Their real gem is Demidov IMO

 

[HabzSauce]

They are for sure great prospects with a high ceiling of potential - more so Demidov - but...they were many other suitable picks. Picks are hypotheticals until they convert to a palpable contributor to your roster. So many things can come about before they can crack the lineup - Reinbacker's injury is a good example. In the meanwhile you need to address your current roster needs. And that 2nd line center need was vacant for far too long. Monahan came and filled the gap and brought leadership and stability to the roster.

What he brought - for me - was more valuable than hypotheticals.

Monahan is injured again this year I don't think Habs regret moving on considering we got Hage out of it. Otherwise totally agree. Habs can't wait & pray their magic beans become something down the line. Will take years before guys like Hage even break out. They need someone now