Prospect Info: #69(nice)OA - Hurricanes select LHD Alexander Nikishin (Spartak - KHL)

[AhosDatsyukian]

Highly doubt we take a guy and immediately slot him in the top 4.

KHL contract doesn’t matter except that he may not take an AHL stint.

we should go into next season with a prospect camp invite. He can win the bottom LHD role with a strong training camp as well. He’ll battle Sellgren and a veteran league minimum signing for 3LD. Let him work his way up to taking over Skjei’s spot for 2 seasons. If he doesn’t win the spot, he’ll go back to Russia and try again in 22-23.

I think you're misconstruing what I was saying... Of course we didn't draft him with him slotting in the top 4 in mind, that's just the hope. I'm very high on Nikishin and think based on what we've seen so far and what he can do that in 3 years he'll be ready to step right into a top 4 role and be able to prove himself right from the second he arrives in NA. Of course no one really knows and the Canes aren't placing all their bets on this happening, but I personally expect he'll step right into a top 4 role once he comes over.

Regarding the contract, I don't think that's right. I don't know the exact rules but there's definitely some agreement in place between NHL/KHL. Podkolzin would've gone top 5 a few years back if it wasn't known from before the draft that he wouldn't be able to come to NA for 2-3 years (or whatever it was). I don't know exactly how it affects Boom, but even if he can come over here sooner I doubt he leaves before his current contract is up, he likely won't be ready before then and I don't think Russian prospects like him often leave the KHL while under contract (even if they are able to).

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

@Caser or @Lempo

What are the rules with KHL/NHL honoring each sides contracts? Can Nikishin come to NA before his contract is up? How is it different from Podkolzin who had to stay in Russia for 2-3 years on that contract he was on?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think you're misconstruing what I was saying... Of course we didn't draft him with him slotting in the top 4 in mind, that's just the hope. I'm very high on Nikishin and think based on what we've seen so far and what he can do that in 3 years he'll be ready to step right into a top 4 role and be able to prove himself right from the second he arrives in NA. Of course no one really knows and the Canes aren't placing all their bets on this happening, but I personally expect he'll step right into a top 4 role once he comes over.

Regarding the contract, I don't think that's right. I don't know the exact rules but there's definitely some agreement in place between NHL/KHL. Podkolzin would've gone top 5 a few years back if it wasn't known from before the draft that he wouldn't be able to come to NA for 2-3 years (or whatever it was). I don't know exactly how it affects Boom, but even if he can come over here sooner I doubt he leaves before his current contract is up, he likely won't be ready before then and I don't think Russian prospects like him often leave the KHL while under contract (even if they are able to).

I wasn’t clear, we wouldn’t grab a guy from Russia and immediately put him in the top 4 was my point.

as far as the rules, there isn’t a transfer agreement. Without a transfer agreement, players can’t sign a deal with a Russian team or a NHL team when under contract with another team in the other league. Probably why we quickly signed Ponomaryov before he went over. That does mean contracts have to be terminated before a signing can happen. Of course some financial motivation may be required to make that happen for the better players.

in this case, we probably greased the wheels in negotiation for getting Nishikin released. “Coincidentally” guess who Ponomaryov plays for. The same team Nishikin plays for. I scratch your back by signing a guy and not requiring a loan fee if you scratch mine and give me a discount on terminating Nishikin.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I wasn’t clear, we wouldn’t grab a guy from Russia and immediately put him in the top 4 was my point.

as far as the rules, there isn’t a transfer agreement. Without a transfer agreement, players can’t sign a deal with a Russian team or a NHL team when under contract with another team in the other league. Probably why we quickly signed Ponomaryov before he went over. That does mean contracts have to be terminated before a signing can happen. Of course some financial motivation may be required to make that happen for the better players.

in this case, we probably greased the wheels in negotiation for getting Nishikin released. “Coincidentally” guess who Ponomaryov plays for. The same team Nishikin plays for. I scratch your back by signing a guy and not requiring a loan fee if you scratch mine and give me a discount on terminating Nishikin.

Why not, if his play is deserving? Wild put Kaprizov right on their top line...


