GDT: #8 ⋅ ANA @ NJD ⋅ 4:00 PM PDT

[Ducks DVM]

I think most of us help fowler has a strong first half of the season so we can maybe get something of value for him

Unfortunately so far this year his good games to bad games ratio is pretty ehhh

Honestly that’s almost the entire team.

Also, I think these charts are pretty nonsense. People use them to justify their opinion when it matches, and find reasons why it’s flawed when they don’t.

Edit - and I will stand by the purpose of him being here is so the kids don’t get overused any more than they’re already doing so. It’d be great if he could figure out wtf motivates him and play like he can, but I want that for team success, not a draft pick that has no meaning for 3-5 years.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Honestly that’s almost the entire team.

Also, I think these charts are pretty nonsense. People use them to justify their opinion when it matches, and find reasons why it’s flawed when they don’t.

Edit - and I will stand by the purpose of him being here is so the kids don’t get overused any more than they’re already doing so. It’d be great if he could figure out wtf motivates him and play like he can, but I want that for team success, not a draft pick that has no meaning for 3-5 years.

I’d hope the draft picks could turn into trades for middle age players, it’s obvious none of those are signing here now but with assets we can at least try to trade for pieces to help now

The pick at face value isn’t always great but there is the trade aspect of those extra picks/prospects to get players that we can’t seem to get in free agency

 

[Hey234]

A lot of doom and gloom. The Ducks played a back-to-back on the road against a good team that was looking to break a losing streak. The Ducks played hard against the Rangers and it sucks they didn't get any points but they could have. Tonight seemed almost inevitable.

If the PP was better, the Ducks would probably have one or two more wins on the season. Overall, there are improvements from last season. There are a lot of players who still haven't shown up yet. The team still has plenty of time, opportunity, and room to improve.

The next three games will be pretty telling. I'm expecting the team to look much better and the play more even.

 

[DavidBL]

A lot of doom and gloom. The Ducks played a back-to-back on the road against a good team that was looking to break a losing streak. The Ducks played hard against the Rangers and it sucks they didn't get any points but they could have. Tonight seemed almost inevitable.

If the PP was better, the Ducks would probably have one or two more wins on the season. Overall, there are improvements from last season. There are a lot of players who still haven't shown up yet. The team still has plenty of time, opportunity, and room to improve.

The next three games will be pretty telling. I'm expecting the team to look much better and the play more even.

It's not that they lost, it's the way they're losing. This team will have 1 good game followed by 2 - 4 terrible games. There is too much reliance on kids who are just trying to establish themselves. None if them are ready to lead.

 

[Hey234]

It's not that they lost, it's the way they're losing. This team will have 1 good game followed by 2 - 4 terrible games. There is too much reliance on kids who are just trying to establish themselves. None if them are ready to lead.

But part of that is who they are playing. Rangers, Avalanche, Devils, and Kings are all better teams and should outplay the Ducks. Utah and Sharks are weaker teams and the Ducks won. The next three games are against teams weaker teams and it will reveal a lot.

 

[DavidBL]

But part of that is who they are playing. Rangers, Avalanche, Devils, and Kings are all better teams and should outplay the Ducks. Utah and Sharks are weaker teams and the Ducks won. The next three games are against teams weaker teams and it will reveal a lot.

Except they looked decent, if not good, against NYR and like hot garbage tonight. And the offense has been non existent vs just about anyone. There is way too much supposed talent to be this bad offensively.

 

[AngelDuck]

Except they looked decent, if not good, against NYR and like hot garbage tonight. And the offense has been non existent vs just about anyone. There is way too much supposed talent to be this bad offensively.

Yeah, this is really why it boils down to.

 

[Dryish]

Decent or not defensively, this team will never go anywhere until we have a functioning offense.

I don't know about the philosophical preferences of Verbeek and the rest of our front office well enough to make a judgment about whether I can trust them on this or not, but my personal gut feeling is that this team will never be good or contend before we have an offensive-minded coaching staff. Defences only win games if offences make it possible in the first place.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Yeah, this is really why it boils down to.

