Prospect Info: #8OA, Marco Kasper

[newfy]

What I am reading he is good at everything, but elite and none. He was 17 a few months ago and he's a prospect. Being he is a hard worker, he could find an elite niche to go along with good at everything. Yzerman said he has underrated skill. This feels like a Seider situation all over again.

I think his competitiveness/effort level should definitely be considered elite. I think his skating and physicality would be considered very high end and I think by the time hes in the league they could be elite as well

And McKenzie notably mentioned at least one scout had Kasper at 5.

Pronman actually said in his final mock draft that Kasper was in play all the way up at number 2 for Jersey

"One name I’ve also been told not to rule out with New Jersey at No. 2 is Marco Kasper."

 

[TheOctopusKid]

What you are absolutely getting with this kid:

Maturity and Poise
Relishes and Thrives Defensively
Versatility and ability to play in all situations
High Hockey IQ
Astronomically high Compete and Effort
Can Finish and Score from in Close and Hit a One-Timer
Is hard to play against
Physical and can and does use the body
Will mix it up after the whistle

Those are all generally consensus opinions across all scouting reports - like all of them. These are things literally I've seen for over a decade on these boards complaining about our prospects/players missing these things and he had them all in spades. We have an awesome prospect. This should be really exciting.

The dissent seems to stem from concern over his offensive ceiling? Outside of the confidence I have that literally every Red Wing Front Office Member has been watching this kid for almost three years non-stop and Steve's quote was literally "he has underrated skill" "...we drafted him as a center" "we believe he'll play in our top six one day"... I don't think there are concerns about his ceiling if that's basically exactly what Steve said.

There are more than one type of Superstar Centers in this league - and I'm happy to have a Bergeron as equally as I am having a McKinnon. He may not be a 120 point Kucherov or McKinnon; but what's wrong being a non-flashy Zetterberg, no-nonsense shutdown C who rises to the competition, is a near ppg but plays killer defense and does whatever the team needs him to do that given night to win the game?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Might not end up with the most points, but he will be a player that other teams fans are jealous of within the next 3 years.

@#8 pick? Not scoring points? So a two way center that doesn't score like who Draper?

 

[MTU hockey]

I don't understand the hate for this pick. SY had a group of Savoie, Kasper, Kemmell, Lekkermaki, and Nazar among other names to choose from and he got the guy he wanted. Yzerman deserves the benefit of the doubt here. I hate to be the guy to appeal to authority but it's hard to argue with his top picks since he's been back in Detroit.

 

[jfrank21]

Some rambling thoughts here:

I like Kasper. I don't quite believe in his ability to generate as offense as much as some of this board seems to. I can see it coming along, but I do think he has a different pedigree in that regard than Raymond and Seider, who imo had shown more dominant offensive performances at the U20 and international level (although, in his defense, COVID limited international opportunities a bit, and Austria isn't a super deep team). I see some goods signs, but I think folks might be slightly underestimating how tough it is to produce 40+ points in this league. I'm rooting for him.

Offense aside, a ton of projectable ability in his game. Very easy kid to root for in that sense. I think there was some pretty enticing talent left on the board when we grabbed him, but I still had a top 10 grade on the player. I definitely believe in his ability to be an effective NHLer.

One interesting thing to note: this was Yzerman's fifth 1st round selection in his four years as our GM, and all five guys were at least average to above average defensively.

1. Seider - is Seider
2. Raymond - solid two-way winger
3. Edvinsson - mobile, rangey blueliner
4. Cossa - is a goalie
5. Kasper - competitive two-way center.

"Tough to play against" can start to sound like a meme at times, but it's pretty evident that Yzerman, Draper, Lalonde, and Co. place a premium on players who compete hard in all three zones. I have some concerns about our long-term ability to score at a high level, but we should definitely start to see this team playing better defense over the next few years.

Watch his game against the US in the World Championships and try to tell me that there isn't some offense in there. And I'm not being snarky with you...I mean, listen to Stevie's interview after the pick. "We think he has some untapped offensive potential. Whether it's this year or next year, we think he can be a top 6 center for our team in the future."

