Post-Game Talk: 8 Years, $92 Million

[Machinehead]

Wake me up when we ever have any forwards with great repeatable playoff talent, because Igor has been good enough in the last few years to get us far in the playoffs, but offense, defense, and generally just how to play hockey is something that eludes this team and Igor winds up having to face triple the shots of our opponents.

This is my opinion, but we need Igor for the playoffs. Period. We have proof in the Avalanche that you can have a team that scores 3-6 goals a game and then have an AHL goalie that can't ever hold his own in Geo, and you go absolutely nowhere. No amount of offensive firepower can make up for bad goaltending and it sure as hell wouldn't work for us with the kind of defense we run. So paying Igor less would probably do nothing. Low ball him and he walks and the 40 year old becomes our starter.

Again, we're running face-first into the point here.

The teams with great forward talent are the teams winning ALL of the Cups.

"We need Igor because we don't have forwards like that!" Get forwards like that.

 

[ReddestRum]

Again, we're running face-first into the point here.

The teams with great forward talent are the teams winning ALL of the Cups.

"We need Igor because we don't have forwards like that!" Get forwards like that.

I literally gave you an example like that in the Avs. No amount of offense is going to get you anywhere in the playoffs without a sound defensive scheme AND an NHL level goalie that can steal you one / two games, which Igor literally did against Carolina and Florida.

Igor has shown that he can steal games, but some of you guys want him to f***ing steal every, single, game. Every goal that goes by him whether it's a snipe, impossible to stop tip, or one-timer that other teams can do but we can't is somehow supposed to be stopped because Igor asked for a number and got it. At some point our forward have got to have his back as much as he has to have ours, and the 3rd period and OT last night was out team hanging him out to dry.

Oh yeah, and only cashing in 2 of the 8 breakaways we absolutely flubbed last night. Not a single Ranger fan around my area said anything about Igor giving up those goals. What they DID say is something along the lines of us feeling like we turtled the third period, a yawning PP effort in OT, and a certain 1OA missing a wide open net.

But, you know... Igor. Because monies.

 

[Machinehead]

I literally gave you an example like that in the Avs. No amount of offense is going to get you anywhere in the playoffs without a sound defensive scheme AND an NHL level goalie that can steal you one / two games, which Igor literally did against Carolina and Florida.

Igor has shown that he can steal games, but some of you guys want him to f***ing steal every, single, game. Every goal that goes by him whether it's a snipe, impossible to stop tip, or one-timer that other teams can do but we can't is somehow supposed to be stopped because Igor asked for a number and got it. At some point our forward have got to have his back as much as he has to have ours, and the 3rd period and OT last night was out team hanging him out to dry.

Oh yeah, and only cashing in 2 of the 8 breakaways we absolutely flubbed last night. Not a single Ranger fan around my area said anything about Igor giving up those goals. What they DID say is something along the lines of us feeling like we turtled the third period, a yawning PP effort in OT, and a certain 1OA missing a wide open net.

But, you know... Igor. Because monies.

Good example.

 

[Machinehead]

Multiple decades of watching the Rangers has gaslit Rangers fans into thinking goaltending is sacrosanct. "Build from the net out."

Literally only the garbage ass Rangers build from the net out. Everyone else puts a core together first and then worries about it.

"Ah hell, Hank/Igor will make 40 saves" is a big reason we're so inept at every other aspect of the game. It's another absolutely horrible part of this team's culture.

 

[ReddestRum]

View attachment 961615

Good example.

Kemper was 37-12 with a 2.5 GAA. They had a sick scorers and a goalie that could hold his own.

Now take that scoring team and then put Georgiev in net and tell me with certainty that they win the cup with a mid dude like Geo.

 

[Machinehead]

Kemper was 37-12 with a 2.5 GAA. They had a sick scorers and a goalie that could hold his own.

Now take that scoring team and then put Georgiev in net and tell me with certainty that they win the cup with a mid dude like Geo.