Too much talent at forward for the offence to be this bad. I think it’s just the wrong mix of players and a lateral trade could help. Verbeek needs to identify what kind of players this team needs and trade Zegras or Mctavish for a player of similar value and see if he meshes better.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Also, they only looked RELATIVELY good against the Rangers. We managed some offensive zone time in that game, that was the difference in optics. Like, it was still only close because of Lukas. Watching the NY broadcast was illuminating because they were absolutely rock hard over how well the Rangers were playing and how they were controlling the puck in their offensive zone (our defensive zone) at will.

And they were. Our D system even when it’s properly executed completely cedes possession to the attackers to do whatever they want. The defenders stay inside, collapse to the slot when attackers are at the point, and swap positions smoothly when the attackers do in order to stay with their man. That’s when it works well, ie what it’s supposed to do. It’s completely passive and requires that our guys win a battle or a foot race after the attackers shoot or a flub a pass in order for possession to change, which our guys suck at. And then when they do take possession, they have to move the puck under pressure in order to clear the zone, which they also suck at.

We’re also dead last in takeaways and takeaways/game, and we’re near the bottom in hits, and we’re historically bad so far in faceoffs. In other words, both systemically and structurally, we don’t do the things that put pucks on our guys’ sticks. The Rangers seemed kind of vulnerable to our transition, I don’t watch them a bunch but I think they’re maybe better at collecting pucks in their zone than they are at preventing entries or shot attempts.

What was my point. Oh, I guess you can’t look at the Rangers game and say, there’s a good team lurking in here somewhere, because the team is fundamentally flawed. They need better players or they need a system that doesn’t encourage brain farts.

 

[Dryish]

And they were. Our D system even when it’s properly executed completely cedes possession to the attackers to do whatever they want. The defenders stay inside, collapse to the slot when attackers are at the point, and swap positions smoothly when the attackers do in order to stay with their man. That’s when it works well, ie what it’s supposed to do. It’s completely passive and requires that our guys win a battle or a foot race after the attackers shoot or a flub a pass in order for possession to change, which our guys suck at. And then when they do take possession, they have to move the puck under pressure in order to clear the zone, which they also suck at.

Only watching the highlights this isn't as obvious, although still visible, but if this is genuinely how the coaching staff expects the defence to play night in, night out then that's appalling. That is the type of defence that loses you games against skilled offences, no two ways about it.

Fast enough skaters with good puck handling skill will always be able to force the D to play catch-up and if you're talented enough you can either avoid the D-men completely or create a passing lane that cannot be adequately defended and then all of a sudden it's a scoring chance for the opposing team, whether directly or by forcing a rebound with traffic in front.

That's not tenable, not without a very physical, well-skating, and superbly stick-checking, meaning in essence, a downright dominant defence. And we're a century away from having that.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

That's not tenable, not without a very physical, well-skating, and superbly stick-checking, meaning in essence, a downright dominant defence. And we're a century away from having that.

Not just this but the defenders need seasoning — they need to know some tricks. You can’t out-talent the opposition in every situation, this is the NHL and we don’t have any Lidstroms or Orrs or Niedermayers, even baby ones.

 

[Static]

Something that bothers me is that cronin wants and expects the team to play fast and hard, but so many of the systems in place promote watching and waiting. Passivity does not beget the emotion he wants. I don't really understand how these things are so supposed to harmonize.

Again, I suspect that our current defensive structure was born out of our historically bad defensive performance two years ago. It's killing our offense now, too, they have to see that.

 

[Leonardo87]

Something that bothers me is that cronin wants and expects the team to play fast and hard, but so many of the systems in place promote watching and waiting. Passivity does not beget the emotion he wants. I don't really understand how these things are so supposed to harmonize.

Again, I suspect that our current defensive structure was born out of our historically bad defensive performance two years ago. It's killing our offense now, too, they have to see that.

Problem with Cronin's system he wants guys to dump and chase, yet our guys cannot win a puck battle to save their lives. They are better suited to carry the puck over and try and create a rush.

It's only 8 games in but I'm seeing the same crap from last year, and it's going to be very difficult to score more than 1 or 2 goals a game under this system and poor PP.

Other fans look at our kids and see their production and think it's them. It's not. Bedard would also struggle here as well. Willing to bet he'd have maybe 20-25% less the production. That is how bad the Ducks system is. Tied dead last for GF. and 2nd last in the PP. Enough is enough already.