I mean, I can't believe there is even any questioning of this pick. Our brain trust has crushed the top of the draft the past 3 years. This kid has the seal of approval from everyone, including some of our brain trusts most successful picks. If my idiot ass can see how much of a slam dunk this is, then anyone should be able to. I do know that a 5'8" center or 5'9 winger was not what this team needed. Tired of watching them get man handled out there.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Some rambling thoughts here:

I like Kasper. I don't quite believe in his ability to generate as offense as much as some of this board seems to. I can see it coming along, but I do think he has a different pedigree in that regard than Raymond and Seider, who imo had shown more dominant offensive performances at the U20 and international level (although, in his defense, COVID limited international opportunities a bit, and Austria isn't a super deep team). I see some goods signs, but I think folks might be slightly underestimating how tough it is to produce 40+ points in this league. I'm rooting for him.

Offense aside, a ton of projectable ability in his game. Very easy kid to root for in that sense. I think there was some pretty enticing talent left on the board when we grabbed him, but I still had a top 10 grade on the player. I definitely believe in his ability to be an effective NHLer.

One interesting thing to note: this was Yzerman's fifth 1st round selection in his four years as our GM, and all five guys were at least average to above average defensively.

1. Seider - is Seider
2. Raymond - solid two-way winger
3. Edvinsson - mobile, rangey blueliner
4. Cossa - is a goalie
5. Kasper - competitive two-way center.

"Tough to play against" can start to sound like a meme at times, but it's pretty evident that Yzerman, Draper, Lalonde, and Co. place a premium on players who compete hard in all three zones. I have some concerns about our long-term ability to score at a high level, but we should definitely start to see this team playing better defense over the next few years.

‘Tough to play against’ to me means hyper competitive, doesn’t take a shift off and is a leader on the ice.

Seider was captain of the German WJC team and we’re going to see him wear a letter for the wings in the future.
Edvinsson was alternate captain at the WJC for sweden. Probably should be captain.
Kasper was captain of Austria at the WJC.
Raymond should have been given a letter at the 2021 Wjc.
Cossa also seems like someone that would be a leader on his team.

These guys are all super coachable players. The kinds of guys who will adapt their games to win.

 

[Dotter]

Watch his game against the US in the World Championships and try to tell me that there isn't some offense in there. And I'm not being snarky with you...I mean, listen to Stevie's interview after the pick. "We think he has some untapped offensive potential. Whether it's this year or next year, we think he can be a top 6 center for our team in the future."

I mean, I can't believe there is even any questioning of this pick. Our brain trust has crushed the top of the draft the past 3 years. This kid has the seal of approval from everyone, including some of our brain trusts most successful picks. If my idiot ass can see how much of a slam dunk this is, then anyone should be able to. I do know that a 5'8" center or 5'9 winger was not what this team needed. Tired of watching them get man handled out there.

in fairness, Stevie didn't say he has untapped offensive potential, he specifically said he has underrated skill.

 

[jfrank21]

in fairness, Stevie didn't say he has untapped offensive potential, he specifically said he has underrated skill.

Yeah, but thats basically po tay toe/ po tah toe at this point. He flashed his skill and offensive potential in the playoffs and at the Worlds, which is what Stevie was referring to. But you're right, I blew it with the quote!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

What you are absolutely getting with this kid:

Maturity and Poise
Relishes and Thrives Defensively
Versatility and ability to play in all situations
High Hockey IQ
Astronomically high Compete and Effort
Can Finish and Score from in Close and Hit a One-Timer
Is hard to play against
Physical and can and does use the body
Will mix it up after the whistle

Those are all generally consensus opinions across all scouting reports - like all of them. These are things literally I've seen for over a decade on these boards complaining about our prospects/players missing these things and he had them all in spades. We have an awesome prospect. This should be really exciting.

The dissent seems to stem from concern over his offensive ceiling? Outside of the confidence I have that literally every Red Wing Front Office Member has been watching this kid for almost three years non-stop and Steve's quote was literally "he has underrated skill" "...we drafted him as a center" "we believe he'll play in our top six one day"... I don't think there are concerns about his ceiling if that's basically exactly what Steve said.