Look at his stats in the playoffs. -2.1 goals saved. The Avalanche won the Cup with an active detriment in goal.

You keep bringing up Georgiev. Yeah, don't have literally the worst starter in the league. Who is suggesting that?

 

[Machinehead]

This conversation was over when the Penguins called up @Tob and he won them back to back Cups. Rest in peace goaltending. 1890-2017. Gone but not forgotten.

"But but but they had Mosby and Cralkin!!!!"

Yes. Get players like that. Then do goaltending last.

 

[ReddestRum]

Look at his stats in the playoffs. -2.1 goals saved. The Avalanche won the Cup with an active detriment in goal.

You keep bringing up Georgiev. Yeah, don't have literally the worst starter in the league. Who is suggesting that?

I don't think that's a detriment when you can score goals, but ultimately we're talking about the Rangers here and for all intents and purposes it's all a moot point.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think that's a detriment when you can score goals, but ultimately we're talking about the Rangers here and for all intents and purposes it's all a moot point.

Your example of a core that's struggling because of goaltending is one that won the Stanley Cup already.

You have made my argument for me.

 

[NYR Sting]

Again, we're running face-first into the point here.

The teams with great forward talent are the teams winning ALL of the Cups.

"We need Igor because we don't have forwards like that!" Get forwards like that.

I totally agree with you on almost everything you said here. The most important part of building a Cup-contending team is having an elite #1 center, additional strength down the middle and a legit #1 defenseman who is at least elite offensively, if not at both ends of the ice. Goaltending is not near the top of the list.

Where I disagree with you is the last part. For all intents and purposes, the only way to "get forwards like that" is to draft them. Elite #1 centers almost never get traded (at least not while they are still truly elite), and they don't typically hit free agency, either.

If the season had ended 2 weeks ago, this team would have been in line to draft 5th.

I bet if you move Zib, Kreider, Panarin, Miller, and maybe even Trocheck (the only one I'd really be sad about losing), this team would have a chance at a top 5 pick, even with Shesterkin and Fox still on board. And if you add in Fox to the list above, it only gets even likelier.

Point is, you can tank and keep Shesterkin. And if you're tanking, you'll have plenty of cap space, anyway. Just, you know, actually tank instead of trying to foolishly compete like the Rangers did in the early Henrik years, when they should have kept building instead of signing washed up veterans or backing up the Brinks truck for 2nd and 3rd liners and expecting them to be 1st line stars.

Shesterkin and his contract aren't standing in the way of the opportunity to draft a franchise center. The foolish belief that this team and it's core could be - or ever was - a legit Cup contender is. Trade all these already or soon-to-be washed up "stars", keep your world class goaltender, and get a couple of high draft picks. Try not to f*** these up the way you did the last 4.

 

[will1066]

As general manager, I'm implementing the Rod Tidwell Rule. No player makes more than 4 years/$11.2M. --@mas0764

 

[chosen]

There isn’t a player on this roster that I give a shit about. Trade them all.

Please don't trade Edstrom.

 

[chosen]

He needs the Kakko off-season regiment.

Is that the same Kakko with 9 points in his last 10 games?

 

[Machinehead]

I totally agree with you on almost everything you said here. The most important part of building a Cup-contending team is having an elite #1 center, additional strength down the middle and a legit #1 defenseman who is at least elite offensively, if not at both ends of the ice. Goaltending is not near the top of the list.

Where I disagree with you is the last part. For all intents and purposes, the only way to "get forwards like that" is to draft them. Elite #1 centers almost never get traded (at least not while they are still truly elite), and they don't typically hit free agency, either.

If the season had ended 2 weeks ago, this team would have been in line to draft 5th.

I bet if you move Zib, Kreider, Panarin, Miller, and maybe even Trocheck (the only one I'd really be sad about losing), this team would have a chance at a top 5 pick, even with Shesterkin and Fox still on board. And if you add in Fox to the list above, it only gets even likelier.

