Value of: 4th overall pick (Utah)

[Garbageyuk]

Your credibility is in the toilet at this point with you refusing to admit your statement was wrong. Your gaslighting won’t work. You were wrong, period. There was no need to quote the entire thing again because it was already done for you once. Seeing as how that wasn’t enough, here you go:


There’s one. And call it what you want, a proposal or an “example”, at this point your grasping at straws to not admit you were wrong. He quite obviously threw out what he felt the value was…in a trade proposal thread no less. because it wasn’t in the wording that suits you, doesn’t change the fact that it was Mailoux and a first.

There’s the second one and clearly he’s not offering a first, Hage, AND Mailoux or another piece. It’s a first along with Hage or Mailoux or another prospect. Otherwise it would be worded differently such as 1st+Hage+Mailoux or similar prospect.

I’m done now. You’re clearly not conversing in good faith. I should’ve known better when you started out like a second grader, calling me a liar.

Have a good night.

The projection, mental gymnastics, and gaslighting here is just insane lol wow.

 

[Strickland]

Isles would offer some combo of Horvat, Romanov and Dobson to get the fourth overall. Doing Dobson AND Horvat probably needs much more than the fourth overall and would be complex from a cap standpoint for Utah, I'd think. Isles not trading any picks or their top 5 prospects in the deal, either.

 

[lanky]

Isles would offer some combo of Horvat, Romanov and Dobson to get the fourth overall. Doing Dobson AND Horvat probably needs much more than the fourth overall and would be complex from a cap standpoint for Utah, I'd think. Isles not trading any picks or their top 5 prospects in the deal, either.

Most Utah fans aren't satisfied with Hayton as 2C (I'm the oddball who thinks he's a good fit there). There's noone in the prospect pool that has potential to be an upgrade. There's really no other weakness in the org that needs to be addressed. This lottery win is a gift that allows the team to get that 2C offensive upgrade.

Horvat would be a short term answer but would come at the cost of a long term solution. Dobson is awesome but we already feel pretty strong at RD.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

If you don't already know this, take note :

SJS needs RHD
NSH needs RHD (but need C more)

CHI does NOT need RHD
UTA does NOT need RHD

NYI don't really need RHD in theory, but if they're young and high potential, they may need them, because Dobson and Pulock may both end up being traded

People offering Utah (or Chicago) RHD like Dobson in offers are likely wasting their time.

 

[TheKingPin]

I suspect Utah will make the pick at 4, but curious what opposing teams would offer up for this pick.

Utah's biggest need is a young 20s second-line center.

4th is a great spot to draft a 2C. Would Utah want Hagens given the similarity between him and Cooley?

 

[miscs75]

Isles would offer some combo of Horvat, Romanov and Dobson to get the fourth overall. Doing Dobson AND Horvat probably needs much more than the fourth overall and would be complex from a cap standpoint for Utah, I'd think. Isles not trading any picks or their top 5 prospects in the deal, either.

Offering up 2 of those to just get the #4 is TERRIBLE asset management and a great way for a GM to sabotage any chance of signing halfway decent players.

 

[Jakey53]

No, we need an additional center beyond Hayton.

Cooley
???
Hayton
Stenlund

McBain?

 

[Kshahdoo]

Isles would offer some combo of Horvat, Romanov and Dobson to get the fourth overall. Doing Dobson AND Horvat probably needs much more than the fourth overall and would be complex from a cap standpoint for Utah, I'd think. Isles not trading any picks or their top 5 prospects in the deal, either.

You would offer not Isles. I'm pretty sure Isles wouldn't.

 

[miscs75]

You would offer not Isles. I'm pretty sure Isles wouldn't.

You mean your team wouldn’t offer up a top forward and one of their top young defenseman just to get another top 5 pick in a weaker then usual draft?

 

[Strickland]

Offering up 2 of those to just get the #4 is TERRIBLE asset management and a great way for a GM to sabotage any chance of signing halfway decent players.

Why? The Isles should be rebuilding. Whether they actually are or will be is another discussion. But in this scenario, I'm moving as many pieces off this mediocre roster in the next few weeks to expedite a rebuild. If you do it well enough, with some more luck, this is a team poised for contention in 2 years.