 

[Static]

Problem with Cronin's system he wants guys to dump and chase, yet our guys cannot win a puck battle to save their lives. They are better suited to carry the puck over and try and create a rush.

It's only 8 games in but I'm seeing the same crap from last year, and it's going to be very difficult to score more than 1 or 2 goals a game under this system and poor PP.

Other fans look at our kids and see their production and think it's them. It's not. Bedard would also struggle here as well. Willing to bet he'd have maybe 20-25% less the production. That is how bad the Ducks system is. Tied dead last for GF. and 2nd last in the PP. Enough is enough already.

Ironically, the dump and chase system does promote the skating and aggression he (says) he wants, we just don't have the roster that fits it, nor does the defensive structure organically support it.

Both structures together require us to...never have the puck? But we want to promote possession? When?

This only makes sense if the players are playing the systems all wrong out of fear or PTSD, which is its own terrible problem.

 

[JAHV]

Something that bothers me is that cronin wants and expects the team to play fast and hard, but so many of the systems in place promote watching and waiting. Passivity does not beget the emotion he wants. I don't really understand how these things are so supposed to harmonize.

Again, I suspect that our current defensive structure was born out of our historically bad defensive performance two years ago. It's killing our offense now, too, they have to see that.

One of the things that has bothered me is the passivity you mention. The focus seems to be on simplifying and playing conservatively. I understand the impulse; it's most likely borne out of a desire to make things easier on the young kids and to emphasize maintaining structure. But you can't succeed that way at the NHL level because star players are physically gifted enough to eventually break every system.

And it's also at odds with Verbeek's emphasis on drafting and developing guys with good hockey IQs. The reason why those IQs are so important is that those players can use their brains and instincts to break structure temporarily to create a turnover or an offensive opportunity. If you maintain structure 100% of the time, you either need a physically dominant team or you need to hope that the other team fails to execute their own game plan, because they will figure out what you're doing and exploit it. The Ducks do not have a physically dominant team.

I want this team to be creative. I want to see some instinctual play. Yes, it will absolutely result in turnovers from time to time. But those are happening anyway! I'm not saying to completely abandon the structure, but there needs to be some allowance for using intelligence and instinct to create plays.

 

[Static]

"And that's why you don't play kids in roles until they're ready"

 

[HanSolo]

I was going to do this whole write up on my impressions but I'll condense it. (it's still long, I know)

Firstly, the kids are all-in view-showing some degree of progression in their respective games but still have issues to work out/work on (actually, two exceptions, I feel like McTavish and Zegras are regressing). The one issue I kept coming back to on every single one of our 23 and unders was puck management under pressure. And if your really think about it, the entire team-top to bottom-struggles with this. Even Terry who has been the most effective at penetrating defenses and making plays that advance play under pressure. All of our veterans suffer from the same flaw that is common among our youth.

Again, that comes down to game preparation and systems. I don't think it's enough to say it's a personnel issue. The thing that struck me about the Rangers game is a bit different from what Midnight Burrito observed. Yes defensively we let the Rangers play full on 1980s Soviet hockey and this team has had glaring defensive problems considering they have such a defense first coach. But in terms of the fact that Anaheim was actually able to generate offensive chances and look capable at executing basic and advanced passing plays, what I noticed was something I didn't want to say after a relatively positive performance: the Rangers didn't really pressure the Ducks defensively all that much. They got up in lanes, sure, but they allowed the Ducks more time and space than they usually get to make passes under less pressure. It seemed to me almost like the Rags didn't consider the Ducks much of a scoring threat so they were more concerned with what they were going to do on their eventual counterattack.

Every other team they've played, including the Sharks, have clued into how easy it is to make this team fundamentally unravel and it's just have a defending player get up in the face of a puck carrier and the possessing Duck player is 75+% likely to do something stupid with the puck, or start the dump and chase without guys in place to recover.

The Rangers game proved the team knows how to pass the puck. Every other game including the Rangers game proved that they are not drilling passing under pressure properly, and the systems in place are not conducive to puck receptions in transition, effective zone entries, or 5 man puck movement with an offensive zone set up either on the powerplay or 5 on 5. Most of our chance generation happens fresh off the rush.