Point is, you can tank and keep Shesterkin. And if you're tanking, you'll have plenty of cap space, anyway. Just, you know, actually tank instead of trying to foolishly compete like the Rangers did in the early Henrik years, when they should have kept building instead of signing washed up veterans or backing up the Brinks truck for 2nd and 3rd liners and expecting them to be 1st line stars.

Shesterkin and his contract aren't standing in the way of the opportunity to draft a franchise center. The foolish belief that this team and it's core could be - or ever was - a legit Cup contender is. Trade all these already or soon-to-be washed up "stars", keep your world class goaltender, and get a couple of high draft picks. Try not to f*** these up the way you did the last 4.

Point was 79th overall. Rossi was 9th. Aho was 35th. These are good enough centers to win the Cup with. Giroux, back in his prime, was good enough, he was 22nd. It is possible.

Yes, picking top 5 is the most likely, by far. But what can you do? It's hard to be that bad just like it's hard to win the Cup.

I agree that I wouldn't do anything to get better this year or next year.

 

[NYR Sting]

Point was 79th overall. Rossi was 9th. Aho was 35th. These are good enough centers to win the Cup with. Giroux, back in his prime, was good enough, he was 22nd. It is possible.

Yes, picking top 5 is the most likely, by far. But what can you do? It's hard to be that bad just like it's hard to win the Cup.

I agree that I wouldn't do anything to get better this year or next year.

It certainly is possible. Datsyuk, 6th round. Zetterberg, 7th round.

But, like you said, it isn't very likely. Banking on drafting a franchise center in the 2nd or later rounds doesn't seem like a very logical strategy. If it happens, if you're one of the lucky few...you hit the jackpot, and it can completely change the trajectory of your franchise. But if you really need an elite #1 center (and this team basically hasn't had one in just about 30 years), maybe it's time to commit to the most proven means and methods. Certainly, there's no guarantees with tanking - our own recent high picks are certainly proof of that. But there isn't any other path that is anywhere near as historically successful.

Quick, list every Cup-winning team in those same 30 years since the Rangers last had a legitimate elite #1 center (funny coincidence, also the last time this team won a Cup) that won without a bonafide #1C. It won't be a very long list.

Apparently, Sam's trademark line doesn't just apply to Cups, it applies to #1 Centers, too.

 

[mike14]

Is that the same Kakko with 9 points in his last 10 games?

yes, but not sure if it's the same guy who has 140 points in his last 342 games...

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

It certainly is possible. Datsyuk, 6th round. Zetterberg, 7th round.

But, like you said, it isn't very likely. Banking on drafting a franchise center in the 2nd or later rounds doesn't seem like a very logical strategy. If it happens, if you're one of the lucky few...you hit the jackpot, and it can completely change the trajectory of your franchise. But if you really need an elite #1 center (and this team basically hasn't had one in just about 30 years), maybe it's time to commit to the most proven means and methods. Certainly, there's no guarantees with tanking - our own recent high picks are certainly proof of that. But there isn't any other path that is anywhere near as historically successful.

Quick, list every Cup-winning team in those same 30 years since the Rangers last had a legitimate elite #1 center (funny coincidence, also the last time this team won a Cup) that won without a bonafide #1C. It won't be a very long list.

Apparently, Sam's trademark line doesn't just apply to Cups, it applies to #1 Centers, too.

And an even less logical strategy for NYR. I’m pretty sure they went an entire decade with the only players drafted after round 1 to play 20+ games for the team were Buch and Jones

 

[mike14]

And an even less logical strategy for NYR. I’m pretty sure they went an entire decade with the only players drafted after round 1 to play 20+ games for the team were Buch and Jones

that doesn't sound right. If nothing else, Edtsrom is the same draft as Jones and has over 20 games...
Before that you had Barron (may not have quite reached 20 here, but he was our pick and still playing NHL), Shesty, and Duclair in the Buch draft.
Then before that we went through a period where we could only find NHLers outside of the 1st round (stepan, Fast, Haeglein, Anisimov, Dubi, Cally etc)