GDT: #51 ⋅ ANA @ CGY ⋅ 6:00 PM PST

[robbieboy3686]

Closest thing to a playoff game there has been this decade, our players know verbeek took swings for marchesault and stamkos, that we brought in Trouba and resigned vatrano. And that the break is coming up. And if we finish strong, we could be buyers by the deadline ( sell off dumo to let the kids play and trade fabbri but look for an upgrade and top 6 forward)

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

If Zell is the better player, why Would people not be pissed about him leaving the lineup? I don’t think it’s so much about breaking up the lineup after wins.

Well Zelly is the better player if you want more offense or if the game is going to be a more up and down pace. Lots of penalties, Zelly being a PP1-2 guy also helps.

Helleson, also is currently better defensively, our mgmt is on record saying RHD and LHD are important to make break outs easier, which is something we struggle at.

If Johnston plugged in tonight for Leason, would people be upset ? They’d probably be upset if we went 0-3 the last 3, but the point stands.

I was making a joke that people will complain about anything Cronin does or doesn’t do.

Don’t start Zelly tonight and we lose, wasting his development.

Start Zelly and we lose, why change the lineup ?

I hope Zelly plays tonight because I think he gives us the best chance to win, if he doesn’t and we roll out the same lineups that have outscored opponents 16-7 the last 3 games….. well I can’t be mad, even if I think it’s the wrong deployment.

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

No way we win 4 in a row, right?

The losing has clouded my mind so much that I didn't believe we won the last 3. Or maybe it's the alcohol to cope with the losing. Chicken? Egg?

 

[ohcomeonref]

I’m not trying to feel superior and not making things up. I was responded to two people asking about Zelly, and multiple people are still complaint about his lack of playing time.

And im not trying to argue anything, just laughing that people would be upset if Zelly got scratched after we won 3 in a row, but I assume people asking where he is, implying negative things, mean they want him in.

Just because i agree he should get in, I spelt out a reason why, he is better suited for the tempo the game should be with the flames.

Not just development bad / Cronin bad.

I can think Zelly should play, but also not be upset if he doesn’t change the lineup that won 3 in a row.

But like I said, what do you think would happen….. honestly.

If we win the next 3 games with Zelly and Minty in, then sub helleson for one of them ? Would this sub not be pissed off ? If you think they’d be happy and go, Cronin making chess moves !!!! Cronin is so smart helping develop these kids…. You’d be lying to yourself.

A lot of us are more concerned with our youth getting playing time and taking steps forward than wins.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

A lot of us are more concerned with our youth getting playing time and taking steps forward than wins.

Get that, and even though I agree. Dumo / Gudas / trouba / LaCombe aren’t sitting out, so it’s Minty / Zelly / Helleson for 2 spots.

I bet some of the people more concerned with youth getting playing time were also against tanking for Bedard because “losing culture”.

This is the biggest game we’ve had in years in terms of playoff caliber and it’s the last game in Jan, that’s embarrassing hahaha.

We should be icing the team that gives us the best chance to win, I think swapping helleson and Zelly for realistic teams, gives us the best shot. But I can’t argue if we run the same lineup that’s won 3 in a row and outscored opponents 16-7…. No matter how poor the competition was.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’m not trying to feel superior and not making things up. I was responded to two people asking about Zelly, and multiple people are still complaint about his lack of playing time.

And im not trying to argue anything, just laughing that people would be upset if Zelly got scratched after we won 3 in a row, but I assume people asking where he is, implying negative things, mean they want him in.

Just because i agree he should get in, I spelt out a reason why, he is better suited for the tempo the game should be with the flames.

Not just development bad / Cronin bad.

I can think Zelly should play, but also not be upset if he doesn’t change the lineup that won 3 in a row.

But like I said, what do you think would happen….. honestly.

If we win the next 3 games with Zelly and Minty in, then sub helleson for one of them ? Would this sub not be pissed off ? If you think they’d be happy and go, Cronin making chess moves !!!! Cronin is so smart helping develop these kids…. You’d be lying to yourself.

Using your singular logic of wins and losses, should Helleson have played ever again because we lost four games with him in the lineup, including two shutouts? Nope, because he still needs to play to develop and the team isn't going to pin losses on one player. The Ducks still think Helleson has a good future to develop, higher than Vaak, who was used like a fringe, vet D man they didn't mind scratching for weeks on end.

With your acknowledgement that Zell is the better prospect and being okay with three consecutive healthy scratches, then it does make you wonder how does one develop if they're not on the ice playing games, earning game experiences, and trying to improve on-ice game? Zell was not scratched for bad play like Minty was earlier in the season. Zell was scratched due to rotation.

