GDT: #9 | Canadiens at Flyers | Sunday, October 27, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

[Beef Invictus]

"I don't defend Chuck Fletcher."

The French held Verdun with less enthusiasm and effort

 

[deadhead]

Of course keeping them would make a difference. Better players make teams better.


Failing to address underlying problems, that was his job. He failed at his job.

Team did not need a miracle worker. It needed basic competence. Fletcher has never provided that.

How much of a difference?
Atkinson 23-27 50
Voracek 6-56 62
That's a wash, goals are worth more than assists.
Ghost had 51 points on Arizona, but played 22 minutes, on Philly, more like 30-40 points.
Add one more starter if you can find the cap room.
So we're not talking a jump from 61 to 91 points.

Of course keeping them would make a difference. Better players make teams better.


Failing to address underlying problems, that was his job. He failed at his job.

Team did not need a miracle worker. It needed basic competence. Fletcher has never provided that.

Failing to address underlying problems was the fault of the FO.
Had Fletcher said he was rebuilding, he would have been gone.

 

[Hanover Fist]

Chuck The word from the top is to build a team to compete now. Chuck hits intercom button and says Sally get me Nate Thompson’s agent on the phone please

 

[Beef Invictus]

How much of a difference?
Atkinson 23-27 50
Voracek 6-56 62
That's a wash, goals are worth more than assists.
Ghost had 51 points on Arizona, but played 22 minutes, on Philly, more like 30-40 points.
Add one more starter if you can find the cap room.
So we're not talking a jump from 61 to 91 points.


Failing to address underlying problems was the fault of the FO.
Had Fletcher said he was rebuilding, he would have been gone.

You know how poor an analysis that was. You also know you are not capable of being objective about either Ghost or Voracek.

The FO told him to win. If addressing underlying problems wins, they'd allow that. That was his mandate, right? The guy had no plan. Ever. Not in Philly, not in Minnesota. He has never lacked for resources or support and never lacked for failure. He is no tragic martyr or victim, he's a drunk clown who fell face first into elephant dung during the act.


And while we are at it, that entire management group you insist held him back? They're all still here. Nothing has changed. Per your telling, all that remains is the elements that held him back, and you religiously defend them too.

Nothing about your positions adds up. It's all contradictory. You know what isn't contradictory? The truth.

The truth is as follows:

-Hextall did not pander to Alumni. He was fired.
-Clarke's protege was brought in as someone who shared their outlook.
-He pursued their shared outlook. He failed.
-He was scapegoated and hauled out; along with Scott, who was so aloof he couldn't name any players aside from anyone who had been named by others before he talked, and he was replaced with a weak sycophant who idolizes The Incompetents, instead of merely letting them run free he praises them as they do so.
-The next gm who shares the outlook of upper management is in place, along with everyone else who shared it before. Nothing has changed. Nobody has substantially paid for these failures. The team remains on the exact same path it has been on since Hextall was fired. They have the same results because they're doing the same things on repeat.

Straightforward. Simple. Does not require convoluted and overwrought contradictions and unproveable weird fantasies about what you wish had happened. Is supported by all info revealed, lines up with their actions, and doesn't begin collapsing immediately upon any critical thought, unlike your version.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Using the theory that the league never gets player evaluations wrong collectively, can we then say Chuck Fletcher is a bad GM since he doesn't have a GM job?

 

[freakydallas13]

Ghost had 51 points on Arizona, but played 22 minutes, on Philly, more like 30-40 points.

"Trading Ghost wouldn't have made a difference because if the Flyers kept him they would have been to stupid to play him properly" is definitely one way to try and defend this team.

Not the way I would go about it, but you do you.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"Trading Ghost wouldn't have made a difference because if the Flyers kept him they would have been to stupid to play him properly" is definitely one way to try and defend this team.

Not the way I would go about it, but you do you.

"Arizona did a better job than we did" is not the best defense of management, but it is meant as one somehow. Got clowned by a team that played on a frozen YMCA pool, but that's good

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What I got from the last few pages is that Keith Jones drafted Michkov. I hope I understand now.

You really think Fletcher hired AV? You think Fletcher could approve a 5x5 contract?

Did he escape from a maze first then? Where the hell could this possibly be going?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

We’re a couple of pages away from learning it was actually Paul Holmgren as the master mind behind the JFK assassination.

 

[ajgoal]

@Striiker don't kill me, but although I loved Ghost, there was absolutely a scenario where trading him made sense.

-that trade, made to appease a lame-duck coach who'd tanked his value, wasn't it.
-If the Flyers were rebuilding, trading him for positive assets would be perfectly reasonable.
-the Flyers weren't rebuilding, as evidenced by their immediate spending of assets on Ristolainen, followed by their signing him to a long extension.
-downgrading at the cost of assets and future flexibility is neither an intelligent rebuild OR go for it move.

We’re a couple of pages away from learning it was actually Paul Holmgren as the master mind behind the JFK assassination.

You didn't know that? He also was behind the moon landing hoax.

 

[VladDrag]

We’re a couple of pages away from learning it was actually Paul Holmgren as the master mind behind the JFK assassination.