There are more than one type of Superstar Centers in this league - and I'm happy to have a Bergeron as equally as I am having a McKinnon. He may not be a 120 point Kucherov or McKinnon; but what's wrong being a non-flashy Zetterberg, no-nonsense shutdown C who rises to the competition, is a near ppg but plays killer defense and does whatever the team needs him to do that given night to win the game?

 

[Preposterone]

I think it’s worth pointing out that Kasper had very, very similar production to draft year Raymond while being almost exactly the same age. Not saying he has Raymond’s skill/finishing, but pro point totals need to be properly contextualized.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Watch his game against the US in the World Championships and try to tell me that there isn't some offense in there. And I'm not being snarky with you...I mean, listen to Stevie's interview after the pick. "We think he has some untapped offensive potential. Whether it's this year or next year, we think he can be a top 6 center for our team in the future."

Don't get me wrong I like Kasper, and I'm not suggesting he's like devoid of offense or anything. I personally think I'm just seeing it a notch down from where the more optimistic section of the board is. Like 30-40 points I can see, and I have zero problem with that value at #8 if he's bringing strong two-way play and transition ability. But when people talk about 50-60+ points, it gets tricky for me.

Like I see a lot of folks making the comparison to Raymond's SHL production, and to me that discounts the fact that Raymond showcased really high-end playmaking ability at the international and lower league levels. Kasper brings a lot to the table, but he doesn't really have that one stand-out attribute to go to the well to. I've got a lot of time for the argument that versatile players can generate offense effectively, but I just don't think I'm quite as confident in that higher-end projection as some of the board is.

I hope he gets there though, I think it's possible for sure.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Also don't sleep on the fact that Rogle trusted him in the playoffs as a 16 year old, this kid is a gamer

 

[golffuul]

Super happy with this pick and still a bit stunned that we got the guy I thought we should get. You can really feel the pieces all being put into place and that is such a great feeling as a Redwings fan.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I’d be tearing down walls to trade for Tkachuk if he were a center.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Super happy with this pick and still a bit stunned that we got the guy I thought we should get. You can really feel the pieces all being put into place and that is such a great feeling as a Redwings fan.

It really does feel like the right pick for Detroit this year.

Now that we’ve got Kasper I’ll warn you guys that I’m going to spam the forum about Leo Carlsson for the 2023 draft.

No bullshit, probably the best Swedish forward prospect since Backstrom. And he’s a 6’3” center.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Don't get me wrong I like Kasper, and I'm not suggesting he's like devoid of offense or anything. I personally think I'm just seeing it a notch down from where the more optimistic section of the board is. Like 30-40 points I can see, and I have zero problem with that value at #8 if he's bringing strong two-way play and transition ability. But when people talk about 50-60+ points, it gets tricky for me.

Like I see a lot of folks making the comparison to Raymond's SHL production, and to me that discounts the fact that Raymond showcased really high-end playmaking ability at the international and lower league levels. Kasper brings a lot to the table, but he doesn't really have that one stand-out attribute to go to the well to. I've got a lot of time for the argument that versatile players can generate offense effectively, but I just don't think I'm quite as confident in that higher-end projection as some of the board is.

I hope he gets there though, I think it's possible for sure.

“He’s a smart player,” said Abbott, who first met Kasper at the end of 2019. “Very smart. He competes really hard. … He’s not one to force his skill set on the team. He has a very selfless way of playing. When that is the case for whatever team he’s playing for – and he transported the puck more even for us this season – with his feet moving, his skill level is going to show even greater than I think it did this year. But that wasn’t what was going to get him in those positions and the ice time he was looking for in the way that we needed to win.

“I think the skill level is 100 percent there. In my opinion, the finish rate — and when he gets in those situations more, it’s going to show well.”

