#87 Sidney Crosby Milestone Thread - History will be made (600 goals, 1600 points)

[DrDangles]

Sid breaks into the top 20 in goals passing Jari Kurri

 

[SEALBound]

Whats the record for 4pt games by a 37yo?

 

[orby]

Whats the record for 4pt games by a 37yo?

Lemieux had 5 in 02-03.

Mario Lemieux 2002-03 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Mario Lemieux for 2002-03

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[jigglysquishy]

Lemieux had 5 in 02-03.

Mario Lemieux 2002-03 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Mario Lemieux for 2002-03

www.hockey-reference.com

41 points in his first 20 games. At 37. During the DPE. Without Jagr.

 

[orby]

41 points in his first 20 games. At 37. During the DPE. Without Jagr.

Dude was on another level for sure. If not for his health issues he'd have challenged Gretzky's records...but then again, the adversity is a part of Mario's legend.

 

[Dessloch]

Such a shame Crosbys & Lemieux only season together only lasted a couple of games before Mario had to retire with a heart-condition! Sid would have had to chase Mario for a while longer had that not not happened. Just insane Mario would get that heart-condition after cancer & all the back problems! I can totally understand why Mario called it a day, its very stressful mentally to play with any heart condition and also of course affect you physically.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

41 points in his first 20 games. At 37. During the DPE. Without Jagr.

He was hovering around 2 points per game until about a third of the way through the season (55 points after 28 games).

He was playing on a line with Kovalev and Morozov until Morozov broke his wrist and was out the rest of the season after 27 games (25 points). Then they had a revolving door of trash usually playing next to Kovalev and Lemieux. Steve Mckenna was actually playing with them for a while, which explains his 9 goals which is half of his career total. McKenna actually scored the goal on Lemieux's 1000th career assist, in a 4 assist game for Lemieux.

Then Kovalev was sold for $4 million and a bunch of trash to New York, Lemieux had a lingering hip injury and was playing with horrible AHLers like Eric Meloche (5 goals in 13 games, only had 4 more goals in his other 61 career NHL games) and Guillaume Lefebvre (6 points in 12 games, he was scoreless in other 27 NHL games in his career).

Kovalev meanwhile had his production tank after going to New York (64 points in 54 games in Pittsburgh, 13 points in 24 games with the Rangers, although 10 of those were goals).

He still managed 91 points in 67 games that season. It was amazing to watch how he could still dominate while his speed was almost completely gone. He could deke out defenders while never even moving his legs, it was bizarre. It was like watching hockey's equivalent of an old Steven Seagal movie (he was a giant guy with jet-black hair and limited mobility, after all). Defensemen would seem to panic when he held onto the puck with a ridiculous amount of patience. They'd eventually rush towards him while he just pulled the puck back, they'd go by him/fall down then he fires a shot at the net/passes it off for a goal.

 

[WalterLundy]

41 points in his first 20 games. At 37. During the DPE. Without Jagr.

Had 73 in his first 44 games in a league with 2.65 goals per game. Crosby’s best was 66 points in 41 games in a 2.73 goals per game league. Was better per game than Crosby ever was as a broken 37 year old on a team of mostly garbage.

Era adjusted
Lemieux 03: 102 in 67 (1.52)
Crosby 07: 122 in 79 (1.54)

It’s really insane to see.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Had 73 in his first 44 games in a league with 2.65 goals per game. Crosby’s best was 66 points in 41 games in a 2.73 goals per game league. Was better per game than Crosby ever was as a broken 37 year old on a team of mostly garbage.

Era adjusted
Lemieux 03: 102 in 67 (1.52)
Crosby 07: 122 in 79 (1.54)

It’s really insane to see.

Love Lemieux obviously but he was a total liability at even strength at that point. Would take a prime Crosby comfortably over that version of Lemieux.

 

[v00d00daddy]

Amazing! Love em both

 

[TooManyHumans]

He was hovering around 2 points per game until about a third of the way through the season (55 points after 28 games).