Ok so we don't really control him coming here in the next 3 years while he's under contract. If Spartak is competitive and Nikishin emerges as one of their best players I don't see them giving a crap about us or Ponomaryeov and just letting him walk to us, even with financial considerations. We'll happily wait as he develops there and there isn't really a slot for him here until Skjei's contract is up anyways.
It's possible he could come over sooner but I really don't see him coming here in the next 3 years while he's under contract, it just doesn't make much sense for any of the parties.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Why not, if his play is deserving? Wild put Kaprizov right on their top line...


Ok so we don't really control him coming here in the next 3 years while he's under contract. If Spartak is competitive and Nikishin emerges as one of their best players I don't see them giving a crap about us or Ponomaryeov and just letting him walk to us, even with financial considerations. We'll happily wait as he develops there and there isn't really a slot for him here until Skjei's contract is up anyways.
It's possible he could come over sooner but I really don't see him coming here in the next 3 years while he's under contract, it just doesn't make much sense for any of the parties.

Nishikin on a defensive sound team isn’t the same situation as a Wild team void of top talent. On top of that, Minnesota messed up their initial negotiation with Kaprizov two years earlier by telling him he was going to be a 3rd liner. Kaprizov said nah dog and re-signed to stay in Russia. They had to guarantee he would be a top liner to come over.

with that being said, 20th ranked player and below make as little as an ELC does in the KHL as off 2020. So there could be plenty of motivation for Nishikin to come over. He isn’t making top money like Kaprizov was. With rookie performance bonuses, he could make more money here easily. On a short deal, he could get his next raise sooner (like Kaprizov and Sorokin).

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Nishikin on a defensive sound team isn’t the same situation as a Wild team void of top talent. On top of that, Minnesota messed up their initial negotiation with Kaprizov two years earlier by telling him he was going to be a 3rd liner. Kaprizov said nah dog and re-signed to stay in Russia. They had to guarantee he would be a top liner to come over.

with that being said, 20th ranked player and below make as little as an ELC does in the KHL as off 2020. So there could be plenty of motivation for Nishikin to come over. He isn’t making top money like Kaprizov was. With rookie performance bonuses, he could make more money here easily. On a short deal, he could get his next raise sooner (like Kaprizov and Sorokin).

Any team in the league would've handed Kaprizov top 6 minutes after what he proved in the KHL (2 years earlier he hadn't proved himself yet), it all depends on how good the player is and what he can prove when he comes over in camp, preseason, etc. No reason if Nikishin proves himself further there he couldn't step into a top 4 role.

That's a fair point, but he's not coming over for a bottom pair spot as that will not earn him performance bonuses or more money and we don't have another slot for him until Skjei's contract is up unless we trade Skjei or barring injuries.

 

[Caser]

@Caser or @Lempo

What are the rules with KHL/NHL honoring each sides contracts? Can Nikishin come to NA before his contract is up? How is it different from Podkolzin who had to stay in Russia for 2-3 years on that contract he was on?

Likely it is no different, so he won't be able to sign in the NHL until his KHL contract is up.

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Lempo]

@Caser or @Lempo

What are the rules with KHL/NHL honoring each sides contracts? Can Nikishin come to NA before his contract is up? How is it different from Podkolzin who had to stay in Russia for 2-3 years on that contract he was on?

What @Gocanes0506 said.

The CBA 10.2 on Free Agents defines in its (b)(i)(B) a never-signed player who is contracted to an unaffiliated league like KHL a Defected Player, and has in its (ii) quite a lot to say on the conditions on which such a player can be signed onto an NHL SPC.

(b) Group 4 Free Agents.

(i) Definition of "Defected Player." For purposes of this Agreement, "Defected Player" means any Player not unconditionally released:

(A) who, having had an SPC with a Club, the provisions of which have not been completely fulfilled, contracts for a period including any part of the unfulfilled portion of his SPC, with a club in a league not affiliated with the NHL or with any such league (both of which are hereinafter referred to as an "unaffiliated club") or with any other professional hockey club to the exclusion of the said Club or its assignee; or

(B) who, never having been under contract to any Club, but as to who the NHL negotiation rights now or at any time hereafter shall reside in any Club, has contracted or shall contract with such an unaffiliated club.

(C) A Player who plays out his final season and enters into a contract for a period including the following season with an unaffiliated club or with any other professional hockey club shall not be deemed to be a "Defected Player"; provided, however, that nothing contained in this Section shall be construed to affect the rights of said Club to compensation, if applicable, pursuant to this Article 10 in the event that said Player should subsequently enter into an SPC for his services as a professional hockey player with another Club of the NHL.​

(ii) Free Agent Status.