This is an interesting insight from his current coach - he hasn't shown it because he's doing what he needs to do to make the team successful, and what's being asked of him, is to support his teammates, and that's what's getting him ice time. Conversely, if he were playing a more offensively prominent role with the Wings with...Vrana? Who knows what that looks like

 

[Run the Jewels]

This is an interesting insight from his current coach - he hasn't shown it because he's doing what he needs to do to make the team successful, and what's being asked of him, is to support his teammates, and that's what's getting him ice time. Conversely, if he were playing a more offensively prominent role with the Wings with...Vrana? Who knows what that looks like

Similar things were said about Seider and even Johan Franzen back when he was drafted. Younger guys who are playing in very competitive leagues need to focus on defense and being sound positionally in order to get playing time.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

11points in 46 games sounds gross to me....

Raymond had 10 in 33 in the same league, the year he was drafted and doesn't provide the physical presence that Kasper does

 

[MBH]

Feels like Ondrej Palat/Zach Hyman more than elite talent.
Almost like a Larkin-type guy.
Hustle. IQ. Skating.
But the skill isn't quite there.

I think that's fine at 8OA.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Feels like Ondrej Palat/Zach Hyman more than elite talent.
Almost like a Larkin-type guy.
Hustle. IQ. Skating.
But the skill isn't quite there.

I think that's fine at 8OA.

Even when there’s guys that are still available that do have that 1st line potential?

 

[MBH]

From the EP guide
EP top prospect categories
6 scouts
Here are Kasper's rankings

Straight line skating - 2nd, 3rd. No mention by 4

4-way mobility - didn't make the top 5 on any lists.
Best motor - 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd. No mention by 1.
Overall- 1

Problem solving skills - no top 5 finishes

Best shot - no top 5 finishes.
Highest ceiling - no top 5 finishes.

Highest floor -, 4th, 5th. No mention by 4.
Overall - 4th

Best vision - 5th. No mention by 5.

Hardest hitter - 2nd, 3rd Nomention by 4.
Overall- 4th

Transition forward - 2nd. No Mention by 5.

2-way forward - 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd 5th. No mention by 1.
Overall 3rd

Power forward - 2nd, 2nd, 2nd
Overall - 3rd

Even when there’s guys that are still available that do have that 1st line potential?

Sometimes you want the sure thing.
Two days ago, i had Kasper over Nazar. Over the last 24 hours, I switched to Nazar. But I'm fine with Kasper.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

I agree with this, wholeheartedly. The goal is to be hard to play against. In the coming years, we will (hopefully) have a giant stud of a goalie, a huge, mobile, and skilled defense, and a very defensively conscious group of forwards. I expect guys like Raymond to take steps on offense so we should become VERY difficult to play against with guys like Kasper in the mix.

 

[ricky0034]

Even when there’s guys that are still available that do have that 1st line potential?

just philosophically speaking give me the guy that could be a top end guy but might bust entirely over the guy that will never be that but has say a 3rd line Center floor with a top 10 pick any day

ceiling is like a billion times more important to me than floor here, all stacking up guys like that will do is lead a team to purgatory

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Helene St. James has a world class annoying voice and demeanor lol.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

“He’s a smart player,” said Abbott, who first met Kasper at the end of 2019. “Very smart. He competes really hard. … He’s not one to force his skill set on the team. He has a very selfless way of playing. When that is the case for whatever team he’s playing for – and he transported the puck more even for us this season – with his feet moving, his skill level is going to show even greater than I think it did this year. But that wasn’t what was going to get him in those positions and the ice time he was looking for in the way that we needed to win.

“I think the skill level is 100 percent there. In my opinion, the finish rate — and when he gets in those situations more, it’s going to show well.”

This is an interesting insight from his current coach - he hasn't shown it because he's doing what he needs to do to make the team successful, and what's being asked of him, is to support his teammates, and that's what's getting him ice time. Conversely, if he were playing a more offensively prominent role with the Wings with...Vrana? Who knows what that looks like

I agree with everything here to be honest, I'm certainly not here to knock the Kasper selection at all.

In my first comment I was just putting out there that, on the spectrum of where this board sees his offense, I'm probably somewhere in the middle.