Post-Game Talk: #59 | Flyers at Oilers | February 21, 2023

[Beef Invictus]

The Flyers should really give Sandstrom some more starts to showcase him for the trade deadline.

In fact, they should start showcasing him for next year's deadline. Give him the rest of the season's games.

There was a lot of cap-tipping from the Oilers PBP guys throughout the game that the Flyers were doing exactly what they had to do -- grinding the game to a standstill -- to have a chance at winning because they were so far behind in the skill department.

They've become every team we despised watching games against for years.

 

[wasup]

Imagine arguing that goaltending hasn't floated this team higher in the standings than they should be. It's like arguing electricity won't electrocute you.

Who gives a flying F$%k , last time I check goaltenders were part of the team . You think Tampa win without Vas same with Rangers and Winnipeg and pretty every other team that is doing well . We have decent tending now for a change and i'm sure the hell not complaining about .

 

[Ghosts Beer]

They hung in there great limiting the great McDavid and company to 12 shots on goal 47 mins into the game . Lycksell took a stupid 4 min deserved penalty and the momentum changed . McDavid,s goals were flicking the puck down the ice and an attempted pass that banked of Sandheim and went into the goal . Cates Allison and Laughton were matched up head to head most of the time and Cates and Allison ended up plus 1 on the night .

People on here thinking Edmonton are so great have shit for brains . 5vs 5 play they are crap their only thing they have is a powerplay and they have to rely on getting pp time to try to win a game . Stay out of the box and they are hooped . If Edmonton played in the east they are a bubble playoff team .

The careless Farabee & Lycksell penalties really hurt what otherwise was a mostly terrific team defensive effort.

And Edmonton is going nowhere the way I’ve seen them play lately.

 

[Useless plug]

Being 25th in a 32 team league despite getting mostly great goaltending shows what kind of coach Torts is in 2023.

fall hard for Connor Bedard baby!

The careless Farabee & Lycksell penalties really hurt what otherwise was a mostly terrific team defensive effort.

And Edmonton is going nowhere the way I’ve seen them play lately.

Sadly, I agree that the oil are likely DOA in this years playoffs (I think they get in though).

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who gives a flying F$%k , last time I check goaltenders were part of the team . You think Tampa win without Vas same with Rangers and Winnipeg and pretty every other team that is doing well . We have decent tending now for a change and i'm sure the hell not complaining about .

It matters when someone is pretending the skaters are much better than they are. That group is even more important than the goalies, since you always lose without scoring goals. A certain individual is attempting to shift the goalies' credit where it doesn't belong to pretend things aren't as bad as they are.

 

[bennysflyers16]

In case anyone was wondering,

a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

 

[deadhead]

The goaltending is above average, but far from elite.
Sandstrom has done more harm than Ersson has done good.
And Hart has been good, but not Hellenbuyck ridiculous (or Hart 2019-20 playoffs good).
So maybe 2-4 extra points, but not a huge swing due to goaltending.

 

[dragonoffrost]

The goaltending is above average, but far from elite.
Sandstrom has done more harm than Ersson has done good.
And Hart has been good, but not Hellenbuyck ridiculous (or Hart 2019-20 playoffs good).
So maybe 2-4 extra points, but not a huge swing due to goaltending.

You might want to look at HDSV% Hart is 8th in all goalies over 1800 minutes which is approximately 30 games played so a good portion of the games for most teams. He's saving their freaking bacon. And who is .003 ahead of him? The guy you call ridiculous.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The goaltending is above average, but far from elite.
Sandstrom has done more harm than Ersson has done good.
And Hart has been good, but not Hellenbuyck ridiculous (or Hart 2019-20 playoffs good).
So maybe 2-4 extra points, but not a huge swing due to goaltending.

This is already debunked today. It's much better than "above average." Besides, your definition of "elite" is slippery and nonsense. Like when you once described Backstrom as elite, but Giroux as decidedly not elite.

Sandstrom is -7 in the W/L column with 1 loser point. Erson is +6.

Combined, the backups have cost us a single point in the standings. Hardly the grim picture you're trying to paint. And nah, it's definitely more than 2-4 extra points. With a lesser goalie than Ersson (who has been fantastic) in his starts, they don't have close to his six wins. I think we've all lost track of the number of games Hart has been the chief factor in.

 

[wasup]

It matters when someone is pretending the skaters are much better than they are. That group is even more important than the goalies, since you always lose without scoring goals. A certain individual is attempting to shift the goalies' credit where it doesn't belong to pretend things aren't as bad as they are.

Well the skaters are better than you are giving them credit for . I will take the somewhere between the two of ya for 400 Alex .

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well the skaters are better than you are giving them credit for . I will take the somewhere between the two of ya for 400 Alex .

What do you mean? I give them all their due credit for being the 27th ranked offense in the league for actual goal production, 27th in xGF/60, 25th in xGF%, and on the defensive side 23rd in xGA/60.

In other words, they are mega shitty. Among the worst in the league. That's what they are. Those are the hard numbers. The results of their play. By the numbers and by the eye.