(A) Any such Defected Player shall be deemed to have become a free agent within the meaning of this Agreement, when one of the following conditions (1), (2), (3), (4) or (5) and condition (6) have occurred.

(1) the Player, having become a Defected Player pursuant to Section 10.2(b)(i)(A), has become free of any obligation to such unaffiliated club(s) or such other professional hockey club(s) during the playing season by reason of its default or the dissolution of its league and has not, prior to fourteen (14) days thereafter, entered into a valid SPC for a period which includes the current and/or following season, for his services as a professional hockey player with the Club with which he was last under SPC; or

(2) the Player, having become a Defected Player pursuant to Section 10.2(b)(i)(A), has become free of any obligation to such unaffiliated club(s) or such other professional hockey club(s) during the off season and has not, prior to sixty (60) days thereafter, entered into a valid SPC for a period which includes the current and/or following season for his services as a professional hockey player with the Club with which he was last under SPC; or

(3) the Player, having become a Defected Player pursuant to Section 10.2(b)(i)(B) and having played no more than two (2) full seasons with an unaffiliated club(s), has become free of any obligation to such unaffiliated club(s) during the playing season by reason of its default or the dissolution of its league and has not, prior to fourteen (14) days thereafter, entered into a valid SPC for a period which includes the current and/or following season for his services as a professional hockey player with the Club which last had the NHL rights to negotiate with such Player; or

(4) the Player, having become a Defected Player pursuant to Section 10.2(b)(i)(B), and having played no more than two (2) full seasons with an unaffiliated club(s), has become free of any obligation to such unaffiliated club(s) during the off season and has not, prior to thirty days thereafter, entered into a valid SPC for a period which includes the current and/or following season for his services as a professional hockey player with the Club which last had the NHL rights to negotiate with such Player; or

(5) the Player, having become a Defected Player pursuant to Section 10.2(b)(i)(B) and having played more than two (2) full seasons with an unaffiliated club(s), has become free of any obligation to such unaffiliated club(s); and

(6) the Commissioner makes a determination (which shall be made as promptly as feasible) that he has reason to believe that the conditions described in subparagraphs (1), (2), (3), (4) or (5) have occurred, that he has ascertained the date upon which such Player became free of obligation, and that the Player falls within category (A) or (B) of Section 10.2(b)(i) above, by placing such a Player's name on theFree Agent List (Defected Players) issued as of such time or any amendment of such List, which List, except for the date thereof and except for its application to Defected Players, as defined herein, shall otherwise be issued substantially in accordance with Exhibit 3.​

(B) Upon the occurrence of the conditions prescribed by subparagraphs (1), (2) and (3) of Section 10.2(b)(ii)(A), the provisions of this Article 10, as applicable, shall then apply to any such Defected Player as if he had become a free agent at the expiration of his SPC, including, without limitation, the rights and obligations which would be imposed or conferred by the provisions of Sections 10.3 through 10.4 upon a Club signing such a Player and upon a Club with whom a free agent was last under SPC or who owned the NHL rights to negotiate with such Player.

(C) When the Commissioner places such a Player's name on the Free Agent List it shall bear an appropriate notation that the Player has contracted with a club in an unaffiliated league or with any other professional hockey club and that the placing of such a Player's name on the Free Agent List does not constitute any representation that he has fulfilled or will fulfill his obligation to the unaffiliated club or other professional hockey club prior to the commencement of the next season.​

(iii) If the Club with which any Player covered by Section 10.2(b)(i) was last under SPC or which owned the NHL rights to negotiate with such Player has properly transferred or assigned or properly transfers or assigns those rights to another Club, then all rights and obligations conferred by this Article 10 upon the Club with which such Player was last under SPC (or, as provided by Section 10.2(b)(i)(C) and Section 10.2(b)(ii), the Club which owned the NHL rights to negotiate with such Player) shall be deemed to have been assumed and acquired thereby by such other Club.