Teams like Chicago and Columbus, with new youth cores of their own, have seen improvements in this respect while the Ducks are just getting worse with the puck on their stick.

Yes, the vet core-Killorn in particular-is suboptimal, but the team really should be playing more competent hockey than they are. And after this many games, I think it's fairly obvious that this coaching staff is not effective. And considering they're at the front line of developing these kids to teach them good habits conducive to winning hockey? I shudder to wonder how much longer we're going to waste prime development time with an inept coaching staff and how much damage that will cause to the youth core.

 

[Leonardo87]

Ironically, the dump and chase system does promote the skating and aggression he (says) he wants, we just don't have the roster that fits it, nor does the defensive structure organically support it.

Both structures together require us to...never have the puck? But we want to promote possession? When?

This only makes sense if the players are playing the systems all wrong out of fear or PTSD, which is its own terrible problem.

Need to carry the puck over. With guys like Terry, Leo, and Z. They are not designed to dump and chase. If the 4th line wants to do that, that's fine.

The other issue with possession. They don't spend enough time in the O-zone. Too many one and dones. Need to get a cycle going, but also shoot at every opportunity. This is why I love Cutter Gauthier. He had that one sequence where he shot the puck on one end on goal, and skated across to get his own rebound to create another scoring chance. He was robbed of a couple of goals last night.

Most of our guys are looking for that perfect play. Just shoot the F'ing puck. Hope for a deflection or a nice rebound in front.

 

[HanSolo]

Need to carry the puck over. With guys like Terry, Leo, and Z. They are not designed to dump and chase. If the 4th line wants to do that, that's fine.

The other issue with possession. They don't spend enough time in the O-zone. Too many one and dones. Need to get a cycle going, but also shoot at every opportunity. This is why I love Cutter Gauthier. He had that one sequence where he shot the puck on one end on goal, and skated across to get his own rebound to create another scoring chance. He was robbed of a couple of goals last night.

Most of our guys are looking for that perfect play. Just shoot the F'ing puck. Hope for a deflection or a nice rebound in front.

Most of this stems from the problem I discussed above. Poor drilling and poor systems. Look how both NYR and NJD moved the puck in transition and in the offensive zone. They don't wait for the perfect play, they see the right one and quickly know where to move the puck to. They're not just peppering the goalie with shots (I legitimately don't think "just shoot it" is the right answer either, but for this team and this coach it might be the only solution). These teams are conditioned and prepared to execute these plays. The Ducks are not. They hold the puck looking for the perfect play because any given player looks like they're not sure the right one will work because they're not prepared. Either by way of game prep drilling or the systems in place. This team lacks confidence that they will make the right play with the puck so the majority of the time the self fulfilling prophecy triggers and they make the wrong move.

Hell I watched bits and pieces of the recent Sharks vs. Kings game and it left me absolutely f***ing dumbfounded that the Sharks of all teams were better at connecting passes against the LA defense than we were. Like a lot better. And it's not like confirmation/negativity bias either. The Sharks, in the ten-fifteen minutes I watched, executed more than a handful of passes that the Ducks struggle to even attempt.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

I truly believe all these problems can be corrected with a more well managed coaching system.. Its obvious to see the players have tuned him out..

 

[Mr Rogers]

Most of this stems from the problem I discussed above. Poor drilling and poor systems. Look how both NYR and NJD moved the puck in transition and in the offensive zone. They don't wait for the perfect play, they see the right one and quickly know where to move the puck to. They're not just peppering the goalie with shots (I legitimately don't think "just shoot it" is the right answer either, but for this team and this coach it might be the only solution). These teams are conditioned and prepared to execute these plays. The Ducks are not. They hold the puck looking for the perfect play because any given player looks like they're not sure the right one will work because they're not prepared. Either by way of game prep drilling or the systems in place. This team lacks confidence that they will make the right play with the puck so the majority of the time the self fulfilling prophecy triggers and they make the wrong move.

Hell I watched bits and pieces of the recent Sharks vs. Kings game and it left me absolutely f***ing dumbfounded that the Sharks of all teams were better at connecting passes against the LA defense than we were. Like a lot better. And it's not like confirmation/negativity bias either. The Sharks, in the ten-fifteen minutes I watched, executed more than a handful of passes that the Ducks struggle to even attempt.

