Prospect Info: 6 scouts sacked -Gare-MACGREGOR -Davis-Hawley-Samenko-Moores

[Bryanbryoil]

Chia confirmed what I had suspected that the list was going to be changing. The list that the other scouts were privy to will be changed by draft day and the guys that were determined to be the weak links really have no input anymore. They are trusting in their remaining scouts, Howson and Green to get the job done.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Chia confirmed what I had suspected that the list was going to be changing. The list that the other scouts were privy to will be changed by draft day and the guys that were determined to be the weak links really have no input anymore. They are trusting in their remaining scouts, Howson and Green to get the job done.

Do you think MacGregor was actually one of our 3 weakest scouts? I'm thinking we felt he did an unsatisfactory job as our head amateur scout, but it seems doubtful that he was one of our 3 worst, considering how quickly he got promoted to head amateur scout over top of guys who were with the team for longer.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Do you think MacGregor was actually one of our 3 weakest scouts? I'm thinking we felt he did an unsatisfactory job as our head amateur scout, but it seems doubtful that he was one of our 3 worst, considering how quickly he got promoted to head amateur scout over top of guys who were with the team for longer.

Without knowing the ins and outs of the whole system I couldn't say. That said ultimately the draft results fell at his feet. The problem with your logic is that the guys that he was promoted over had a piss poor draft record under KP.

 

[CorpseFX]

about time these guys get sacked. the drafts outside of the top picks have been very lackluster. kind of an obvious move that took too long.

hockey might be interesting to watch now with all the changes. A+

interesting to see this many people get wiped right before draft also.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Without knowing the ins and outs of the whole system I couldn't say. That said ultimately the draft results fell at his feet. The problem with your logic is that the guys that he was promoted over had a piss poor draft record under KP.

Um what?

MacGregor was here for the entire duration of the Kevin Prendergast regime as head scout, that is also true of other scouts who are still with us right now, so if you are going to lump them all as having piss poor drafting records, what distinguishes Stu MacGregor from let's say Bill Dandy or Frantisek Musil? Why was he the one that got promoted?

 

[Mr Sakich]

I read that the oilers brass have heavily scouted the top 50. Howson, Mact and Green are still here and that was their project.

rounds 3-7 were scouted by the rest of the staff. A list was made but many of the guys are now gone. I wonder if Chia intends to trade a few of these picks? If he has incomplete knowledge for rounds 3-7, he might value these picks a little less.

There are a number of cap strapped teams out there who are looking to dump contracts for picks.

 

[Asher]

Funny to look at now.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1875233

One of the posts there:

Buchberger is down in OKC honing his coaching skills for some reason. My prediction is that he will be back behind the Oiers bench next season. I can't wait for that announcement.

You know you've lost all hope when predictions like that get made.

 

[Gord]

i support the last two drafts. The firings make alot of sense to me, considering the trips MacT took and the rumors of which scouts he trusted the most. as far as scouting goes, MacT was very involved for a GM.
for people who bash Musil being a scout and repeating their dead horse OBC rhetoric; he is OUR MAN in the region with most negativity for draft picks but MacT obviously, despite the negativity, trusted assessments from Musils camp of scouts. some nice picks from there. each scout has their area and dont watch much outside of it other than Wjhc etc. so when your Finnish draft order is messed every year, or your swedish...you should axe them. the musil camp picks seem to be good for their placement imo.

i can definitely see MacT being Chias draft consult. MacT gets alot of blame (especially for years he wasnt even here and disgustingly in some cases the years he spent being treated and recovering from cancer) but ive liked his draft record and his personal involvement in flying around the world to get first hand knowledge of those players.

so a person can't be criticized about their former coaching job because they later got sick? unless they directly referenced his cancer, it shouldn't matter.
come on, man.

 

[Aequitas]

so a person can't be criticized about their former coaching job because they later got sick? unless they directly referenced his cancer, it shouldn't matter.
come on, man.

Either you quoted the wrong post or you didn't read his?

