5 players from 2018 World Junior Team Canada told to report to police

[DWI Dale]

Most likely probation for all. No jail time. Once they turn them themselves in, they will be released waiting first appearances. That's our Canadian justice system.

pleading guilty would certainly help with their sentence

 

[StormWatcher]

This.

Immediate gratification and cancel culture makes us want to condemn now so we can move onto the next issue, just based on internet speculation. Even once they are officially charged and the names come out, they are afforded their day in court.

Queue those who will take this as me defending the alleged behaviour. This is not that.

Sometimes there are obvious things that one can say (i.e. how the justice system works), that just don't need to be reiterated unless you do have an axe to grind or are getting defensive.

 

[Otto]

I think there was a similar post to a few of your posts, noting that we need to really have a court case with a ruling before 100% sure of their guilt or innocence. See post 17 (I could be wrong if assuming this is what DWI is talking about)
I dont see this giving the players a pass at all, just let the courts do their jobs!

Thanks, I see it now. (Was on ignore ) Ya, that's borderline cringe

 

[OMG67]

I think there was a similar post to a few of your posts, noting that we need to really have a court case with a ruling before 100% sure of their guilt or innocence. See post 17 (I could be wrong if assuming this is what DWI is talking about)
I dont see this giving the players a pass at all, just let the courts do their jobs!

That’s my post. First, we don’t know the facts of the case. We kind of have an understanding of what may have happened but without any real facts presented, it is irresponsible for anyone to make presumptions. We’ve seen far too many cases over the last 5 years or so that have been anywhere from complete fabrication to extreme exaggeration. In each of those cases, the accused (later proven innocent) faced tremendous loss of reputation and in many cases millions of dollars of salary and future salary.

I feel it is incumbent on us as a society to await the outcome before the public lynching takes place. We have a criminal justice system in place. Is it perfect? No. But, it is what we have. Let the system take care of the criminals and hand out justice.

I have a very difficult time with presumed guilt. As a society, we need to let the system run the process in due course. Those that toil in presumed guilt aren’t being productive in any way. The best outcome for those people after the fact is, “I told you so!” Well, what happens when they are wrong? “Oooopsie. Sorry about that. My bad.”

This is why I say let the system run its course. If they are guilty of what some suggest they are hands down guilty of, then they will face their punishment in accordance with the law.

 

[DWI Dale]

isn't presuming there may have been financial motivations from the victim even worse than presuming the guilt of the men who will be charged? i dunno, that's a pretty deadbeat thing to suggest imo.

i know who i'm giving the benefit of the doubt and it isn't the 5 hockey players that hockey canada/london police tried to shield from accountability.

 

[OMG67]

isn't presuming there may have been financial motivations from the victim even worse than presuming the guilt of the men who will be charged? i dunno, that's a pretty deadbeat thing to suggest imo.

i know who i'm giving the benefit of the doubt and it isn't the 5 hockey players that hockey canada/london police tried to shield from accountability.

I’m not presuming anything. That’s the point!

 

[OHLTG]

All we know is that several players were called to London involving the case. Some could be innocent, some guilty, all innocent, all guilty... who knows. Does it look good? Absolutely not. Am I going to assume in either direction? No. I just hope there's transparency when the time comes.

 

[DWI Dale]

No. I just hope there's transparency when the time comes.

that's always the worry. transparency HASN'T been present from hockey canada or london police until they were exposed in the media for an alleged cover up.

 

[OMG67]

I just hope there's transparency when the time comes.

And I think that, as a hockey fan, is the main point of interest. I don’t want to get into “if’s” but at the same time it looks like Hockey Canada paid hush $$$ to a victim. Again, I don’t really want it make any presumptions but that is a disgusting practise. I don’t need to know the facts of the criminal act. I only need to know the decision from the courts. BUT, on the potential coverup side involving Hockey Canada IS OF MAJOR INTEREST to me. That is where we really need to have full transparency. We’ve seen too many instances of hush money being doled out to keep things quiet. Those days need to be over.

 

[DWI Dale]

And I think that, as a hockey fan, is the main point of interest. I don’t want to get into “if’s” but at the same time it looks like Hockey Canada paid hush $$$ to a victim. Again, I don’t really want it make any presumptions but that is a disgusting practise. I don’t need to know the facts of the criminal act. I only need to know the decision from the courts. BUT, on the potential coverup side involving Hockey Canada IS OF MAJOR INTEREST to me. That is where we really need to have full transparency. We’ve seen too many instances of hush money being doled out to keep things quiet. Those days need to be over.

that's fair. i think the fact that london police didn't pursue charges in 2018 is pretty disgusting too. the facts didn't change in that time, but their willingness to pursue those facts changed after Rick Westhead made them look terrible.