Totally agree and by the sounds of it, it might be all Cronin is telling them to do and is relying solely on more of a shooting mentality to fix it.

For me it’s a chicken and the egg thing. Good teams generate more shots cuz their o-zone scheme/setup is better. I don’t think just forcing more shots will make an appreciable difference. I mean maybe they’d get a couple more rebound goals against bad defenses but it’s definitely more of a band-aid comment than something that’ll really move this team structurally forward.

 

[HanSolo]

Totally agree and by the sounds of it, it might be all Cronin is telling them to do and is relying solely on more of a shooting mentality to fix it.

For me it’s a chicken and the egg thing. Good teams generate more shots cuz their o-zone scheme/setup is better. I don’t think just forcing more shots will make an appreciable difference. I mean maybe they’d get a couple more rebound goals against bad defenses but it’s definitely more of a band-aid comment than something that’ll really move this team structurally forward.

Very well put. That was more or less what I was thinking when I heard Cronin say that was an impetus for this season. Are we working on an offensive approach that is more conducive towards generating a higher volume of quality shots? Or is the message "just fling the puck at the goalie from anywhere and good things will happen eventually?"

Cause the latter is a bit gorilla brained in the first place, but it's not even working, which tips off that the former really should've been the focus. This team is in the bottom quarter of teams in terms of SOG/g and the only reason they're not dead last after going huge chunks of games without authoring a single shot on goal is because this team is somehow capable of peppering nothing shots in the last ten-fifteen minutes of games that inflate the totals. But like, last night we went what 15-20 minutes stuck at 10 SOG on the night for a long stretch and then finished the game at a somewhat respectable 24, but the vast majority of those shots didn't trouble the goalie at all.

This is just not a recipe for a functional offense. And we have too much talent on this team to look this inept with possession of the puck. I can understand not having enough talent to threaten a playoff spot but this is beyond mediocre. This is functionally broken hockey. And I don't know how anyone can even attempt to make excuses for the coaches for it.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Very well put. That was more or less what I was thinking when I heard Cronin say that was an impetus for this season. Are we working on an offensive approach that is more conducive towards generating a higher volume of quality shots? Or is the message "just fling the puck at the goalie from anywhere and good things will happen eventually?"

Cause the latter is a bit gorilla brained in the first place, but it's not even working, which tips off that the former really should've been the focus. This team is in the bottom quarter of teams in terms of SOG/g and the only reason they're not dead last after going huge chunks of games without authoring a single shot on goal is because this team is somehow capable of peppering nothing shots in the last ten-fifteen minutes of games that inflate the totals. But like, last night we went what 15-20 minutes stuck at 10 SOG on the night for a long stretch and then finished the game at a somewhat respectable 24, but the vast majority of those shots didn't trouble the goalie at all.

This is just not a recipe for a functional offense. And we have too much talent on this team to look this inept with possession of the puck. I can understand not having enough talent to threaten a playoff spot but this is beyond mediocre. This is functionally broken hockey. And I don't know how anyone can even attempt to make excuses for the coaches for it.

It was apparent last season the offense was a dud, but too many people kept saying "the injuries, the injuries" like they were mimicking Tattoo from Fantasy Island, "De plane, de plane!" Same system, new season, same result. Cronin is waiting in individual effort to shine through in sparse moments for his offensive system.

TBF, we looked better later in the 3rd period because Cronin reverted back to his old lines that did work vs the Rangers. We see the difference in SOGs in the third period. Still, the offense remained missing in action.

Another point of concern that some of us brought up when we traded away Rico and Carrick was, "How are we going to win FO's now when we lost two out of our top-3 FO specialists?" We are currently ranked 32nd in the league. The more we lose at the FO circle, the less time we have of puck possession. Less puck possession time means we aren't getting better offensively.

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

Even if youre not as bullish on the franchise’s future, this team’s current talent level is no worse than Columbus, and yet we’re not even in the same ballpark most nights. The fact that this team struggles to generate quality chances and normally maxes out at a number you can count on one hand is a huge turn-off.