GDT: #53 – Capitals at Sabres – Tue Jan 28 – 7:30 PM EST – NBCSN, TSN2 – WGR-550

[dotcommunism]

Because he had 61 pts in 82 games. 24 goals the most ever in his career.

Even if you're going to reduce it to just points, he had better point production coming off the lockout and had two pretty awful seasons in Buffalo before his one year bounceback with Atlanta. Considering his KHL production after he left has been pretty bad too (or decent at best), I think it's pretty safe to dismiss that one year as an outlier rather than a sign he was even remotely at the top of his game

 

[ZZamboni]

because... POINTS!

Isn't that the same argument some Afinogenov suppporters said?


Ennis, like Afinogenov is a complimentary piece that is replaceable. Speedy dipsy doodler that doesn't consistently use his line mates well. For a team game, that's frustrating to watch.

 

[Kyndig]

Even if you're going to reduce it to just points, he had better point production coming off the lockout and had two pretty awful seasons in Buffalo before his one year bounceback with Atlanta. Considering his KHL production after he left has been pretty bad too (or decent at best), I think it's pretty safe to dismiss that one year as an outlier rather than a sign he was even remotely at the top of his game

I don't consider the season after lockout to be a good one to measure. Everyone was scoring more that season, they actually called interference and ****.

 

[EichHart]

Where's the PGT?

 

[B U F F A L O]

When Hodgson was putting up points on the so-called "top line", it wasn't uncommon for people to claim he was only riding on the coattails of others. Just sayin'

But whatever, I never went with that myself. Obviously when (if?) Ennis can consistently produce like Hodgson has irrespective of linemates the likes of Ott, D'ags, Leino, etc. then Ennis will be in the same offensive camp. But for now at least, Ennis is still young and has time to develop.

I dunno about developing offense so much, but experience can fill in offensive lapses and defense can be taught (see: Hodgson ).

Are you suggesting that Ennis didnt produce last year playing with bums? Leino, Ott, Gerbe, Foligno, Stafford... he still produced playing with them too.

 

[ZZamboni]

Where's the PGT?

If you don't see one, make one

 

[EichHart]

If you don't see one, make one

Haha I can't I didn't watch the entire game. I'd feel like a liar. My wife made me watch something else that I will not disclose.

 

[dotcommunism]

I don't consider the season after lockout to be a good one to measure. Everyone was scoring more that season, they actually called interference and ****.

That just makes his one outlier year even more of an outlier and further reinforces the argument that he was not a particularly good hockey player

 

[mikemcburn]

Are you suggesting that Ennis didnt produce last year playing with bums? Leino, Ott, Gerbe, Foligno, Stafford... he still produced playing with them too.

Is that really all you got out of what I said?

Anyway (and still without dissing on Ennis, btw ), last year wouldn't be a good example to use if one wanted to prove Ennis can produce with "bums"...

The reason his -14 was good for 2nd worst among all Sabres despite being 3rd in total points, is because 14 of his 31 points (so nearly half) came on the power play with the top unit. Heck, Ennis lead all forwards in power play minutes at 159:00, which, btw, was good for averaging almost a full minute more than, say, Hodgson.

Meaning, over 47 games playing with "bums" at even strength, Ennis managed only 17 points. 17 ES points yet 2nd among all forwards for ES minutes. That's not exactly a stats record to use as proof he can consistently produce no matter who is linemates are.

But again, not dissing on Ennis, just sayin' he hasn't exactly shown the consistent offensive talents necessary to carry a 1st or 2nd line solo. I'm in the camp of thinking his offensive game will top out as a solid 3C, a two-way one at that if he develops his defense game (at least defense can be taught).

But hey, that's only my theory and I envision Hodgson as a quality 2C while others think he's made to be an elite 1C. Go figure. Time will tell.

 

[sba]

you crack me up

He's not??

 

[stokes84]

Isn't that the same argument some Afinogenov suppporters said?


Ennis, like Afinogenov is a complimentary piece that is replaceable. Speedy dipsy doodler that doesn't consistently use his line mates well. For a team game, that's frustrating to watch.

Ennis is nothing like Afinogenov, the fact you say this shows you don't know what you are looking at.

This thread went full Eager mode. Moulson didn't handle an easy pass, but it's Ennis's fault, because it fits the agenda. Hilarious.

 

[Zman5778]

Ennis is nothing like Afinogenov

I know you're an Ennis fan. There's nothing wrong with that.

But to blanket say that Ennis is nothing like Afinogenov is just folly. There are things Tyler does that Max doesn't (hey, at least Tyler TRIES to defense)...........but there are a NUMBER of striking similarities to their games. A number.

 

[B U F F A L O]

Is that really all you got out of what I said?

Anyway (and still without dissing on Ennis, btw ), last year wouldn't be a good example to use if one wanted to prove Ennis can produce with "bums"...

The reason his -14 was good for 2nd worst among all Sabres despite being 3rd in total points, is because 14 of his 31 points (so nearly half) came on the power play with the top unit. Heck, Ennis lead all forwards in power play minutes at 159:00, which, btw, was good for averaging almost a full minute more than, say, Hodgson.