Anaheim is doing long rotations, apparently. That does make the development growth become slower because a youth can be out for a week or longer.

Since the Ducks don't have a fringe, vet D man in the AHL to bring up to help alleviate the rotation, we will continue to have this roster construction dilemma. We are in year 3 of the reset rebuild, which should be a development year. Instead, Verbeek now says there is competition to be in the lineup as youths, two of whom have less than a full NHL season's worth of game play experience. It sucks for any youth to be healthy scratched for rotational purposes, especially extended healthy scratches that can last a week or longer. That is a macro problem.

 

[Daz28]

What makes me giggle is….

If the shoe was on the other foot, and we won 3 straight against bad teams but Zelly was in for helleson all those games. If Cronin swapped them before this game, it would be “what an idiot, why break up the winning lineup?” You know things if they nature.

I say that as someone who thinks Zelly should and will draw tonight as his game is more suited against Calgary / he’s just better than helleson and it’s a must win.

But I do want to point out the hypocrisy that would happen if the opposite situation happened.

11-7?

 

[robbieboy3686]

Get that, and even though I agree. Dumo / Gudas / trouba / LaCombe aren’t sitting out, so it’s Minty / Zelly / Helleson for 2 spots.

I bet some of the people more concerned with youth getting playing time were also against tanking for Bedard because “losing culture”.

This is the biggest game we’ve had in years in terms of playoff caliber and it’s the last game in Jan, that’s embarrassing hahaha.

We should be icing the team that gives us the best chance to win, I think swapping helleson and Zelly for realistic teams, gives us the best shot. But I can’t argue if we run the same lineup that’s won 3 in a row and outscored opponents 16-7…. No matter how poor the competition was.

10000%

Using your singular logic of wins and losses, should Helleson have played ever again because we lost four games with him in the lineup, including two shutouts? Nope, because he still needs to play to develop and the team isn't going to pin losses on one player. The Ducks still think Helleson has a good future to develop, higher than Vaak, who was used like a fringe, vet D man they didn't mind scratching for weeks on end.

View attachment 969639

With your acknowledgement that Zell is the better prospect and being okay with three consecutive healthy scratches, then it does make you wonder how does one develop if they're not on the ice playing games, earning game experiences, and trying to improve on-ice game? Zell was not scratched for bad play like Minty was earlier in the season. Zell was scratched due to rotation.

Anaheim is doing long rotations, apparently. That does make the development growth become slower because a youth can be out for a week or longer.

Since the Ducks don't have a fringe, vet D man in the AHL to bring up to help alleviate the rotation, we will continue to have this roster construction dilemma. We are in year 3 of the reset rebuild, which should be a development year. Instead, Verbeek now says there is competition to be in the lineup as youths, two of whom have less than a full NHL season's worth of game play experience. It sucks for any youth to be healthy scratched for rotational purposes, especially extended healthy scratches that can last a week or longer. That is a macro problem.

Not if they are pounding them with video/tape breakdown and other kind of non game development . Minty has had a huge sophomore slump, playing less has probably eased that not hurt it. Helleson needs nhl reps to see what we have. Zellwegger is a gym/rink Rat hes fine.

 

[Terry Yake]

it'll be hilarious to see the flames go after helleson for the unfortunate incident that led to zary's injury while the ducks did absolutely nothing to retaliate for reinhart's actually dirty hit on lundestrom

 

[Lord Flashheart]

that's comically pessimistic - If the Ducks win tonight, they are 6 points out with 31 games left to play.

Actually, taking into account the level they played at so far in the season, "6 points out with 31 games left to play" is comically optimistic.

 

[quackquackquack]

Actually, taking into account the level they played at so far in the season, "6 points out with 31 games left to play" is comically optimistic.

I'm not saying we're going to do it and leapfrog all the teams ahead of us. Just simply saying its not impossible and not as glum as some posters are making it out to be.

We were all salivating for progress this season - the team has clearly gotten a lot better and that's despite some of the kids stagnating or getting off to slow starts. There's a lot to be optimistic about.

 

[MMC]

Ducks win 7-6. Hat trick for McTavish. Carlsson 0 points and -4

 

[AngelDuck]

that's comically pessimistic - If the Ducks win tonight, they are 6 points out with 31 games left to play.

It’s not comically pessimistic to say that if they want to have any realistic chance at making the playoffs, they can’t lose this game.