 

[OMG67]

that's always the worry. transparency HASN'T been present from hockey canada or london police until they were exposed in the media for an alleged cover up.

We can 100% agree on that. That is a separate issue from a Criminal Case. Let the Criminal Case work its way through the courts. When that is done, continue to pull the curtain back on Hockey Canada. I think we all can agree we can do better and should make it a major focus going forward.

 

[DWI Dale]

also on that note, Westhead is the best journalist in canadian sports. so many hockey pundits refuse to touch this type of story and Westhead has been blowing the doors off the old boys club the last few years. he's a hero.

 

[OMG67]

that's fair. i think the fact that london police didn't pursue charges in 2018 is pretty disgusting too. the facts didn't change in that time, but their willingness to pursue those facts changed after Rick Westhead made them look terrible.

Yes, but as of now, you are assuming it is a nefarious reason. It could have been at the request of the victim. It could have been a lack of cooperation from witnesses at that time. It could have been a lack of evidence. There could be many viable reasons for that. We should not assume the London Police were complicit in some sort of conspiracy. They may very well have but assuming that at this point isn’t productive.

 

[DWI Dale]

i'm not assuming anything. they didn't pursue charges in 2018 and the only reason they did was because Westhead made them look complicit in the cover up. like i said, the facts did not change in this case, the London Police Dept.'s willingness to pursue the facts did. the only thing that changed was the public became aware.

 

[bobber]

Whatever happens with this issue it certainly is one hell of a black eye to the Canadian program going forward. Any person not familiar with the program and the rules in place would have a hard time understanding how players find time for extra curricular activities. Polite way of saying what was suppose to have occurred. In these days of social media and cancel culture best to let the courts decide the out come.

 

[DeletedAccountt]

Whatever happens with this issue it certainly is one hell of a black eye to the Canadian program going forward. Any person not familiar with the program and the rules in place would have a hard time understanding how players find time for extra curricular activities. Polite way of saying what was suppose to have occurred. In these days of social media and cancel culture best to let the courts decide the out come.

Ya Hockey Canada getting their ass handed to them on and off the ice these days

 

[rangersblues]

And I think that, as a hockey fan, is the main point of interest. I don’t want to get into “if’s” but at the same time it looks like Hockey Canada paid hush $$$ to a victim. Again, I don’t really want it make any presumptions but that is a disgusting practise. I don’t need to know the facts of the criminal act. I only need to know the decision from the courts. BUT, on the potential coverup side involving Hockey Canada IS OF MAJOR INTEREST to me. That is where we really need to have full transparency. We’ve seen too many instances of hush money being doled out to keep things quiet. Those days need to be over.

Being a hockey fan should have nothing to do with it. This goes well beyond the game.

That's what created this situation in the first place.

 

[I Loveallsports]

Report: 5 members of Canada’s 2018 junior hockey team to face sexual assault charges

Report: 5 members of Canada’s 2018 junior hockey team to face sexual assault charges

torontosun.com

 

[Dog Fan]

Yes, but as of now, you are assuming it is a nefarious reason. It could have been at the request of the victim. It could have been a lack of cooperation from witnesses at that time. It could have been a lack of evidence. There could be many viable reasons for that. We should not assume the London Police were complicit in some sort of conspiracy. They may very well have but assuming that at this point isn’t productive.

I understand and appreciate your point of view. I have convicted them already. My point of view was as a result of hearing Drake Batherson say in an interview-and im paraphrasing-I was invited to the room, I opened the door and saw what was happening and left.

Something bad was going on and it was enough that a good friend of the players involved, turned around and left. Too bad his good judgement did not extend to stopping what was happening.

 

[OMG67]

I understand and appreciate your point of view. I have convicted them already. My point of view was as a result of hearing Drake Batherson say in an interview-and im paraphrasing-I was invited to the room, I opened the door and saw what was happening and left.

Something bad was going on and it was enough that a good friend of the players involved, turned around and left. Too bad his good judgement did not extend to stopping what was happening.

Agreed. But, that is one account. Let’s wait to hear from all parties in an open court and not convict people based on a few pieces of unvetted evidence floating around in the public sphere. We should not be the judges of these types of alleged crimes. Let the professionals do what they do. If it is as bad as what is alleged and the circumstances are as alleged, I’m the first person to stand there saying, “Off with their heads!” Just let the courts figure it all out first. That is my ONLY point in all of this. There are far too many variables and assumptions that don’t have answers. I am sure all the facts will emerge and a just decision will be made.