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I guess they called Ponomaryov back up

 

[Kaljis]

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

He’s gonna be the biggest hitter in the NHL since Kronwall

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I never thought that the Canes would one day have their very own Kasparaitis to call their own. If he pans out as an NHLer, we'll finally have one of those "hard to play against" players that the meathead GMs love (and maybe be an actually-good player at the same time?), and I can't wait for it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s gonna be the biggest hitter in the NHL since Kronwall

I like that he's doing it without the obvious headhunting. He's just straight-up demolishing guys out there.

Unfortunately that means he probably won't look anything like this at the NHL level, where trying those hits is usually a bad idea.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I like that he's doing it without the obvious headhunting. He's just straight-up demolishing guys out there.

Unfortunately that means he probably won't look anything like this at the NHL level, where trying those hits is usually a bad idea.

He'll have less hits of this caliber in the NHL but the one in the most recent video posted is one he'll make every time he has that opportunity and there's really no downside to it. He'll definitely be plastering guys like this here.

 

[HisIceness]

If he makes it, and he's a pain in the ass to play against along with being a solid defender, then that's a win for our team.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He'll have less hits of this caliber in the NHL but the one in the most recent video posted is one he'll make every time he has that opportunity and there's really no downside to it. He'll definitely be plastering guys like this here.

The only possible downside is that with the speed and skill of the players in the nhl, it means he may have to commit to that hit a fraction sooner and top players may get him out of position and leave the inside of the ice open.

I’m not saying it will happen, as it all depends on how quickly he can read and react, not only to the puck carrier, but trailers as well. He certainly seems to have it mastered in his league though.

 

[bleedgreen]

There’s so much we aren’t seeing about his play and skating, you can’t bring this into NHL expectations any more than you can bring scoring. He could be hitting the slowest and/or least experienced guy on each other team in these videos. Honestly the play looks slow overall and some of these guys are basically hitting themselves the way it’s setting up.

NHL forwards won’t be the same kind of target and the timing has to be perfect, and even if it’s a great hit it can still be the wrong play. Don’t get me wrong, me of all people think hockey has become a sissy fest and I strongly desire more guys like this to crush souls. Zadarov is a very good hitter and a very good comparison, and he has absolutely struggled to find a way to be this guy and a good enough dman to stay in the league. Think about how hard he that guy hits and how fans love it, and yet he keeps moving on.

We haven’t seen any of his defense really. It’s fun watch the highlights, of course I hope this dream comes true but to he has to be a great skater overall to make it. Kronwall was an amazing lateral skater.

Kasparaitus was one of my all time favorites. That’s just a rough comparison. Kaspar was small but made of old iron. He was a good skater and he hit everyone to hurt them. He was mean. He was proud of the damage he caused. He was crazy, he had made it from from a rough life and so much alcoholism (while fighting it himself). It’s hard to recreate that kind of person or player. The world today would hate him and he would be suspended every game. God I miss watching that guy.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Kasparaitus was one of my all time favorites. He was crazy, he had made it from from a rough life and so much alcoholism (while fighting it himself). It’s hard to recreate that kind of person or player. The world today would hate him and he would be suspended every game. God I miss watching that guy.

A bit of black humor, but this reminds me of the Onion article on Crosby: Strongside/Weakside: Sidney Crosby

 

[CandyCanes]

I don’t know why. But this play gets me really excited for Nishikin. Being 6’4 this guy is pretty freakin nifty and has some nice speed.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I don’t know why. But this play gets me really excited for Nishikin. Being 6’4 this guy is pretty freakin nifty and has some nice speed.

Lesser league of course but that's the type of play you really only ever see from elite players. Not saying he'll be elite in the NHL, but I'd be shocked if he isn't a solid top 4 D man at least.

 

[Svechhammer]

He plays with a mean edge to his game.

Him and Drury on the ice together in the future could do nice things for our team

 

[WreckingCrew]

He plays with a mean edge to his game.

Him and Drury on the ice together in the future could do nice things for our team

Do we kill them both now or later? Again?

 

[DaveG]

I don’t know why. But this play gets me really excited for Nishikin. Being 6’4 this guy is pretty freakin nifty and has some nice speed.

Yep. I noted it after we drafted him but the tools are there for this guy and it was always going to be a question of if he could put it together. Some of the stuff he was doing (mind you against smaller players) in the Russian junior leagues was stuff guys his size have no business being able to do. Well 2 years later he's starting to be able to do it against people (almost) his own size and with much more experience.