It’s the reality of where we are in the season

I’m not full on pessimistic about where the team stands moving into next year - it’s just pretty obvious that this season the playoffs are incredibly unlikely

 

[Hey234]

Big game. Should reveal a lot about the team. Hoping the offense won't disappear, and that they don't look overwhelmed. Would be a big locker room boost if they come out with a win. Probably the most excited I've been for a game all season. Please be a fun game

 

[Firequacker]

I’m not trying to feel superior and not making things up. I was responded to two people asking about Zelly, and multiple people are still complaint about his lack of playing time.

And im not trying to argue anything, just laughing that people would be upset if Zelly got scratched after we won 3 in a row, but I assume people asking where he is, implying negative things, mean they want him in.

Just because i agree he should get in, I spelt out a reason why, he is better suited for the tempo the game should be with the flames.

Not just development bad / Cronin bad.

You know, just because not everyone writes an essay for why they disagree with a thing Cronin does every single time they disagree with it, does not mean that you're the only person here who has reasons beyond "Cronin bad" to dislike Zelly sitting for so long.
Even Ryan Strome has commented on the team moving the puck better with Zellweger in. Is Strome also "Cronin bad" or is it possible that people other than you could have good reasons for wanting Zellweger to play?

I can think Zelly should play, but also not be upset if he doesn’t change the lineup that won 3 in a row.

But like I said, what do you think would happen….. honestly.

If we win the next 3 games with Zelly and Minty in, then sub helleson for one of them ? Would this sub not be pissed off ? If you think they’d be happy and go, Cronin making chess moves !!!! Cronin is so smart helping develop these kids…. You’d be lying to yourself.

God's sake, man...
Congratulations, you've just proved again that people get mad when Zellweger is scratched, but would also get mad when Zellweger is scratched in other hypothetical scenarios (which you made up). I don't have to lie to myself that it wouldn't happen, because I'm not the one trying to present a perfectly consistent position of "Zelly shouldn't be spending this much time in the press box" as some kind of rank anti-Cronin hypocrisy just because the team won a few games without him (despite how the anti-Cronin crowd has explained ad nauseum that wins are not as important as player development).

Editing because I was too annoyed to finish my thought: also you totally ignored me asking how Zellweger played in those hypothetical games, which would also have a big impact on how mad people would actually be if he got scratched after them. But in general he should be getting more games than Helleson anyway unless he absolutely crashes, because he's a better prospect.

 

[robbieboy3686]

it'll be hilarious to see the flames go after helleson for the unfortunate incident that led to zary's injury while the ducks did absolutely nothing to retaliate for reinhart's actually dirty hit on lundestrom

Did Zary miss time? I think lundy bring fine and not missing time is a main factor there. Although I don’t agree with it still. Reinhardt should’ve been challenged or at least slashed or something

Big game. Should reveal a lot about the team. Hoping the offense won't disappear, and that they don't look overwhelmed. Would be a big locker room boost if they come out with a win. Probably the most excited I've been for a game all season. Please be a fun game

Well written!

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I'm not saying we're going to do it and leapfrog all the teams ahead of us. Just simply saying its not impossible and not as glum as some posters are making it out to be.

We were all salivating for progress this season - the team has clearly gotten a lot better and that's despite some of the kids stagnating or getting off to slow starts. There's a lot to be optimistic about.

I didn't even say you are claiming it'll happen, and "comically optimistic" I used as a contrast to calling a perfectly reasonable take "comically pesimistic", while simultaneously casually dropping in we're 6 points out with the win.

But, the second paragraph of your post makes it clear we have completely different opinion with regards to progress and improvement of the team.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

You know, just because not everyone writes an essay for why they disagree with a thing Cronin does every single time they disagree with it, does not mean that you're the only person here who has reasons beyond "Cronin bad" to dislike Zelly sitting for so long.
Even Ryan Strome has commented on the team moving the puck better with Zellweger in. Is Strome also "Cronin bad" or is it possible that people other than you could have good reasons for wanting Zellweger to play?

God's sake, man...
Congratulations, you've just proved again that people get mad when Zellweger is scratched, but would also get mad when Zellweger is scratched in other hypothetical scenarios (which you made up). I don't have to lie to myself that it wouldn't happen, because I'm not the one trying to present a perfectly consistent position of "Zelly shouldn't be spending this much time in the press box" as some kind of rank anti-Cronin hypocrisy just because the team won a few games without him (despite how the anti-Cronin crowd has explained ad nauseum that wins are not as important as player development).