He was playing on a line with Kovalev and Morozov until Morozov broke his wrist and was out the rest of the season after 27 games (25 points). Then they had a revolving door of trash usually playing next to Kovalev and Lemieux. Steve Mckenna was actually playing with them for a while, which explains his 9 goals which is half of his career total. McKenna actually scored the goal on Lemieux's 1000th career assist, in a 4 assist game for Lemieux.

Then Kovalev was sold for $4 million and a bunch of trash to New York, Lemieux had a lingering hip injury and was playing with horrible AHLers like Eric Meloche (5 goals in 13 games, only had 4 more goals in his other 61 career NHL games) and Guillaume Lefebvre (6 points in 12 games, he was scoreless in other 27 NHL games in his career).

Kovalev meanwhile had his production tank after going to New York (64 points in 54 games in Pittsburgh, 13 points in 24 games with the Rangers, although 10 of those were goals).

He still managed 91 points in 67 games that season. It was amazing to watch how he could still dominate while his speed was almost completely gone. He could deke out defenders while never even moving his legs, it was bizarre. It was like watching hockey's equivalent of an old Steven Seagal movie (he was a giant guy with jet-black hair and limited mobility, after all). Defensemen would seem to panic when he held onto the puck with a ridiculous amount of patience. They'd eventually rush towards him while he just pulled the puck back, they'd go by him/fall down then he fires a shot at the net/passes it off for a goal.

I thought it always looked like Lemieux had an invisible bubble around him that slowed everyone else down when they entered it. He somehow never looked like he was hurrying and yet was faster and quicker than the people trying to stop him. He is probably the most incredible talent I have ever seen in person.

 

[v00d00daddy]

I thought it always looked like Lemieux had an invisible bubble around him that slowed everyone else down when they entered it. He somehow never looked like he was hurrying and yet was faster and quicker than the people trying to stop him. He is probably the most incredible talent I have ever seen in person.

Same here. He was a perfect example of “you just gotta see it”. He played in a way that no stats, good or bad, could ever fully describe how the game looked when he was on the ice. My fave ever and for Pens fans to get him and Crosby is amazing.

 

[WalterLundy]

Love Lemieux obviously but he was a total liability at even strength at that point. Would take a prime Crosby comfortably over that version of Lemieux.

In terms of pure point production it is still true though. I was just using Crosby at his best to show how insane his level of play was for a 37 year old. Also I wouldn’t call Lemieux an even strength liability as he was still 7th in the league for even strength ppg that year. Lemieux always was heavily dependent on powerplay production for his big seasons. 1993 is a special case where his even strength level was only bested by the Gretzky prime years but all of the other big seasons (1988, 1989 and 1996) were massively powerplay driven just like 2003 was for him.

 

[wetcoast]

Had 73 in his first 44 games in a league with 2.65 goals per game. Crosby’s best was 66 points in 41 games in a 2.73 goals per game league. Was better per game than Crosby ever was as a broken 37 year old on a team of mostly garbage.

Era adjusted
Lemieux 03: 102 in 67 (1.52)
Crosby 07: 122 in 79 (1.54)

It’s really insane to see.

Mario was probably the most gifted offensive player of all time but let's not pretend that he was only out there to score points and wasn't doing anything aside from that.

Sure he was on bad teams but watching him play, he wasn't tilting the ice nearly as much as some people might think.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

In terms of pure point production it is still true though. I was just using Crosby at his best to show how insane his level of play was for a 37 year old. Also I wouldn’t call Lemieux an even strength liability as he was still 7th in the league for even strength ppg that year. Lemieux always was heavily dependent on powerplay production for his big seasons. 1993 is a special case where his even strength level was only bested by the Gretzky prime years but all of the other big seasons (1988, 1989 and 1996) were massively powerplay driven just like 2003 was for him.

He was a liability unfortunately. Had an eye watering -25 that year, 2nd worst on the team despite playing 67 games. It wasn't like in his prime where despite dominating on the pp he also dominated at even strength - he was bleeding goals against at even strength. My point is Crosby was a far superior player than that version of Lemieux.