Meaning, over 47 games playing with "bums" at even strength, Ennis managed only 17 points. 17 ES points yet 2nd among all forwards for ES minutes. That's not exactly a stats record to use as proof he can consistently produce no matter who is linemates are.

But again, not dissing on Ennis, just sayin' he hasn't exactly shown the consistent offensive talents necessary to carry a 1st or 2nd line solo. I'm in the camp of thinking his offensive game will top out as a solid 3C, a two-way one at that if he develops his defense game (at least defense can be taught).

But hey, that's only my theory and I envision Hodgson as a quality 2C while others think he's made to be an elite 1C. Go figure. Time will tell.

Good points when you break it down that way.

Your initial statement jumped out at me right away, because Hodgson has literally only produced with lesser quality teammates in this stretch since he has come back from injury. Its such a small sample size to be making that claim in my opinion. I dont remember exactly when Ennis bumped Hodgson from top line after Vanek trade but I know Hodgson played with Matty Mo for a little bit and wasnt doing much. He had 4 pts in 13 game stretch between Vanek trade and injury.

I also see Hodgson as a good 2C for this team down the road, and I dont think Ennis has any type of future on the team at C. I think hed be a good 2nd line winger.

 

[stokes84]

I know you're an Ennis fan. There's nothing wrong with that.

But to blanket say that Ennis is nothing like Afinogenov is just folly. There are things Tyler does that Max doesn't (hey, at least Tyler TRIES to defense)...........but there are a NUMBER of striking similarities to their games. A number.

Let's put it this way, there is a reason Ennis has been the forward Nolan has counted on more than anyone since he took over. He brings energy and effort in every shift, and it is combined with a higher skill level than anyone on the team. And, despite the reactions here, it's generally a very responsible game. Yeah, he has the occasional brain fart (who on this team doesn't?) but the hate around here is amusing. Some people wouldn't know a good player if it hit them in the face.

The "OMG, he dangles, he must be like Afinogenov" crowd is clueless.

 

[Jame]

Let's put it this way, there is a reason Ennis has been the forward Nolan has counted on more than anyone since he took over. He brings energy and effort in every shift, and it is combined with a higher skill level than anyone on the team. And, despite the reactions here, it's generally a very responsible game. Yeah, he has the occasional brain fart (who on this team doesn't?) but the hate around here is amusing. Some people wouldn't know a good player if it hit them in the face.

The "OMG, he dangles, he must be like Afinogenov" crowd is clueless.

Your argument is the coach who puts sulzer on the ice in the final minute? The coach who puts the 4th line out against Crosby? The coach who moves Leino to the 1st line?

Lol

 

[ZZamboni]

Let's put it this way, there is a reason Ennis has been the forward Nolan has counted on more than anyone since he took over. He brings energy and effort in every shift, and it is combined with a higher skill level than anyone on the team. And, despite the reactions here, it's generally a very responsible game. Yeah, he has the occasional brain fart (who on this team doesn't?) but the hate around here is amusing. Some people wouldn't know a good player if it hit them in the face.

The "OMG, he dangles, he must be like Afinogenov" crowd is clueless.

Put simply, I like Ennis. I do. Some games I watch him, and he reminds me of Afinogenov

Other games he doesn't. I like that Ennis a lot.


If you honestly don't see any similarities AT ALL ... Who's truly clueless? Or just refuse to be open to it.

 

[mikemcburn]

Good points when you break it down that way.

Your initial statement jumped out at me right away, because Hodgson has literally only produced with lesser quality teammates in this stretch since he has come back from injury. Its such a small sample size to be making that claim in my opinion. I dont remember exactly when Ennis bumped Hodgson from top line after Vanek trade but I know Hodgson played with Matty Mo for a little bit and wasnt doing much. He had 4 pts in 13 game stretch between Vanek trade and injury.

I also see Hodgson as a good 2C for this team down the road, and I dont think Ennis has any type of future on the team at C. I think hed be a good 2nd line winger.

Yeah, gottcha. Totally.

For me, the Hodgson sample size is a bit bigger than this last 9 game (post injury) stretch - I watched him consistently produce his rookie year with the Canucks and iced with 3rd and 4th line plugs. Comparably, my view of Ennis is limited really to this season (being a newb Sabre fan ).

I'm pretty much locked in the thinking Hodgson is a good piece to have; his offensive talents are obvious and defense can be taught. For Ennis, I'm up in the air. I just find it hard to judge him on his seemingly poor stats given that he's basically the same age as Hodgson and has seem the same offensive and defensive challenges that come from revolving linemates and the general rebuild gong show.

It's Moulson who hasn't impressed me, and so I can't judge against either Hodgson or Ennis for their results when playing with him.

I look at this way - first Moulson/Hodgson seemed to click for quality offense, but when that faded Moulson was teamed with Ennis and they initially clicked too, but have since faded as well... Could put the fade of both Moulson/Hodgson and Moulson/Ennis down to both duets lacking a stable quality 3rd linemate, or just fault Hodgson and Ennis. But I see Moulson as the common denominator.