When it gets like this I just check out.

 

[Striiker]

@Striiker don't kill me, but although I loved Ghost, there was absolutely a scenario where trading him made sense.

-that trade, made to appease a lame-duck coach who'd tanked his value, wasn't it.
-If the Flyers were rebuilding, trading him for positive assets would be perfectly reasonable.
-the Flyers weren't rebuilding, as evidenced by their immediate spending of assets on Ristolainen, followed by their signing him to a long extension.
-downgrading at the cost of assets and future flexibility is neither an intelligent rebuild OR go for it move.

I don’t hate you (well I do, but not for this) because I said the same thing.

I was glad Giroux and Ghost got traded because it was clear the team was nose diving into irrelevancy and both deserved better. I wanted to see them freed of this hell hole of an org and ungrateful fanbase.

What made me mad was that the nose dive was easily avoidable and both would/should have played their entire careers here.

 

[ajgoal]

I don’t hate you (well I do, but not for this)

I don't deserve that. I've always not been nice to you.

 

[deadhead]

The truth is as follows:

-Hextall did not pander to Alumni. He was fired.
-Clarke's protege was brought in as someone who shared their outlook.
-He pursued their shared outlook. He failed.
-He was scapegoated and hauled out; along with Scott, who was so aloof he couldn't name any players aside from anyone who had been named by others before he talked, and he was replaced with a weak sycophant who idolizes The Incompetents, instead of merely letting them run free he praises them as they do so.
-The next gm who shares the outlook of upper management is in place, along with everyone else who shared it before. Nothing has changed. Nobody has substantially paid for these failures. The team remains on the exact same path it has been on since Hextall was fired. They have the same results because they're doing the same things on repeat.

What upper management?

Hilferty replaced Scott, he wasn't part of Comcast.
Jones replaced Holmgren/CF as President, he played most of his career outside of Philly and was a national as well as local broadcaster.
Briere spent 6 of his 17 year career in Philly, was President/GM of Maine, an affiliate of the Rangers and Bruins. Was a protege of a Comcast executive.

Have you heard anything from any of the "advisors?"
Nope. They could be dead for all the influence they have.

For good or evil, there is no "upper management" outside of the current group.
Comcast senior executives have nothing to do with the Flyers, they're just another subsidiary.
Conspiracy theories are just that, fodder for the paranoid.

 

[deadhead]

"Trading Ghost wouldn't have made a difference because if the Flyers kept him they would have been to stupid to play him properly" is definitely one way to try and defend this team.

Not the way I would go about it, but you do you.

He wasn't going to play ahead of Provorov and Sanheim, especially with his two bad knees.
In Arizona, Stralman was on the first pair with him, which shows you how desperate they were!

 

[Beef Invictus]

What upper management?

Hilferty replaced Scott, he wasn't part of Comcast.

Every single indication is that Hilferty represents zero change. He has gone out of his way to show this

Jones replaced Holmgren/CF as President, he played most of his career outside of Philly and was a national as well as local broadcaster.

Flyers employee who was so ridiculously plugged in that there's no way he wasn't a de facto advisor. He used STG as a personal mouthpiece to selectively leak stories. Inside promotion. Represents zero change.

Briere spent 6 of his 17 year career in Philly, was President/GM of Maine, an affiliate of the Rangers and Bruins. Was a protege of a Comcast executive.

Comcast Spectacor Employee given the job by Paul Holmgren, your eternal Boogeyman.

Have you heard anything from any of the "advisors?"
Nope. They could be dead for all the influence they have.

They show up all over the place at events. Their fingerprints and preferences appear all over. They don't need to scream from the rooftops to be influential. Your "agent of unchange" Hilferty assured us those "Foundational Titans" would remain involved, and he considers that good.

For good or evil, there is no "upper management" outside of the current group.

Of course there is. How ridiculous. By the way, the current group is also the last group. You know, the group that you spent all day accidentally pegging as failures

Comcast senior executives have nothing to do with the Flyers, they're just another subsidiary.
Conspiracy theories are just that, fodder for the paranoid.

They literally do. They own the team. Their employees run the team. Every one of them works for Concast. I bet all their work emails live somewhere on internal Comcast domains, just like Maine.

Defending this team requires the equivalent of insisting the sky is neon green. That's what you're doing with this. Insisting obvious facts are false. You should consider that nothing requiring this amount of falsification is worth defending

 

[Beef Invictus]

Do you even know who the head of Comcast Spectacor even is? Are you under the impression there is some layer of insulation between the Flyers and CS, and therefore no link to Maine?

 

[freakydallas13]

He wasn't going to play ahead of Provorov and Sanheim, especially with his two bad knees.
In Arizona, Stralman was on the first pair with him, which shows you how desperate they were!

Again, pointing out this team would have been to stupid to use ghost properly isn't the slam dunk you think it is.

 

[deadhead]

Do you even know who the head of Comcast Spectacor even is? Are you under the impression there is some layer of insulation between the Flyers and CS, and therefore no link to Maine?

Comcast Corporation
186,000 employees
net worth $163 billion, enterprise value $256 billion

Somehow I don't think senior executives give much thought to the Flyers.