 

[Gord]

Either you quoted the wrong post or you didn't read his?

he said "MacT gets alot of blame (especially for years he wasnt even here and disgustingly in some cases the years he spent being treated and recovering from cancer)"


so I read it as he found it disgusting that Mact got criticized when he was being treated for cancer.

so why bring that up? just because he got sick doesn't mean opinions on his job should get muzzled.

 

[joestevens29]

Was MacT even here when he had cancer? I thought he was on TSN at that time?

 

[harpoon]

Was MacT even here when he had cancer? I thought he was on TSN at that time?

I think that was the point. MacT seems to be so hated right now that in some cases he's being blamed (or criticized on the internet if you'd rather) for stuff he couldn't possibly have had anything to do with because he was not even with the club in an official capacity, and was in fact undergoing treatment.

Not saying I dis/agree with the point, just that's how I read it.

 

[joestevens29]

I think that was the point. MacT seems to be so hated right now that in some cases he's being blamed (or criticized on the internet if you'd rather) for stuff he couldn't possibly have had anything to do with because he was not even with the club in an official capacity, and was in fact undergoing treatment.

Not saying I dis/agree with the point, just that's how I read it.

Ah gotcha. Seems about right for these parts.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

MacT and Lowe deserve all of the hate they get. They were perfectly comfortable to let the Oilers rot away because of their egos (couldn't admit despite chat evidence that they didn't know what they were doing). Sure, they bleed copper and blue but a lot of people do. For some older people, the Oilers (+/-Esks) are the only entertainment they get nd they've had to go nearly a decade without meaningful games.

Edit: talking about when he was actually working, obviously

 

[Up the Irons]

MacT and Lowe deserve all of the hate they get. They were perfectly comfortable to let the Oilers rot away because of their egos (couldn't admit despite chat evidence that they didn't know what they were doing). Sure, they bleed copper and blue but a lot of people do. For some older people, the Oilers (+/-Esks) are the only entertainment they get nd they've had to go nearly a decade without meaningful games.

Edit: talking about when he was actually working, obviously

Yes. but, Lowe much more than Mact. Mact wasn't very good at his job, but he didn't appoint himself to the position. Lowe hired him. Lowe promoted Stu. He never made a single quality hire, except for maybe the Oilkings staff. He never did interviews, hired buddy's, protected buddies. KLowe made his own bed. I realize he loves the Oilers, but he has protected himself at every stage, and still does.

I will never let Lowe off the hook for that last 7 years. Even if they win 4 cups, if he is in the team photo, it will take a some of the shine off.

 

[RattsSSV]

MacT and Lowe deserve all of the hate they get. They were perfectly comfortable to let the Oilers rot away because of their egos (couldn't admit despite chat evidence that they didn't know what they were doing). Sure, they bleed copper and blue but a lot of people do. For some older people, the Oilers (+/-Esks) are the only entertainment they get nd they've had to go nearly a decade without meaningful games.

Edit: talking about when he was actually working, obviously

Great post.

As much as I may respect them from their playing days, they sure ****ed things up when given control and deserve the hate.

 

[Samus44]

he said "MacT gets alot of blame (especially for years he wasnt even here and disgustingly in some cases the years he spent being treated and recovering from cancer)"


so I read it as he found it disgusting that Mact got criticized when he was being treated for cancer.

so why bring that up? just because he got sick doesn't mean opinions on his job should get muzzled.

He's saying it's absurd that he get's blamed for things that happened when he wasn't here, after he was coach and before GM. He's saying he's getting blamed for stuff that happened while he was fighting cancer and not employed by the Oilers. He's right MacTavish was GM for 2 seasons, he's not the guy that got us into this mess.

 

[Asher]

I think that was the point. MacT seems to be so hated right now that in some cases he's being blamed (or criticized on the internet if you'd rather) for stuff he couldn't possibly have had anything to do with because he was not even with the club in an official capacity, and was in fact undergoing treatment.

Not saying I dis/agree with the point, just that's how I read it.