 

[SEALBound]

He was a liability unfortunately. Had an eye watering -25 that year, 2nd worst on the team despite playing 67 games. It wasn't like in his prime where despite dominating on the pp he also dominated at even strength - he was bleeding goals against at even strength. My point is Crosby was a far superior player than that version of Lemieux.

Yes and no. I will agree that at that point in his career, Lemieux wasn't the defensive stahlwart he maybe once was. That said, that 02-03 team was flat out terrible. The team defense was horribad and goalies were career "rented mules". IIRC, it was Aubin, Caron for a bit, and Hedberg and I think they all split time evenly. I remember Tarnstrom and McKenna on defense but I can't recall anyone else off the top of my head. Their goal differential was bottom 5 in the league. So it wasn't just Lemieux being a liability late in his career, it was also the team just flat out sucking.

This isn't directed at you - but I think people lose perspective now-a-days on just how bad some of the pre-lockout teams were. Honestly, the Preds, Hawks, Ducks of today could have smoked the Penguins in 02-03. At least with the CBA in place, even bad teams can put a decent product on the ice.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yes and no. I will agree that at that point in his career, Lemieux wasn't the defensive stahlwart he maybe once was. That said, that 02-03 team was flat out terrible. The team defense was horribad and goalies were career "rented mules". IIRC, it was Aubin, Caron for a bit, and Hedberg and I think they all split time evenly. I remember Tarnstrom and McKenna on defense but I can't recall anyone else off the top of my head. Their goal differential was bottom 5 in the league. So it wasn't just Lemieux being a liability late in his career, it was also the team just flat out sucking.

This isn't directed at you - but I think people lose perspective now-a-days on just how bad some of the pre-lockout teams were. Honestly, the Preds, Hawks, Ducks of today could have smoked the Penguins in 02-03. At least with the CBA in place, even bad teams can put a decent product on the ice.

Oh for sure, terrible team. And at 37 it was still no doubt crazy impressive what he did. But also obvious that prime Crosby was a significantly better player.

 

[WalterLundy]

He was a liability unfortunately. Had an eye watering -25 that year, 2nd worst on the team despite playing 67 games. It wasn't like in his prime where despite dominating on the pp he also dominated at even strength - he was bleeding goals against at even strength. My point is Crosby was a far superior player than that version of Lemieux.

That’s a fair point. Mine was just that as a point producer in 03 he was comparable if not better than any Crosby iteration. No matter how the points came as well they all count the same although even strength to me is more impressive and important. If taken in their totality it’s peak Crosby significantly so I don’t actually have a disagreement with you to be honest. One of Lemieux’s issues was bleeding goals at times with 89 and 93 taken out of the equation. In 1996 he was 10th on his own team in +/- with a +10 while scoring 161 points. This team was averaging 5 goals per game for the first half of the season like the mid 80s oilers and still only a +10.

My point was that Lemieux’s ability to do what he did at 37 was insanely impressive purely offensively. His video game numbers in his prime were second only to Gretzky’s in league history and what he did in 03 at 37 proves he would have been able to hit a 150-170 range per season in his prime in any era.

 

[wetcoast]

Yes and no. I will agree that at that point in his career, Lemieux wasn't the defensive stahlwart he maybe once was. That said, that 02-03 team was flat out terrible. The team defense was horribad and goalies were career "rented mules". IIRC, it was Aubin, Caron for a bit, and Hedberg and I think they all split time evenly. I remember Tarnstrom and McKenna on defense but I can't recall anyone else off the top of my head. Their goal differential was bottom 5 in the league. So it wasn't just Lemieux being a liability late in his career, it was also the team just flat out sucking.

This isn't directed at you - but I think people lose perspective now-a-days on just how bad some of the pre-lockout teams were. Honestly, the Preds, Hawks, Ducks of today could have smoked the Penguins in 02-03. At least with the CBA in place, even bad teams can put a decent product on the ice.

The thing is that we see this throughout Marios career, even in his prime 95-96 he simply didn't care enough about the defensive side of the game for most of his career and he was the face of the franchise.