 

[StormWatcher]

That’s my post. First, we don’t know the facts of the case. We kind of have an understanding of what may have happened but without any real facts presented, it is irresponsible for anyone to make presumptions. We’ve seen far too many cases over the last 5 years or so that have been anywhere from complete fabrication to extreme exaggeration. In each of those cases, the accused (later proven innocent) faced tremendous loss of reputation and in many cases millions of dollars of salary and future salary.

I feel it is incumbent on us as a society to await the outcome before the public lynching takes place. We have a criminal justice system in place. Is it perfect? No. But, it is what we have. Let the system take care of the criminals and hand out justice.

I have a very difficult time with presumed guilt. As a society, we need to let the system run the process in due course. Those that toil in presumed guilt aren’t being productive in any way. The best outcome for those people after the fact is, “I told you so!” Well, what happens when they are wrong? “Oooopsie. Sorry about that. My bad.”

This is why I say let the system run its course. If they are guilty of what some suggest they are hands down guilty of, then they will face their punishment in accordance with the law.

Can you please tell me which of these "far too many cases over the last 5 years....... where accused were proven innocent" you are referring to? That right there is quite the statement and needs to be fact checked. And as per the justice system you are hanging the balance of your belief in, "not guilty" does not mean "proven innocent."

I have worked in the system with both offenders and survivors. It is factually incorrect that there is some mass percentage of false accusers, in reality there is a mass of silent survivors due to comments and beliefs like yours.

 

[rangersblues]

Can you please tell me which of these "far too many cases over the last 5 years....... where accused were proven innocent" you are referring to? That right there is quite the statement and needs to be fact checked. And as per the justice system you are hanging the balance of your belief in, "not guilty" does not mean "proven innocent."
I have worked in the system with both offenders and survivors. It is factually incorrect that there is some mass percentage of false accusers, in reality there is a mass of silent survivors due to comments and beliefs like yours.

The sad fact is the victim is on trial as much as the accused in most cases.

 

[OMG67]

Can you please tell me which of these "far too many cases over the last 5 years....... where accused were proven innocent" you are referring to? That right there is quite the statement and needs to be fact checked. And as per the justice system you are hanging the balance of your belief in, "not guilty" does not mean "proven innocent."

I have worked in the system with both offenders and survivors. It is factually incorrect that there is some mass percentage of false accusers, in reality there is a mass of silent survivors due to comments and beliefs like yours.

I’m not having this conversation. There have been many false and/or exaggerated accusations that have been proven false in court or dropped before even going to court In recent years. If I start listing them all, all you will do is make excuses about how each one wasn’t false but only “not guilty” etc. Then it becomes a discussion of whether perversion is acceptable because what did happen was sick and/or disgusting or maybe there was a power imbalance and even if there was consent, there couldn’t really be consent because one person held power over the other etc.

I’ve heard it all before and I really don’t think that discussion is worth while.

The sad fact is the victim is on trial as much as the accused in most cases.

That is not true. It is incumbent on the accuser to prove their claim no matter what the crime is. The unfortunate part is the sensitivity of this particular crime that makes it more difficult to go through.

 

[StormWatcher]

I’m not having this conversation. There have been many false and/or exaggerated accusations that have been proven false in court or dropped before even going to court In recent years. If I start listing them all, all you will do is make excuses about how each one wasn’t false but only “not guilty” etc. Then it becomes a discussion of whether perversion is acceptable because what did happen was sick and/or disgusting or maybe there was a power imbalance and even if there was consent, there couldn’t really be consent because one person held power over the other etc.

I’ve heard it all before and I really don’t think that discussion is worth while.

??

All I asked for was receipts as to your claims. You have done the same on these forums. You have clearly had this conversation in your head, and decided you won't "win" so this is how you respond. The one thing I will take and be grateful for from this last post is that you're bowing out. I stated that I have firsthand experience in this field... on both sides... as a therapist (no one has any ulterior motives in a therapy room when what is said isn't being used in court.) Your coming at this with what? As a hockey fan? Someone with a guilty conscience needing that good 'ole cognitive dissonance? Or just someone with an ego that doesn't know when their take isn't needed.

 

[rangersblues]

That is not true. It is incumbent on the accuser to prove their claim no matter what the crime is. The unfortunate part is the sensitivity of this particular crime that makes it more difficult to go through.

If it's not true please explain to me why so many victims of sexual assaults are hesitant to even report the crime?