You're giving them way too much credit if you think they're any better than "bottom of the league" quality.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You might want to look at HDSV% Hart is 8th in all goalies over 1800 minutes which is approximately 30 games played so a good portion of the games for most teams. He's saving their freaking bacon. And who is .003 ahead of him? The guy you call ridiculous.

You're talking to a guy that claims that Torts made it easier on the goalies sometime early on in the season but at that same time Flyers goalies faced more high and medium danger chances than previous years.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There was a time when Tortorella might have made life easier for goalies*. Then teams started looking high and setting up mini-rushes in the zone from the blue line and from higher along the sides. With defenders standing by waiting to block shots, they hand over initiative and get caught flatfooted, being picked apart now for an onslaught of HD chances.

*A decade ago, when it was all about about pucks deep, grinding low, setting up chances from down low. Conditional on whether or not you think it's really "Easier" for a goalie to be facing a constant cycle, because Tortorella teams were often stuck in their own end against good teams.

I cannot figure out how anyone who witnessed the evolution of hockey from 2000 through 2023 can possibly look at Tortorella's usual style, and where the game has gone/is going, and think: "This is surely the way of the future."

 

[belair]

What is your offer?

Yes.

 

[VladDrag]

Well the skaters are better than you are giving them credit for . I will take the somewhere between the two of ya for 400 Alex .

10 or 11 of the 12 regular forwards and all 6 defenseman have been good enough to start on most teams in the NHL, so yeah, the individual skaters are not terrible. However, they are missing like 4 or 5 top 6 forwards, and a top pair defenseman. So sure, with the execution of a few players, the individual players are not terrible.

But the makeup of the roster is very bad. The overall outcome is what matters, not the individual skill level of each player.

 

[wasup]

10 or 11 of the 12 regular forwards and all 6 defenseman have been good enough to start on most teams in the NHL, so yeah, the individual skaters are not terrible. However, they are missing like 4 or 5 top 6 forwards, and a top pair defenseman. So sure, with the execution of a few players, the individual players are not terrible.

But the makeup of the roster is very bad. The overall outcome is what matters, not the individual skill level of each player.

Yes I agree with this but they are playing withy a dump and grind coach . He is a coach that wants to win 1-0 or 2-1 . He hates east west play and trying to create stuff off the rush so scoring will not be what it could be .

We are missing a top pair D { Ellis } and 4 top 6 forwards { Coots Atkinson } so in reality we need two more top six forwards plus a top pair D cause Ellis is not coming back . It's never as bad as some on here make it out to be but it also is not as good as a couple on here think in over rating our prospects .

 

[BernieParent]

Yes.

Deal if you add in an Unlikely from your AHL team and a 2024 Maybe.

 

[deadhead]

Funny thing, Edmonton was dumping and grinding all game, just weren't very good at it until the 3rd period when the road trip got to the Flyers' legs.

There's a myth that teams skate the puck in, but the stats say that even the best teams dump it in 50% of the time. And I suspect most of the teams on the high end have elite playmakers who skew those stats.

Yes, Torts discourages East-West passing, b/c it doesn't move the puck up ice and leads to dangerous turnovers, especially when you lack the players who have the experience, vision and passing skills to pull that off.

Don't people say you should adjust your scheme to your players? So other than TDA (who has other issues), who exactly is a playmaker on this roster? York has potential but is inconsistent night to night. Sanheim has his head up his butt and Provorov is best without the puck.

Frost is slightly above average but he's got a long way to go. Brink is in LHV. JVR isn't a bad passer but lacks the speed to push the puck up ice, he's better set up in the O-zone. Tippett and TK can skate the puck up, but neither is a great playmaker (TK forces too many passes when he should shoot). And the rest???

 

[Beef Invictus]

I remember when it was claimed fitness and "losing their legs" wouldn't be a problem anymore because Tortorella would fix it.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


If you think east-west passing doesn't move the puck up ice you aren't watching the rest of the NHL, and you aren't even watching Tippett as much as you've claimed.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Jakub Atkinson was good in transition.

As was Claude Tippet.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Yes I agree with this but they are playing withy a dump and grind coach . He is a coach that wants to win 1-0 or 2-1 . He hates east west play and trying to create stuff off the rush so scoring will not be what it could be .

We are missing a top pair D { Ellis } and 4 top 6 forwards { Coots Atkinson } so in reality we need two more top six forwards plus a top pair D cause Ellis is not coming back . It's never as bad as some on here make it out to be but it also is not as good as a couple on here think in over rating our prospects .

Thats a very simplistic view on our problems!

1. We miss a no1 dman you cant trade for and you have no picks and no salary space
2. We miss a top.4 dman you could trade for but we have no picks and no salary space and no pieces for a trade
3. We miss a whole first line (no one knows how coots will come back) you cant trade for and we have no picks and no cap space.
4. Our 4th line is the worst line in the NHL
5. We have no 2nd line Center and no picks or salary to trade for one

I cant do this further cause i would vomit the next sentence!