Editing because I was too annoyed to finish my thought: also you totally ignored me asking how Zellweger played in those hypothetical games, which would also have a big impact on how mad people would actually be if he got scratched after them. But in general he should be getting more games than Helleson anyway unless he absolutely crashes, because he's a better prospect.

Hey man I’m not trying to be combative, it was honestly a throw away comment, because 2 of the first 4 messages I saw in the game thread were complaining about Zelly. Just said i find it funny how it seems no matter what Cronin and this team does no one is satisfied.

Biggest game in the past 4-5 years, the offense is rolling, I just thought maybe a little more enthusiasm than the first couple comments being complaints.

Like I said just a throw away frustrated comment by me.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I'm not saying we're going to do it and leapfrog all the teams ahead of us. Just simply saying its not impossible and not as glum as some posters are making it out to be.

We were all salivating for progress this season - the team has clearly gotten a lot better and that's despite some of the kids stagnating or getting off to slow starts. There's a lot to be optimistic about.

Unless a miracle run of like 22-7-3 goes on we aren’t making the playoffs.

But teams we have to jump.

Blues - 2 pts in front of us, we have a game in hand. Play them twice (4 pts)

Utah - 2 pts in front of us, equal games played. Play them once (2 pts)

Flames - 7 pts in front of us, played one more game than them. Play 3 times (6 pts)

Canucks - 8 pts in front of us, (2WC), equal games played. Play 3 times (6 pts)

Kings - 10 pts in front of us, Divison 3rd, we e played 2 more games. They are struggling right now bad, and have a tough schedule. Play twice (4 pts)

Avalanche - no chance hahaha (1 WC) play once. -12 pts.

 

[Terry Yake]

Did Zary miss time? I think lundy bring fine and not missing time is a main factor there. Although I don’t agree with it still. Reinhardt should’ve been challenged or at least slashed or something


Well written!

zary hasn't skated since then

 

[eaterfan]

I'm not saying we're going to do it and leapfrog all the teams ahead of us. Just simply saying its not impossible and not as glum as some posters are making it out to be.

We were all salivating for progress this season - the team has clearly gotten a lot better and that's despite some of the kids stagnating or getting off to slow starts. There's a lot to be optimistic about.

As of 1/19/25 Money Puck had the Ducks at a 3.7% chance of making the playoffs. They have gone 3-1 since then, but I doubt the odds have moved much above 4%. Not impossible, but it's an unreasonable expectation.

Unless a miracle run of like 22-7-3 goes on we aren’t making the playoffs.

But teams we have to jump.

Blues - 2 pts in front of us, we have a game in hand. Play them twice (4 pts)

Utah - 2 pts in front of us, equal games played. Play them once (2 pts)

Flames - 7 pts in front of us, played one more game than them. Play 3 times (6 pts)

Canucks - 8 pts in front of us, (2WC), equal games played. Play 3 times (6 pts)

Kings - 10 pts in front of us, Divison 3rd, we e played 2 more games. They are struggling right now bad, and have a tough schedule. Play twice (4 pts)

Avalanche - no chance hahaha (1 WC) play once. -12 pts.

That's a lot of teams to jump. Not only do we need a miracle run. We can't have the teams ahead of us make a run, either.

All this is to say:

If you think we are out of the playoffs already we should be playing the young guys like Zell, Helleson, and Minty every night. If the season is over, why waste playing time on guys like Doumelin who is going to be gone next year when games actually matter?

If you think we have a shot at the playoffs we should be playing the young guys like Zell, Helleson, and Minty every night. If we need a huge run who do you think is going to take us to 22-7-3. Old guys who have their level of play set already and are on the downslope or young guys who may have something click and they elevate to a new level? We saw it with Lacombe last year after a slow start. Is it likely? No. But it's more likely. The Ducks have to hit a home run the rest of the season if they want to make the playoffs. Might as well send up the power hitters who may strike out instead of the slappy utility guys who might get you a single.

If this team was close to the playoffs right now or in a spot and trying to hold on, then sure, keep the vets playing so the floor doesn't fall out or maybe a little bump in their play is good enough to make up 2 points to get us in. But that isn't the case right now.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

As of 1/19/25 Money Puck had the Ducks at a 3.7% chance of making the playoffs. They have gone 3-1 since then, but I doubt the odds have moved much above 4%. Not impossible, but it's an unreasonable expectation.

That's a lot of teams to jump. Not only do we need a miracle run. We can't have the teams ahead of us make a run, either.

All this is to say:

If you think we are out of the playoffs already we should be playing the young guys like Zell, Helleson, and Minty every night. If the season is over, why waste playing time on guys like Doumelin who is going to be gone next year when games actually matter?