I don't hate MacT but I think he was in over head as GM. He probably would have gotten better if given more time but I'm glad they didn't wait and instead replaced him with someone with much more experience and a much better track record.

 

[Gord]

He's saying it's absurd that he get's blamed for things that happened when he wasn't here, after he was coach and before GM. He's saying he's getting blamed for stuff that happened while he was fighting cancer and not employed by the Oilers. He's right MacTavish was GM for 2 seasons, he's not the guy that got us into this mess.

he also said it's disgusting that he was getting criticized while he had cancer.

at the time when he was sick and working for tsn, he was only getting blamed for his coaching skills, that's all. there was debate as to if he was a good coach or not.
the fact he was ill (which not many people knew about) while his coaching merits were debated doesn't deserve to be called disgusting by anyone.

anyway. it's off topic so I'll drop it.

I think we all agree that by saying we're happy scouts got fired, says nothing about the scouts as people, and of course we're not filled with glee that people lost their job.
We just think the scouts were doing a really poor job and unfortunately many of them need to be replaced.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Um what?

MacGregor was here for the entire duration of the Kevin Prendergast regime as head scout, that is also true of other scouts who are still with us right now, so if you are going to lump them all as having piss poor drafting records, what distinguishes Stu MacGregor from let's say Bill Dandy or Frantisek Musil? Why was he the one that got promoted?

I haven't seen their individual draft lists have you? Ultimately Stu had the final say and I would assume if he wasn't confident in his scouts he would've had the ability to can some of them which he didn't.

As for why Stu was promoted, are you trying to tell me that whenever someone is promoted they are always the best person for the job? That's not how it works in the non sports world why would you think that it works in this case? There are always exceptions and sometimes better workers get passed up for a variety of reasons. Maybe Stu talked a better game? I have no idea, regardless he's toast and IMO that's a good thing.

 

[McShogun99]

It's sad when the majority of the posters on this message board have better draft lists then out scouts. Most people here just go by the basic scouting reports. If our scouts did that they'd all still have a job and we would t be drafting Mcdavid this year.

 

[Aequitas]

he also said it's disgusting that he was getting criticized while he had cancer.

at the time when he was sick and working for tsn, he was only getting blamed for his coaching skills, that's all. there was debate as to if he was a good coach or not.
the fact he was ill (which not many people knew about) while his coaching merits were debated doesn't deserve to be called disgusting by anyone.

anyway. it's off topic so I'll drop it.

I think we all agree that by saying we're happy scouts got fired, says nothing about the scouts as people, and of course we're not filled with glee that people lost their job.
We just think the scouts were doing a really poor job and unfortunately many of them need to be replaced.

People can call it disgusting if they want and I would be one of them. The general attitude of people here is not one I would promote. Be upset and voice your opinion for change? Hell yes. Sit there and bash a guy after he has already been fired and hope his life gets worse. Not for me thanks.

Edit: I like to come here and discuss the merits of certain moves the team can or has made. I also like to read the general feelings of other fans when news comes out. Also there is quite a good knowledge base here for history, analytics, traditional scouting and so forth. The recent trend of threads meant to belittle players and management because of lack of success does not bring me enjoyment at all.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

People can call it disgusting if they want and I would be one of them. The general attitude of people here is not one I would promote. Be upset and voice your opinion for change? Hell yes. Sit there and bash a guy after he has already been fired and hope his life gets worse. Not for me thanks.

MacT hasn't been fired and is Chia's number two man according to Chia himself.

MacT shouldn't have any role in the organization going forward. Along with the sacking of all these scouts, a clear environment of accountability should be established.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Chia confirmed what I had suspected that the list was going to be changing. The list that the other scouts were privy to will be changed by draft day and the guys that were determined to be the weak links really have no input anymore. They are trusting in their remaining scouts, Howson and Green to get the job done.

We all suspected that

 

[belair]

Is there something to our guy from the Q not getting sacked?

The drafting from there hasn't been that impressive in recent history.

Possibly more fuel to the Meier/Svechnikov talk?