EDIT: And obviously with two of those you'd need more than just the #4 overall headed back, as I said in my post. but Isles should be trying to get quality over quantity in these trades.

You would offer not Isles. I'm pretty sure Isles wouldn't.

Yeah because they're poorly run. Have been for years.

 

[miscs75]

Why? The Isles should be rebuilding. Whether they actually are or will be is another discussion. But in this scenario, I'm moving as many pieces off this mediocre roster in the next few weeks to expedite a rebuild. If you do it well enough, with some more luck, this is a team poised for contention in 2 years.

This obsession with rebuilding is comical. They don’t have a deep enough prospect pool to properly rebuild. Let’s also add on the fact that Engvall, Duclair, Mayfield, Pelech and Pulock all have multiple years left. If they were close to expiring then a rebuild is possible.
Now let’s go with your last sentence. You want to move out 2/4 of their top skilled roster players for hopes and dreams that won’t be ready for at minimum 3 seasons while leaving them no one else on the roster. This team can not rely on every prospect to develop as projected since it’s not even 100% possible for any team to luck out like that.
You want to rebuild properly. Without listing goalies, you keep the core (Horvat, Barzal, Romanov, Dobson and Holmstrom) and move out everyone else for futures then sign other players to short term prove it contracts. Let the prospects who are close to ready get a real shot during training camp to prove themselves then go from there. Not move out the higher end talent for a mediocre return that doesn’t benefit the team.

 

[seabass45]

Why? The Isles should be rebuilding. Whether they actually are or will be is another discussion. But in this scenario, I'm moving as many pieces off this mediocre roster in the next few weeks to expedite a rebuild. If you do it well enough, with some more luck, this is a team poised for contention in 2 years.

EDIT: And obviously with two of those you'd need more than just the #4 overall headed back, as I said in my post. but Isles should be trying to get quality over quantity in these trades.

I don't see us getting a good return by combining two core pieces for the 4th + _____. If you can't immediately identify that extra piece(s) that would make sense then it's definitely not worth doing this, you're probably going to get better value if you make separate deals.

 

[Strickland]

This obsession with rebuilding is comical. They don’t have a deep enough prospect pool to properly rebuild. Let’s also add on the fact that Engvall, Duclair, Mayfield, Pelech and Pulock all have multiple years left. If they were close to expiring then a rebuild is possible.
Now let’s go with your last sentence. You want to move out 2/4 of their top skilled roster players for hopes and dreams that won’t be ready for at minimum 3 seasons while leaving them no one else on the roster. This team can not rely on every prospect to develop as projected since it’s not even 100% possible for any team to luck out like that.
You want to rebuild properly. Without listing goalies, you keep the core (Horvat, Barzal, Romanov, Dobson and Holmstrom) and move out everyone else for futures then sign other players to short term prove it contracts. Let the prospects who are close to ready get a real shot during training camp to prove themselves then go from there. Not move out the higher end talent for a mediocre return that doesn’t benefit the team.

Everyone you wanna move out is not only not that good, but on NTCs. And frankly, you run into the problem this team has had for years: THE CORE SUCKS. It's not good. It's a bunch of second liners and second pair guys aside from Barzal and Dobson.

Turning Horvat, a 30 year old second line center, into a quality asset or two should be the goal this summer. Same with Romanov. That's how you get picks and prospects to expedite your rebuild.

Because the Isles are gonna stink no matter what next season, barring another Sorokin miracle and then the best case is, what, another 8th seed and first round demolition?

 

[miscs75]

I don't see us getting a good return by combining two core pieces for the 4th + _____. If you can't immediately identify that extra piece(s) that would make sense then it's definitely not worth doing this, you're probably going to get better value if you make separate deals.

Combining both just screams “never happy younger sibling” syndrome. We both know if they do that and tank, this team will wind up the 6th worst team next season and wind up picking 8th while 2 other teams moved up to #1/2 again like this draft did.

 

[seabass45]

Everyone you wanna move out is not only not that good, but on NTCs.

