Cates was a healthy scratch for 4 of 8 games so far, and he was supposed to be a "Tort's favorite."
I think the problem with Frost is simple, he's less than the sum of his parts.
When it comes to Frost overall, I do think there was a time 3-5 years ago where, if he didn't have injuries, and was given equal development time as others such as Cates and Tippett, he could have been a low-end 1C.
He's gotten better on defense, but it's less instincts and more playing it safe.
Who cares, if the net result is having the opposition in your defensive end less than when they are in it? There is a difference between being good in your own end vs having good defensive metrics. Obviously, you want both, but it's been proven the best way to defend is to keep the opposition out of your end in the first place.
He's worked to get stronger, but he still can't play in the dirty areas effectively, compare to TK who is smaller. Michkov is smaller, but can play in crowds and control the puck (Brink also struggles here) like a much bigger player.
Two things in response here:
1) I don't know what you mean, specifically, when you say dirty areas. Do you mean, in front of the net? Do you mean board battles? Do you mean defensive zone play?
2) TK is a legit top line winger and Michkov is trending to be one of the elite players in the league. Frost and Brink don't have to be either one of those players to be effective secondary scorers.
He's a good passer, but isn't really a play driver, he's best in open ice using his speed, better on the PP where he has more room, but 5x5 it always seems he's a 1/2 second slow, passes are blocked or just off the stick.
Last year he was very good at driving xGF and xGA with multiple models, both hockey viz's Magnus and EV's RAPM showed positive play driving ability. Hockey Viz also has a metric called setting, and it attempts to answer the question about how well passes from any given player turn into dangerous shots. He was one of the only positive players last season from the Flyers and is second on the team currently in setting. Sometimes your eyes just don't match what is going on in a larger dataset.
It's not that Frost is a bad player, he'd be a solid 3C on a playoff team, but he's never going to be a lead dog driving a scoring line. At best a 2C with the right wings, but he's not going to elevate their play. A solid middle six guy but not a cornerstone player.
Torts gets frustrated with him because he sees the raw talent and wants more, but at some point he'll accept that Frost is what he is, and lower his expectations. And I think some people here also need to lower expectations, his problem isn't Torts, Frost just isn't that good.
I don't completely disagree here to be honest. I think at this point, it's pretty clear he's a middle-6 center, wingers dependent. I do think there was a low-end 1C in his developmental arc at one point, but it's safe to say that's gone. I'm okay with saying that at this point.
My point, which you've never really acknowledged, is that Frost has never, and will never, be given the same type of leeway, or development chances, that other have gotten. His first year under Torts, when Couts wasn't playing, he should have been the defacto 1st line center. Instead, that went to Cates (TK and 390 mins with Cates vs 153 mins with Frost). Going into last season, Torts was asked about Frost, but said 'what if Cates takes a step forward?' That same season, Frost was scratched like 11 of the first 21 games or something crazy like that. So much so that league-wide sources were picking up the story. Last game of the season last year, with the season on the line, when they needed to score a goal, Frost was benched. There wasn't a gaff, or a missed assignment, like today. Torts just didn't trust him. It's clear that Tort's hasn't changed his mind since the end of last season, and it's not going to change.