If you think we have a shot at the playoffs we should be playing the young guys like Zell, Helleson, and Minty every night. If we need a huge run who do you think is going to take us to 22-7-3. Old guys who have their level of play set already and are on the downslope or young guys who may have something click and they elevate to a new level? We saw it with Lacombe last year after a slow start. Is it likely? No. But it's more likely. The Ducks have to hit a home run the rest of the season if they want to make the playoffs. Might as well send up the power hitters who may strike out instead of the slappy utility guys who might get you a single.

If this team was close to the playoffs right now or in a spot and trying to hold on, then sure, keep the vets playing so the floor doesn't fall out or maybe a little bump in their play is good enough to make up 2 points to get us in. But that isn't the case right now.

I’d argue this game is kinda the make or break game though. Win tonight and there’s a sliver of hope. Lose tonight and pack it in and play the young ducks.

Also, we as fans may not care about wins and losses. But good luck not losing the room because you tell the vets hey, we don’t care about even trying to go on a run. If we truly are concerned about how we are viewed as a FA destination across the league and our locker room. I think packing it in for development in late Jan / early Feb within “striking distance” and benching vets, might not be the best way to do that.

As to whether the young guns give a better chance to win every night, you’re probably right, but also tough to bench your captain, who probably is the most deserving of not playing every night.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Using your singular logic of wins and losses, should Helleson have played ever again because we lost four games with him in the lineup, including two shutouts? Nope, because he still needs to play to develop and the team isn't going to pin losses on one player. The Ducks still think Helleson has a good future to develop, higher than Vaak, who was used like a fringe, vet D man they didn't mind scratching for weeks on end.

View attachment 969639

With your acknowledgement that Zell is the better prospect and being okay with three consecutive healthy scratches, then it does make you wonder how does one develop if they're not on the ice playing games, earning game experiences, and trying to improve on-ice game? Zell was not scratched for bad play like Minty was earlier in the season. Zell was scratched due to rotation.

Anaheim is doing long rotations, apparently. That does make the development growth become slower because a youth can be out for a week or longer.

Since the Ducks don't have a fringe, vet D man in the AHL to bring up to help alleviate the rotation, we will continue to have this roster construction dilemma. We are in year 3 of the reset rebuild, which should be a development year. Instead, Verbeek now says there is competition to be in the lineup as youths, two of whom have less than a full NHL season's worth of game play experience. It sucks for any youth to be healthy scratched for rotational purposes, especially extended healthy scratches that can last a week or longer. That is a macro problem.

Didn’t they bench helleson for 3 straight games after those 4 straight losses ?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Get that, and even though I agree. Dumo / Gudas / trouba / LaCombe aren’t sitting out, so it’s Minty / Zelly / Helleson for 2 spots.

I bet some of the people more concerned with youth getting playing time were also against tanking for Bedard because “losing culture”.

This is the biggest game we’ve had in years in terms of playoff caliber and it’s the last game in Jan, that’s embarrassing hahaha.

We should be icing the team that gives us the best chance to win, I think swapping helleson and Zelly for realistic teams, gives us the best shot. But I can’t argue if we run the same lineup that’s won 3 in a row and outscored opponents 16-7…. No matter how poor the competition was.

Anaheim had three youths in 2022-23 in Zegras, Drysdale, McTavish, and Dostal. Drysdale played eight games and injured for the rest of the season. Zegras played 81 games and Mac, as a rookie, played 80 games. Dostal got called up whenever Gibby got injured and saw 19 NHL games to get his feet wet; Gibby and Stolarz were ahead of Dostal in the depth chart.

No one was concerned about the youths getting playing time in 2022-23.

It's the rest of the 2022-23 roster that Verbeek acquired that summer made the team suck, especially on defense. No one cared about losing culture on the ice because the roster was designed to fail. I said this before the 2022-23 season started. Yet, the team still went out on the ice and played as competitively as they could every night, which was more consistent then than under Cronin.

HFboard members didn't want the tank thread talks pervading into every other thread. There's a significant difference between losing culture on the ice and losing culture in the message board. Also, the previous 3 out of 4 drafts had us dropping one slot down in the draft lottery. Guess what happened in the 2023 draft? We dropped one slot in the lottery.

 

[gilfaizon]

This is a massive game, the most hyped up I've been in a few years easily. Hope they come out hard

I refuse to believe that the Flames are a good team this year

Wolf has been stellar. Similar to our situation, but they have a bit more talent