Turning Horvat, a 30 year old second line center, into a quality asset or two should be the goal this summer.

Horvat has a full NTC.

 

[miscs75]

Everyone you wanna move out is not only not that good, but on NTCs. And frankly, you run into the problem this team has had for years: THE CORE SUCKS. It's not good. It's a bunch of second liners and second pair guys aside from Barzal and Dobson.

Turning Horvat, a 30 year old second line center, into a quality asset or two should be the goal this summer. Same with Romanov. That's how you get picks and prospects to expedite your rebuild.

Because the Isles are gonna stink no matter what next season, barring another Sorokin miracle and then the best case is, what, another 8th seed and first round demolition?

This rebuild obsession once again is utterly stupid for this team. It’s going to be a 7 year project before this team even sniffs a playoff spot if they go this route and once again we’re back to being the 08-09 team bad for multiple years.

 

[Strickland]

I don't see us getting a good return by combining two core pieces for the 4th + _____. If you can't immediately identify that extra piece(s) that would make sense then it's definitely not worth doing this, you're probably going to get better value if you make separate deals.

Utah's 2026 first? One of their top prospects not named Iginla? (But, Beaudoin)

Even if the Isles are giving up more value than they're getting, it's fine if you're getting a quality asset in return. Hagens or Desnoyers or Frondell are quality assets IMO.

 

[seabass45]

Utah's 2026 first? One of their top prospects not named Iginla? (But, Beaudoin)

Even if the Isles are giving up more value than they're getting, it's fine if you're getting a quality asset in return. Hagens or Desnoyers or Frondell are quality assets IMO.

It's not fine, it's a misuse of assets. You should aim to maximize the return, especially if your plan is to burn it to the ground. And if we are unloading half our top four (with the other half getting older), I would say the plan to be a contender in two years is optimistic.

 

[Strickland]

It's not fine, it's a misuse of assets. You should aim to maximize the return, especially if your plan is to burn it to the ground. And if we are unloading half our top four (with the other half getting older), I would say the plan to be a contender in two years is optimistic.

Is it a misuse of assets? What could Horvat and Romanov get you in a trade on their own? More than what I'm suggesting?

And I don't see a two year window of rebuilding as especially optimistic. Get the fourth overall pick. Add Schaefer and Hagens/Desnoyers to your stable of prospects. None of them makes the team this year. Stink in 25-26. Add another elite talent at the top of the 2026 Draft (Roobreck would be fine, lol) and then start working these kids in. Get lucky again in 2027 and land DuPont? Man, that's a ton of talent coming in.

But you've gotta commit to a rebuild in the next few weeks, which this organization isn't gonna do.

 

[seabass45]

Is it a misuse of assets?

Well you admitted yourself that you're giving up more value than you're getting in return. So yes.

 

[StreetHawk]

I suspect Utah will make the pick at 4, but curious what opposing teams would offer up for this pick.

Utah's biggest need is a young 20s second-line center.

What is the logic of a team to trade a 24/25 year old C for an 18 year old prospect?

The arrival of this player is at least 1 year out, as Misa is heading to college. Schaefer needs to play as he missed half the season in the O. Martone is big enough to play. Hagens is more than likely returning to college.

You'd have to be embarking on a long rebuild. Like maybe Detroit with Larkin back in 2021 or 2022 off-season when he was 2 or 1 year away from UFA in 2023. But, they opted to keep and extend him. Larkin would have been 25/26 those years, so young, but nearing UFA soon.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Could see Boston trading up to #4 if Hagens is available.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Dobson for 4th in this draft seems pretty fair honestly.

Isles drafting Schaefer AND Hagens would be insane. I think if the Mammoths want ready to play roster players, and isles want Hagens at 4, it could certainly happen.

Dobson + seems like a good starting point.

Horvat has a full NTC.

Oh, Lou

of course he does..

 

[Mosby]

Zegras?

I doubt he's well liked in the Utah room dating back to the AZ days.

 

[Mosby]

4th is a great spot to draft a 2C. Would Utah want Hagens given the similarity between him and Cooley?

I think they'd go Desnoyers over Hagens.