Consider their last 10 games played -
Hodgson: 10pts (5G,5A) with multiple players
Ennis: 9 points (3G,6A) with Hodgson and/or Moulson
Moulson: 5pts (1G,4A) with Hodgson and/or Ennis

So yeah, I don't think it's Hodgson or Ennis riding on Moulson's coattails, but Moulson (and his measly 0.59 pts/game despite the ice time, choice offensive opportunities and best linemates the team can muster) riding on theirs. Just sayin'.

On the other hand, perhaps it's just that I'm tired of watching how easily Moulson is pushed to his butt or stomach in the offensive zone. It's all great that he's willing to go for the gritty crease goals, but he hasn't shown either the body strength of a "power forward" who pulls that duty to perfection, or the hands or shot of a Hodgson or the heart of a Ennis digging in the corners...

Anyway, all in, if Moulson is so great, let's see if he can carry a line solo (or at least make his linemates better) cuz I'd like to see Ennis/Hodgson/Girgs for a good stretch. Some speed, heart, hands and physical power all in one line. Maybe one day.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Game Recap and Postgame Interviews

POST-GAME NEWSLETTER: Washington Capitals @ Buffalo Sabres

GAME RECAP: VARONE SCORES 1ST NHL GOAL IN OT LOSS

Post-Game Report: 1/28 vs. WSH

[NHL]550611[/NHL]
Brian Duff and Dan Dunleavy recap the Sabres 5-4 overtime loss.

[NHL]550558[/NHL]
Ted Nolan speaks with the media following the Sabres 5-4 overtime loss.

[NHL]550727[/NHL]
Cody Hodgson speaks with the media following the Sabres 5-4 overtime loss.

[NHL]550726[/NHL]
Phil Varone speaks with the media following the Sabres 5-4 overtime loss.

[NHL]550720[/NHL]
Jhonas Enroth speaks with the media following the Sabres 5-4 overtime loss.

 

[Moskau]

Anyway, all in, if Moulson is so great, let's see if he can carry a line solo (or at least make his linemates better) cuz I'd like to see Ennis/Hodgson/Girgs for a good stretch. Some speed, heart, hands and physical power all in one line. Maybe one day.

Or lets just get rid of him because he's useless.

 

[Kyndig]

Yeah, gottcha. Totally.

For me, the Hodgson sample size is a bit bigger than this last 9 game (post injury) stretch - I watched him consistently produce his rookie year with the Canucks and iced with 3rd and 4th line plugs. Comparably, my view of Ennis is limited really to this season (being a newb Sabre fan ).

I'm pretty much locked in the thinking Hodgson is a good piece to have; his offensive talents are obvious and defense can be taught. For Ennis, I'm up in the air. I just find it hard to judge him on his seemingly poor stats given that he's basically the same age as Hodgson and has seem the same offensive and defensive challenges that come from revolving linemates and the general rebuild gong show.

It's Moulson who hasn't impressed me, and so I can't judge against either Hodgson or Ennis for their results when playing with him.

I look at this way - first Moulson/Hodgson seemed to click for quality offense, but when that faded Moulson was teamed with Ennis and they initially clicked too, but have since faded as well... Could put the fade of both Moulson/Hodgson and Moulson/Ennis down to both duets lacking a stable quality 3rd linemate, or just fault Hodgson and Ennis. But I see Moulson as the common denominator.

Consider their last 10 games played -
Hodgson: 10pts (5G,5A) with multiple players
Ennis: 9 points (3G,6A) with Hodgson and/or Moulson
Moulson: 5pts (1G,4A) with Hodgson and/or Ennis

So yeah, I don't think it's Hodgson or Ennis riding on Moulson's coattails, but Moulson (and his measly 0.59 pts/game despite the ice time, choice offensive opportunities and best linemates the team can muster) riding on theirs. Just sayin'.

On the other hand, perhaps it's just that I'm tired of watching how easily Moulson is pushed to his butt or stomach in the offensive zone. It's all great that he's willing to go for the gritty crease goals, but he hasn't shown either the body strength of a "power forward" who pulls that duty to perfection, or the hands or shot of a Hodgson or the heart of a Ennis digging in the corners...

Anyway, all in, if Moulson is so great, let's see if he can carry a line solo (or at least make his linemates better) cuz I'd like to see Ennis/Hodgson/Girgs for a good stretch. Some speed, heart, hands and physical power all in one line. Maybe one day.

I think someone already made a similar argument on the Islanders board. Problem was Moulson actually produced more without Tavares and Tavares produced substantially less without Moulson.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[mikemcburn]

I think someone already made a similar argument on the Islanders board. Problem was Moulson actually produced more without Tavares and Tavares produced substantially less without Moulson.

Interesting. Tavares was a 0.98 pt/g player with Moulson last year, while this season he's up to 1.19 pt/g. Sure, some of that obviously came from the 11 games he got with Moulson, but he hasn't exactly slowed down during the last 38 games with Vanek.

In any case, I'm not suggesting that players don't generally do better with better linemates, or that Moulson in particular hasn't or wouldn't prop someone else - only that he hasn't propped up Hodgson or Ennis and, to the extent they both seem able to produce with/without Moulson while he's faded off to half the their pace, it's possible he's the coattail rider.